Triband Halfmoons

[mohammad taufiq]

[bt][be] can anybody share your triband halfmoon? picture i mean:D

[Myron Tay]

Taufiq,

Guess it must be pretty rare. You working on this?

[mohammad taufiq]

ya!! u working on it also?? u selling hm???

[Myron Tay]

Nope, I am only in red HMs. Have currently two spawns going. Check back with me in Oct.

[Jonathan_Tan]

if u want some HM females with good finnage, i have them..also got to HM potential males..in the process of finning out

[mohammad taufiq]

myron, i'm working red also! i cross male ext red with opaque female!! wad are u working on? red&red? jonathan, thx for the promote will consider.......[^]

[Myron Tay]

How's this for inspiration, Taufiq? Currently available on Aquabid.

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/Myron Tay/20045594146_Triband HM.jpg

[Myron Tay]

How's this for inspiration, Taufiq? Currently available on Aquabid.

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/Myron Tay/20045594146_Triband HM.jpg

[Adrienne Kang]

OMG! MG BUTTERFLY?

[Adrienne Kang]

OMG! MG BUTTERFLY?

[Phil]

If the above is a Triband, Would this MGCT that I gave to Edwin be considered a Tri-band. To me it failed to make it as a CT proper.

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/phil%20ngo/2003821194141_P5210084.jpg

[Phil]

If the above is a Triband, Would this MGCT that I gave to Edwin be considered a Tri-band. To me it failed to make it as a CT proper.

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/phil%20ngo/2003821194141_P5210084.jpg

[terence tan]

wow. looks every part like a ct except the caudal fin. the caudal look more like hm to me, i heard of this definition call combtail, is this wat u would call combtail?

[terence tan]

wow. looks every part like a ct except the caudal fin. the caudal look more like hm to me, i heard of this definition call combtail, is this wat u would call combtail?

[Myron Tay]

I would simply term it as a less than ideal fringed finned betta. See the problem with calling them crowntails? The fringed finned effect does not only happen in the caudal fin...

quote:Originally posted by terence tan

wow. looks every part like a ct except the caudal fin. the caudal look more like hm to me, i heard of this definition call combtail, is this wat u would call combtail?

[Myron Tay]

I would simply term it as a less than ideal fringed finned betta. See the problem with calling them crowntails? The fringed finned effect does not only happen in the caudal fin...

quote:Originally posted by terence tan

wow. looks every part like a ct except the caudal fin. the caudal look more like hm to me, i heard of this definition call combtail, is this wat u would call combtail?

[Phil]

These are the heartaches and headaches that breeders have to go through. Just as when we thought we have the colors right, one part of the fish turns faulty and the fish has to be sidelined even from our breeding programme. However, when things turn out right, the joy and elation of the achievement, knows no boundaries.

[Phil]

These are the heartaches and headaches that breeders have to go through. Just as when we thought we have the colors right, one part of the fish turns faulty and the fish has to be sidelined even from our breeding programme. However, when things turn out right, the joy and elation of the achievement, knows no boundaries.

[Sebas]

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

How's this for inspiration, Taufiq? Currently available on Aquabid.

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/Myron Tay/20045594146_Triband HM.jpg


i dont find this piece attractive at all. Rare color variations, but the patterns are not well defined.

[Sebas]

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

How's this for inspiration, Taufiq? Currently available on Aquabid.

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/Myron Tay/20045594146_Triband HM.jpg


i dont find this piece attractive at all. Rare color variations, but the patterns are not well defined.

[Markus Gutzeit]

Hello,

here is a pic from a ealier male Rajiv and I used for breeding, it came out of the pink white line and goes back to our pink line from the year 2001. enjoy looking.

Triband Hm
http://photo.starblvd.net/~halfmoonbetta/2-2-1.jpg?

Butterfly pink white Hm
http://photo.starblvd.net/~halfmoonbetta/1-4-3.jpg?



Greetings
Markus Gutzeit

[Markus Gutzeit]

Hello,

here is a pic from a ealier male Rajiv and I used for breeding, it came out of the pink white line and goes back to our pink line from the year 2001. enjoy looking.

Triband Hm
http://photo.starblvd.net/~halfmoonbetta/2-2-1.jpg?

Butterfly pink white Hm
http://photo.starblvd.net/~halfmoonbetta/1-4-3.jpg?



Greetings
Markus Gutzeit

[Jonathan_Tan]

wow...
really nice..
but the BF patterns are quite hard to get for irids..
regular occurances are rare

[Jonathan_Tan]

wow...
really nice..
but the BF patterns are quite hard to get for irids..
regular occurances are rare

[Myron Tay]

Great job, Markus! Thanks for sharing.

[Myron Tay]

Great job, Markus! Thanks for sharing.

[terence tan]

wow.. very beautiful. wonder how much one of these will cost

[terence tan]

wow.. very beautiful. wonder how much one of these will cost

[mohammad taufiq]

wow!!!!!! really nice! thx myron n markus for sharing pics!!

[mohammad taufiq]

wow!!!!!! really nice! thx myron n markus for sharing pics!!

[Myron Tay]

Appeal for more halfmoon pictures (not just triband), please. These have the ability to inspire...

[Myron Tay]

Appeal for more halfmoon pictures (not just triband), please. These have the ability to inspire...

[mohammad taufiq]

haha will post abt diff colour....... but now breeding triband.....

[mohammad taufiq]

haha will post abt diff colour....... but now breeding triband.....

[mohammad taufiq]

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/mohammad taufiq/20039158345_fwbettasd1063667109.jpg

[Phil]

Taufiq I wouldn't call your betta a triband. Its just a delta with red wash.

[Lim khing Chong]

I think it is always good to start with the definition of triband.
Quoted from FAMA Feb 2003, Gene A Lucas refer them as having "three , rather than two bands of color in the fins " And as an IBC jargon to decribed your fish, you can use c1/c2/c3/c4 (where c1= body color , c2=innermost band color, c3= middle band color , c4= outermost band color ). For example Markus 's Triband as be called a green/green/red/white triband. For Taufiq, his fish can still classified as a Turqouise/Green/red/black triband (loosely speaking).Yet , he need to improved to get a more defined band of each colors on the fins.

Phil , you cannot totally label Taufiq's fish as a red washed fish. I would call a fish with red wash when it has full(100%)Spread iridescence(Si) and yet its fails to mask the underlying red totally, thus somes visble wash of reds still can be seened. Taufiq's fish is a fish with medium(50%) Si , not full.

[Phil]

Sorry Khing Chong, I have to disagree with you on that. Triband as it name implies are distinct bands of color. Tufiq's example has no distinct band to speak of, hence no matter how loosely used, should not be classified as a triband. There again you are entitled to your opinion, but i do find it inappropriate to classify the betta as a triband and do not wish to mislead our members into accepting it as a triband.

[Chris Yew]

It is very difficut to achieve a perfect triband. Usually one of the band is not distinct and is often located at the dorsal or anal fin. The perfect triband must have distinct 3 bands (1/3, 1/3, 1/3) on all the 3 major fins.

The betta shown posted by Tufiq is from the Aquabid. I would said that it's not a triband;

http://a3.cpimg.com/image/C1/06/23570113-bcfe-012700EE-.jpg

Markus's betta is a better illustration compared to the above. The only setback is the innermost band is not obvious in the anal fin;
http://a2.cpimg.com/image/C0/06/23570112-2d45-01D30187-.jpg

It is difficult to find one good illustration photo of a triband. Maybe this crowntail photo can help a bit (not mine, photo from CBS)
http://www.cbsbettas.org/show2003/images/fish_pics_gallery/images/P1010091.jpg

[walt parker]

I also agree that Taufiq's fish is not Triband.

[mohammad taufiq]

no.. i just want to highlight a faked triband....

[Phil]

That is goog Taufiq. Thanks for clearing the air. Yes that betta is certainly not a Triband and Chris has been trying to forewarn all of you about such fake claims being made.

quote:Originally posted by mohammad taufiq

no.. i just want to highlight a faked triband....

[Toh Chen Han]

So many pics posted and still no perfect triband! How challenging. To me the best specimens so far are the two posted by Markus. Particularly the 'butterfly pink white' cutie.

[Chris Yew]

The butterfly by Markus is a good one but triband still remain a challenge!<img src=images/icon_speech_sigh.gif border=0 width=27 height=15 alt=Insert Speech Icon: Sigh...>

quote:Originally posted by Toh Chen Han

So many pics posted and still no perfect triband! How challenging. To me the best specimens so far are the two posted by Markus. Particularly the 'butterfly pink white' cutie.

[Toh Chen Han]

Hehe, that one can be the Singapore National Halfmoon based on colour.

[Myron Tay]

A good triband betta would probably be one in tens of thousands. Or am I being optimistic? :D

[Toh Chen Han]

Take the best case scenario based on your estimation: 1 in 10,000.

Lets say an average spawn produces 330 fries - no death.

30 spawns to produce 1 piece of good triband?

Better get cracking guys!!! =)

[Chris Yew]

It may be difficult to get a real perfect triband halfmoon. Even not halfmoon triband is already difficult to achieve.

So what about a Dream Triband Halfmoon;
(Orig. Picture Credit from Ferrum Betta)
http://a8.cpimg.com/image/04/AD/23638788-d1e2-00D100D8-.jpg

[Myron Tay]

How about this one?

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/Myron Tay/200453125928_Triband Betta.jpg

[Markus Gutzeit]

Hello All,

when you put butterfly genes into your lines it will come out often in the spawns, but it had to be good one. here are some fishes from this year, this is the pure line I started with Rajiv pink muticolor male Hm and Leo Bus red female in 1998. Enjoy looking.

PS Like the print Chris Yew posted from Ferrum Betta, we had a view fishes with finnage like this print, but never this perfect coloration.

Greetings,
Markus

http://photo.starblvd.net/~halfmoonbetta/3-4-5.jpg

http://photo.starblvd.net/~halfmoonbetta/3-4-4.jpg

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by Lyon Goh

Anyone would be interested in getting a Salamanda Triband&gt;
I looked around and see that not many people are very into Tribands. Maybe its the difficulty in getting them


Lyon

I guess you are right in that it is difficult to achieve the perfect triband. Markus is one of the few who has successfully developed very good tribands.

[Lyon Goh]

Yes, from the above picture, it looks real great.
But as what he says, it seems to be easier to attain the Triband by putting butterfly genes. But have you ever thought of using Salamander or MG's color to create? Salamander and MG's color in the fins have already been spilt into 2 kind of colors. Just a little work more and you'll get them.
You see, Salamander has already red inside and blue outside. Why not add butterfly genes like what Markus did and you might red, blue and white?

[terence tan]

thats a good idea~ it crossed my mind too, i was thinking of the different possibilies and color combinations for tribands. i also observved that most tribands look like bf. but with an extra color

[Myron Tay]

Don't think it works quite as well as you propose Lyon because Salamanders and Mustard Gas already carry the variegated genes that creates the butterfly trait. You see, the gene actually affects the spread of certain colours on the fins but it does not determine the colour of the fish.

So for example, a blue and yellow fish (with blue being on a higher layer covering over the yellow lower layer) carrying the variegated gene would show a blue fish with some yellow on the fins. A similar blue and colourless fish (with blue overlaying the fish) carrying the variegated gene would show a blue fish with some part of the fins being clear.

The point is to create a fish with at least three colour layers and with the variegated genes working on each of the layers to expose the underlying colours in the correct proportion. It is an extremely difficult task (and hence the rarity of tribands) but one that could be done with selective breeding.

quote:Originally posted by Lyon Goh

Yes, from the above picture, it looks real great.
But as what he says, it seems to be easier to attain the Triband by putting butterfly genes. But have you ever thought of using Salamander or MG's color to create? Salamander and MG's color in the fins have already been spilt into 2 kind of colors. Just a little work more and you'll get them.
You see, Salamander has already red inside and blue outside. Why not add butterfly genes like what Markus did and you might red, blue and white?

[VictoriaParnell]

Hello everyone,

I'm relatively new here and haven't posted to this forum before, but couldn't help but follow this thread, since I've been working on a triband line as well. What do you think of this triband from Wasan?

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/VictoriaParnell/2003121614152_wasanflag2.jpg

[Myron Tay]

Victoria

Welcome to the forum. Thanks for sharing that very nice betta. You got it from Wasan? What triband are you working on?

[Lyon Goh]

quote:Originally posted by VictoriaParnell

Hello everyone,

I'm relatively new here and haven't posted to this forum before, but couldn't help but follow this thread, since I've been working on a triband line as well. What do you think of this triband from Wasan?

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/VictoriaParnell/2003121614152_wasanflag2.jpgHi and welcome
I personally feel that this betta from Wasan is real nice. All its fins are of triband color. Color wise is almost perfect

[VictoriaParnell]

Hi Myron,

I didn't get this one from Wasan, he sold it on Aquabid. If I remember correctly, it commanded a very good price. What I like about Wasan's fish (he calls them "Thai Flags") is that his finnage is excellent; there is good separation of color, particularly in the dorsal, and what could arguably be called a fourth band of white on the outermost edge. Ideally, the blue would be more clearly defined in the anal and caudal, but this is still one of my favorite photographs.

My own line is similar to this, and he and I enjoyed a laugh over it because we both arrived at this particular color/pattern by crossing blue marble to cambodian BF and taking it down a few generations. His are much better than mine, however, in both color and finnage. But I'm working on it! ;) Here is one that came out of my line; note the similarities in color.

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/VictoriaParnell/2003121794540_pat1.jpg

[Myron Tay]

Thanks for sharing Victoria.

Could you share with us a little bit more about the genetics of producing tribands? Am I anywhere close in what I had posted previously (reproduced below)?

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

Salamanders and Mustard Gas carry the variegated genes that creates the butterfly trait. The gene actually affects the spread of certain colours on the fins but it does not determine the colour of the fish.

So for example, a blue and yellow fish (with blue being on a higher layer covering over the yellow lower layer) carrying the variegated gene would show a blue fish with some yellow on the fins. A similar blue and colourless fish (with blue overlaying the fish) carrying the variegated gene would show a blue fish with some part of the fins being clear.

The point is to create a fish with at least three colour layers and with the variegated genes working on each of the layers to expose the underlying colours in the correct proportion. It is an extremely difficult task (and hence the rarity of tribands) but one that could be done with selective breeding.

[VictoriaParnell]

I don't think this type of triband is arrived at the same way as a MG or sala tri. Those tribands seem to often have blue/red bands in the fins finished off with a dark smoke or gray color. The only triband I've been able to get out of MG is the typical yellow/blue/white, with the white tending to be very transparent and not at all desireable.

The marble/cambo triband that I've been demonstrating is a bit different. The first band of blue seems to be an extension of the marbling on the body that increases in width and color as the fish matures. Here is a photo of one of these when it is young (this one is about 2 months old), note the first hints at a third band close to the body, and a marbled grizz starting on the scales:

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/VictoriaParnell/20031217104724_youngtriband.jpg

As the fins grow, the bands broaden so the overall appearance of the fish is of three distinct lines of color. I really feel the marble factor is instrumental in producing this type of triband. I've worked until I'm blue in the face trying to stablize iridiocyte triband, to no avail. It seems to just happen randomly in certain variegated lines.