Delta x Crowntail

[Chris Yew]

Well most newbies like to ask these question, and I suggest not to try it unless you wish to have more fishes to cull. I've done that as blue is not my favourite color and that's my onli 2 blues, lol!

In fact, I've heard from Victor (midicity) that he got a very good caudal spread STM by spawning a delta x DDR CT female. He attributes it to the DDR Female as DR may not give you a better result.

Here's my results;

1. Royal Blue STM
2.5 mths old. Out of the 100+ fries in the spawn, this one is the best. Color more like purple than royal blue. Having very good caudal spread. See the close up view of caudal.

http://pic1.picturetrail.com/VOL125/640119/1026656/11927411.jpg

2. Same fish with Flash
http://pic1.picturetrail.com/VOL125/640119/1026656/11929915.jpg

3. Same fish at 1.5mths old
http://pic1.picturetrail.com/VOL125/640119/1026656/11929917.jpg

4. Steel Blue STM
This is the second best Steel Blue STM in the same spawn. Not as good as the Royal blue one as the caudal fins are with pointed rays, but very good split too.
http://pic1.picturetrail.com/VOL125/640119/1026656/11929923.jpg

5. Blue DR CT Female
This is the best female DR CT from the same spawn.
http://pic1.picturetrail.com/VOL125/640119/1026656/11929927.jpg

6. The Father
The father of the spawn is a Royal Blue STM from Straits.
http://pic1.picturetrail.com/VOL125/640119/1026656/11929929.jpg

7. The Mother
The mother of the spawn is a DDR CT though not a very good and completely DDR!
http://pic1.picturetrail.com/VOL125/640119/1026656/11929945.jpg

Chris Yew

[Foo Hong]

I ve not done much for CT as I am mostly into delta/HM.

So for you guys who had crossed delta x CT, What is the outcome in yr F1, F2 etc.

What % of fries look like CT , or delta, or inbetween type. Are the CTs with long rays or short, are there deltas which hardly show any sign of teh CT trait?

[Chris Yew]

I've done 2 delta x CT spawn so far.

1st Spawn : A butterfly STM x Blue DR CT female -
Results - Half of it a CT with reasonable rays extension and the rest are mainly combtail. A few mutli-colour deltas.

2nd Spawn : Royal Blue STM x Blue DDR CT female -
Results - 2/3 are combtails like delta (all culled), the rest are CT with good rays extension but multi-color (also culled) and only 2 to 3 pcs of delta (as shown on the pic).

Both are F1 - for 2nd Spawn intend to proceed on to F2 to see. Both spawns showed strongly the CT traits for majority of the spawn. Probably this proves the theory of finnage will follow that of the female and color follow the male.

quote:
I ve not done much for CT as I am mostly into delta/HM.

So for you guys who had crossed delta x CT, What is the outcome in yr F1, F2 etc.

What % of fries look like CT , or delta, or inbetween type. Are the CTs with long rays or short, are there deltas which hardly show any sign of teh CT trait?




Chris Yew

[Foo Hong]

Are the 'deltas' showing 'serrated' edges.

[Chris Yew]

I'm going to buy a pc of sandpaper to get it done, lol!

quote:
Are the 'deltas' showing 'serrated' edges.






Chris Yew

[Foo Hong]

Ohhhh...bless you and your brother betta!

[Myron Tay]

For those who want to know the development of SD X Crowntails (with the intent of getting crowntails) should look at the development of Phil MGCT on this thread (which is awesome. Thanks Phil): http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1051

[Myron Tay]

For those who want to know the development of SD X Crowntails (with the intent of getting crowntails) should look at the development of Phil MGCT on this thread (which is awesome. Thanks Phil): http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1051

[Myron Tay]

On the basis of Phil's photo journal mentioned above, can we say that the crowntail (actually it is more appropriate to call them fringed fins since the trait is not only prevelant in the tail)gene is dominant over the longtail (non-fringed fins) form?

If so, we should not cross any sibilings of delta X crowntail if we intend to maintain a delta (non-fringed fins)?

[Myron Tay]

On the basis of Phil's photo journal mentioned above, can we say that the crowntail (actually it is more appropriate to call them fringed fins since the trait is not only prevelant in the tail)gene is dominant over the longtail (non-fringed fins) form?

If so, we should not cross any sibilings of delta X crowntail if we intend to maintain a delta (non-fringed fins)?

[Lim Aik Seng]

wat if the male is a ct
but the female is a delta

[William Chuo]

Have done a few CT x Delta.

My experience is if male is Delta, U get less crown dont know why. About 40%
the rest are all comb tail (or very lousy quality crown at least to me)
Did a turqoiuse Super Delta and a RB crown tail female. Very bad combo.

But a male CT against female delta, i get more pertange of crown tail.
the offspring resemble more of the dad.
Chocolate male CT x VF female.
but the result is still less than ideal.

Good enuff as christmas gift to your colleagues, but not worth the effort to continue breeding.

Again its only one time experience for each cross, so cant say its conclusive.
(I used to believe finnage depends more on the female)

[Lim Aik Seng]

ok sure

[William Chuo]

oops

forget to mentioned both crosses throws out
a few round tail with serrated edges.

[Myron Tay]

There is no known difference. Maybe it is because no one has really done a study on this.

quote:Originally posted by Lim Aik Seng

wat if the male is a ct
but the female is a delta

[Phil]

Hi Guys,

Sorry only saw this thread. I believe that with your first crossing, you can really go either way. The choice is yours whether you intend to pursue a CT line or a HM line. Let us call what you get as experimental spawn. If you intend to pursue CT line then of course you would choose those fries with CT triats and work on them. Don't expect miracles you will probably have to work from combtails. For HM the reverse is true. Choose those with minimal ray extension and use them. But you will need to dilute them at least twice more with either CT or HM again (depending on your choice) before even thinking of doing F1 or F2. It is really a very taxing affair and you will need at least a year to really get back online. Hence the question? Why would you want to do it? Is there a better alternative? I would do it basically to get colour, that are not available, but what about you?

[Alex Lim]

Hi all,

sorry to revive this old thread. i've three of these fellas so i was wondering what STM means in full? any breeding between a CT & SD will result in these is it? my friend has quite a successful experiment (though small spawn) with these and many possessed nice finnage spreads. will take a pic of my fellas to show once a di-cam is available.

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by George Giang

Hi guys,

What sort of result can I get from crossing Deltas to Crowns?

A lot of discussion is focused on colours, but not on finnages.
George

Believe your question belongs on this thread?

[George Giang]

Thanks for the info guys. Very informative.

[sylwester]

Interesting...

I'm currently crossing a 5-branch HM male with at DR delta CT and I expect deltas hatching today. I'm betting my $$ on F2 or F3 for a couple of interesting fish. I guess fringed finns will appear in F2 and I hope to have good spread in F3, hopefullly CT, alltough I'm not expecting halfsuns.. I'll make it a thread if I succed.

Chris: Did you do the F2 spawn? What was the result of it?

[George Giang]

So a lot has to do with randomness, a bit of luck, if you cross two different finnages.

What about for pures? I'm assuming that
DT + DT = DT
SD + SD = SD

so on and so forth...?
[hlp]

[Myron Tay]

DTs are caused by a single gene. But good DTs are a result of multi-factoral traits.

Similarly, fringed fins is probably caused by a single gene. But to get a good CT, there are multi-factoral traits to consider.

Pure-irridescent SDs have been worked on for many, many generations and their spawnings are more predictable. This is because most of the multifactoral traits that produce good irridescent SDs have already been fixed into these lines. You might not get the same results if you would on some less developed lines like orange or gold. Takes a lot of effort and several generations to fix those multifactoral traits.

[sylwester]

My cross is actually between a HM ST male and a ST CT delta. I belive it's less complex genetics involved to get a fish classified as CT (any spread) than HM. Getting the combination HM CT (i.e. the IBC ideal CT) I guess takes a lot of work and generations. If I back-cross to the father I think I will get HM's, with some with fringed finns genoes and if I backcross with the female I will get some CT which may throw offspring with wider spread, but probably not as good as a SD.

I think it's nice that it's difficult and complex. If it was as easy as mendelian genetics I don't think it would have been so interesting to work with.

[derrick kuah]

HI ,
JUst a words of causion.If you are working , to get ct then Its ok but if its for hm(strengtening the rays of caudals) then you have to be very careful.Once the ct genes is in the lines , they are very diffecult to get rid(it) off.You can have perfect caudals finnages in f2 , f3 but suddenly somewhere along the line, you will get, those ct hm(not here nor there ct)of combtail.I lost a few lines caused of same.THese fishes showed perfect caudals when young but as they get older, you were get all those little rays all over the finnages..%$#@##

[sylwester]

Thanks for the warning..

I'm breeding to get good CT's somewhere down the line so I have no worries about that.

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by erickoh

Just whether wat will happen if i use a HM female to breed with a CT male & of different colour? has any topic been discussed before on this? like the different combination of betta produce wat kind of offspring/colour etc......
quote:Originally posted by sylwester

The offspring of HM x CT will most likely give just the spread of the crowntail with the crowntail look of the HM. If you HM has fringes fins you will get comb. Getting CT treats back is easier than getting HM shape.

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by leong chang yuan

hi..jus wonderin wat would i get if i cross a male CT with a female HM???
Hi

Trust this thread answers your query.