Genetic dominance related to Gender?

[imported_n/a]

Hi to all,

this is my 1st post here so be gentle, eh! I have a basic question for the seniors. In breeding, the resultant fries adopts more of the male or female genes, specifically which ones? For instance if I were to cross a yellow male VT with a blue female Super-Delta, majority of the fries will end up as what? Yellow VT, blue VT, yellow SD, blue SD or food for LuoHans?

I suspect the male colour and female finnage takes precedence. Don't tell me to experiment. I have already suffered enough from a multi-coloured plakat-look-alike CT male x black CT female. I nearly cried when I had to let them all go down the bank of Lorong Halus mini-river. My only consolation was their misery has finally ended.

Thks in advance.

[Dr Hsu]

Hi Dick,

We have discussed this topic somewhere in this forum before, just can't offhand remember where. Think we didn't really come to any conclusions for male or female being more dominant. I think general consensus was that female influences finnage more than male, and color tends to follow male more...?? this is what I am tending to think nowadays.

However, this is in no way anyway close to certain, especially is you do not know the backgound of your fish. If you know the background of both parents to maybe grand/great grandparents, and you know both line's characteristics, then you may be relatively certain of how your spawn will turn out.

IMO, forget about crossing to VT lines - it can only deprove (is there such a word????) finnage and if it's the color you're going after, then plan on going to F2 or more to get it as F1 is more than likely to give you multis due to the mixed genetic background of VTs.


Regards,

Li Chieh

"Good judgement is based on experience, and much of that is based on prior bad judgement!"
"The more I know, the more I know that there is more that I don't know!"

[Chris Yew]

Hi Dick,

Welcome here. BTW, I guess this topic should be more appropriate to post under Genetics rather than Breeding.

Here's what I think;

Answer : Multi-Colour.
F1 will be Multi-Colour, and also depending on the irridescene of the Yellow betta. You may also get either Blue, Steel or Green; all with dark body. All are yellow & cambodian geno. This are the results when your original fish do not have any other genes. F2 may produce some Multi-Colour and Solid.

You may also see my colour chart at (may not be 100% accurate ha!);
http://bettasonli.netfirms.com/article3.html

BTW, what colour are you trying to achieve by crossing yellow x blue? Mustard Gas? Why use VT, while there are so many super deltas to choose from?

Chris Yew



quote:
Hi to all,

this is my 1st post here so be gentle, eh! I have a basic question for the seniors. In breeding, the resultant fries adopts more of the male or female genes, specifically which ones? For instance if I were to cross a yellow male VT with a blue female Super-Delta, majority of the fries will end up as what? Yellow VT, blue VT, yellow SD, blue SD or food for LuoHans?

I suspect the male colour and female finnage takes precedence. Don't tell me to experiment. I have already suffered enough from a multi-coloured plakat-look-alike CT male x black CT female. I nearly cried when I had to let them all go down the bank of Lorong Halus mini-river. My only consolation was their misery has finally ended.

Thks in advance.

[Foo Hong]

I ve dont this colour combo out of experimentation. they ended up as bird food.

you get 100% dark multis. however, if yr irids fish carry cambodian, you will get some camb reds too. I reckon the yellow fish , which is free of the 3 top colour layers, essentially wipes of the irids, either fully or partially, exposing the more of the red and black pigmeent layers.

Form wise, I ve tried good male to shitty females n vice versa. no confirmation , but seems female more dominant in form, male colour....similar to orchid hybridixzation. Thats why HM females are so precious, youmust buy insurance.

[imported_n/a]

Looks like I will have to hunt for a GOOOD female for superior finnage. Really regret missing the opportunity at Ah San's `open farm'.

[Foo Hong]

Ah san s fishes are 90% from Hawaii. You can get some on aquabid if you r desperate. but do see/check/see/check properly before you bid.

And its also not cheap by the time you include other costs.

[imported_n/a]

I'm still learning how to crawl. Aquabid sounds too exotic and futuristic. I need to get my fundamentals right first. Anyway, been picking up little nuggets here and there. Seems like some `experienced Lao-Chiaos' have more than a few rabbits tucked up their sleeves. Have been wondering why some people can achieve HMs from spawns so effortlessly and others can die trying.

[Foo Hong]

No rabbits in the sleeves or chickens in our trousers. Its just sheer hardwork, work like the Bangladesh foreign workers, day n night.

However, getting a reasonable line to start off with does cut short your time and save you a lot of work cos you re basically carrying on from where the guy you bought bettas from have achieved so far. Thereafter you just have to spawn/select/cull over and over.

Do you know how many pairings/spawns of irids, opaques Ive done to date over the last 2 years? including spawns that die or are abandoned, etc.

[Myron Tay]

Very interested to know. How many?

quote:
Do you know how many pairings/spawns of irids, opaques Ive done to date over the last 2 years? including spawns that die or are abandoned, etc.

[Foo Hong]

Cant remember exact. Irids about 15 to 20 spawns all in all.

opaques - about 10 or 12 hehehehe.....

mind you some of these did not turn out desirable so those particular lines were discountinued. A lot of experimentation. Some times you need to find that correct pairing. Once you got the right ones, then you need to line breed/in breed. Will talk about all these on the 'halfmoon' thread.

[Samuel Phan]

That many har???
I have been spawning my betta for the past one year and have also clocked more than 10 to 15 spawns and have yet to find a line that I am truely satisfied with.

I supposed I am still looking ofr my niche in the betta arena.

Now spawning: Irids, Orange, Reds, Marbles.

quote:
Cant remember exact. Irids about 15 to 20 spawns all in all.

opaques - about 10 or 12 hehehehe.....

mind you some of these did not turn out desirable so those particular lines were discountinued. A lot of experimentation. Some times you need to find that correct pairing. Once you got the right ones, then you need to line breed/in breed. Will talk about all these on the 'halfmoon' thread.




Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Foo Hong]

Just to further my observations on dominancy of male / female in passing on form/finnage, colour etc

My latest opaque spawn. Lewin x goettner F4 spawn.
male= perfect colour white. even pectoral fins are flushed. 8 rays, caudal not a Hm shape , about 150 and slightly curved egdes. but his brothers had i or 2 fish that were HM[perfect]. didnt use them bcos the hm were not clean in white.
female = perfect white, best inb spawn with 4 rays, 6 in some case. she spreads about 170 fully.
result of spawn = 2 months now. spawn about 50-60 fishes only. so far about 4 to 5 males show HM or near[when I say HM its 180 or 0ver and show at least 4 rays in the caudal and 2 rays in the dorsal n anal fins]. I havent checked all the females but look slike there may be 3 to 5 with a possibility to look like their mummy.

All fishes white to matt white in some with some[less than 5] showing bits of red in the ventrals, but gradually lossing it due to red losses. Based on rough calculations, % of desirable fishes for working the line is about 15% approx.

Will update again when the final results are certain
---------------------------
MG x Turq HM
male = 1st place winner [ 16 rays ] . solid green.
female = poor finnage [ UJ line]/ tail roundish but great colour.
spawn = still 1.5mths and small. all multicolours. no HM spotted this stage. at same size, the opqaue spawn above showed better appearnace

conclusion?