Balanced Diet for Bettas

[Myron Tay]

Believe that this question deserves a new thread:

Can anybody in this forum throw some light on what constitutes a balanced diet for bettas?

[Samuel Phan]

How about :

Morning feed daphnia
Afternoon feed tubifex/beef-heart
Then night time feed blood worms

So it is like fruits for breakfast, heavy lunch follow by a light dinner.

Sound good huh?

But to be frank ... it is probably more healthy to feed the betta as mentioned above then to feed pure tubifex worms.

Any experts out there with more scientific answers to the above question?

Dr Hsu?

With Best Regards,
Samuel Phan


quote:
Believe that this questions deserves a new thread:

Can anybody in this forum throw some light on what constitute a balance diet for betta?






Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Myron Tay]

Generally, yes, more variety is better, but there should be an optimum level. Their wild cousins would probably survive on a diet of basically mosquito larve, adult mosquitoes, tubifex worms, bloodworms, daphnia and all sorts of prey you can find in a freshwater environment.

However, we would need to balance variety with practicality. So the real question is what is optimum, given practical considerations? I would hazard a guess that it is probably about 3 to 4 different types.

quote:
How about :

Morning feed daphnia
Afternoon feed tubifex/beef-heart
Then night time feed blood worms

So it is like fruits for breakfast, heavy lunch follow by a light dinner.

Sound good huh?

But to be frank ... it is probably more healthy to feed the betta as mentioned above then to feed pure tubifex worms.

Any experts out there with more scientific answers to the above question?

Dr Hsu?

With Best Regards,
Samuel Phan


quote:
Believe that this questions deserves a new thread:

Can anybody in this forum throw some light on what constitute a balance diet for betta?






Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Myron Tay]

Time to resurrect this discussion again.

Most of us only feed one or two different types of food. Is this optimum for the development of our prized bettas?

[Foo Hong]

No...

In fact many of us tend to feed the type that fits the age of bettas...usually in this order...

bbs, moina, Tubifex , tubifex & BW.

Each type of food is feed over extend weeks till the next, often more conveniently available can be fed....

Try feeding in this manner to yr pet dogs n hamsters and Dr Hsu will use a dog bone and knock some sense into your brain..ekeke

Certain foods should also be used minimally.....eg, Tubifex.

[Myron Tay]

Dr Hsu

Would you concur, given that there are carnivores who specialise in certain types of meat (e.g. cheetah specialises in the gazalle) and obtain most of their nutrition from a few meat sources? Some might argue that bettas specialise in mosquito larvae!

[Myron Tay]

Any one with further thoughts on this pet subject of mine. I have introduced dried foods (with supplementary vitamins) to my bettas and they are looking better than ever. I would however caution that dried foods should be used to supplement your bettas diet and should not become the staple.

Anyone with a different view?

[ernest seow]

Given that bettas live in still waters and they have specialised labyrinths to allow them to live in water with very little dissolved oxygen. Bettas evolved from such and their breeding habits suits such an environment. Mosies seek same water conditions to lay their eggs and the larvaes thrive there. Add all these factors into your equation and walah, your conclusion is absolutely correct that Bettas specialise on ML's but then again the same can be said of guppies which are hardy and can be found everywhere there is water fresh water.

Needless to say other creatures abound in this water conditions too, and naturally, bettas will feed on these too. Therefore their diet is not fully 100% ML.

[Myron Tay]

Feed as much variety of foods that you can find and supplement your betta's dietary intake with dried foods containing essential vitamins. Personally, I would advocate frozen food such as frozen blood worms and brine shrimp (which are fresher than dried food but will not introduce nasties like live food). However, you should feed small portions regularly (enough so that the fish can finish up the food within five minutes). Otherwise, the uneaten food would introduce more ammonia into the system as it rots. I would also advocate dried foods; the more the merrier. A good one would be Momizi Tropical (blue packaging).

Special note: I really feel that we should abstain from feeding live foods to our prized breeders, unless there is a cheap efficient way of thoroughly cleaning them before introduction. The reasoning is that the individual tank environment in which we house our prized breeders is a relatively closed environment. Once nasties are introduced into the environment, chances are they would stay there. And all it takes is for your bettas to be slightly stressed (for one reason or another) and you would have problems. Frozen and dried foods have worked for me and have given me minimal problems so far.

[Kelvin Tan]

hi

just wondering how much better/longer betta would ilve with balanced diet. mine get pure bloodowrm diet after jarring. oldest probably lived beyond 2 years but usually deterioriate after 1.5yrs but can still sustain till 2 yrs.

[Myron Tay]

Kelvin

Not so much longevity. More about brilliance and vibrancy of fish. And breaking of caudal fins. In my experience, these are very diet-dependent.

quote:Originally posted by Kelvin Tan

hi

just wondering how much better/longer betta would ilve with balanced diet. mine get pure bloodowrm diet after jarring. oldest probably lived beyond 2 years but usually deterioriate after 1.5yrs but can still sustain till 2 yrs.

[Alex Lim]

myron,

how do you train all your fellas to have a balanced diet? i.e they will readily accept all food you give them, be it live, dried and frozen?

[Myron Tay]

Alex

One of the advantages of being a breeder is that you can train your bettas from young! I use Hikari Frozen Blood Worms, Hikari Frozen Brine Shrimp and Momizi Dried Tropical Food. I am also always trying out new dried foods but so far these have proven to be their favourites. I have read that there is not enough variety you can feed your fish with, hence my constant experimenting.

[Alex Lim]

myron,

u feed them mulit-diet from 2 weeks onwards? how long do you rotate after one kind food?

[Myron Tay]

Alex

I feed them microworms from the day they are free-swimming and then introduce newly hatched baby brine shrimp a couple of days later. I try to give them a little bit of each type of food every day thereafter.
I subsequently introduce them to Momizi when their mouths are big enough, and rotate those with microworms and baby brine shrimp. I introduce the frozen brine shrimp and bloodworms when their mouths are large enough, gradually phasing out the baby brine shrimp and microworms in the process.

[Alex Lim]

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

Alex

I feed them microworms from the day they are free-swimming and then introduce newly hatched baby brine shrimp a couple of days later. I try to give them a little bit of each type of food every day thereafter.
I subsequently introduce them to Momizi when their mouths are big enough, and rotate those with microworms and baby brine shrimp. I introduce the frozen brine shrimp and bloodworms when their mouths are large enough, gradually phasing out the baby brine shrimp and microworms in the process.

Myron,

sorry with this dumb question.. just got back 3 1-week old fries from a friend what am i supposed to feed them with other than microworms? can use infurosia? i threw in the artemia but can't see clearly if they are eating it. please advise. [hlp]

[Alex Lim]

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

Alex

I feed them microworms from the day they are free-swimming and then introduce newly hatched baby brine shrimp a couple of days later. I try to give them a little bit of each type of food every day thereafter.
I subsequently introduce them to Momizi when their mouths are big enough, and rotate those with microworms and baby brine shrimp. I introduce the frozen brine shrimp and bloodworms when their mouths are large enough, gradually phasing out the baby brine shrimp and microworms in the process.

Myron,

sorry with this dumb question.. just got back 3 1-week old fries from a friend what am i supposed to feed them with other than microworms? can use infurosia? i threw in the artemia but can't see clearly if they are eating it. please advise. [hlp]

[Myron Tay]

Alex

I would advise feeding them newly hatched baby brine shrimp and gradually weaning them to Momizi or Cyclop-eeze.

quote:Originally posted by Alex Lim

quote:Originally posted by Alex Lim


Myron,

sorry with this dumb question.. just got back 3 1-week old fries from a friend what am i supposed to feed them with other than microworms? can use infurosia? i threw in the artemia but can't see clearly if they are eating it. please advise. [hlp]

[Myron Tay]

Alex

I would advise feeding them newly hatched baby brine shrimp and gradually weaning them to Momizi or Cyclop-eeze.

quote:Originally posted by Alex Lim

quote:Originally posted by Alex Lim


Myron,

sorry with this dumb question.. just got back 3 1-week old fries from a friend what am i supposed to feed them with other than microworms? can use infurosia? i threw in the artemia but can't see clearly if they are eating it. please advise. [hlp]

[imported_n/a]

Anyone tried Tetra brand daphnia? Its kind of jelly form I think. I saw it on the store shelf.

Right now, my fish is willing to take freeze dry blood worms, brine shrimp treat and pellets (I pound the pellets). Just bought some freeze dry tubifex. Have not try yet.

[imported_n/a]

Anyone tried Tetra brand daphnia? Its kind of jelly form I think. I saw it on the store shelf.

Right now, my fish is willing to take freeze dry blood worms, brine shrimp treat and pellets (I pound the pellets). Just bought some freeze dry tubifex. Have not try yet.

[imported_n/a]

quote:Originally posted by Yeo Huat Hian

Anyone tried Tetra brand daphnia? Its kind of jelly form I think. I saw it on the store shelf.

Right now, my fish is willing to take freeze dry blood worms, brine shrimp treat and pellets (I pound the pellets). Just bought some freeze dry tubifex. Have not try yet.


Bought the Tetra brand jelly type daphnia. Though it is quite expensive, I can't finish feeding even half a small packet for 4 fishes. There are 16 packets in a box. And my fishes simply love it. Recommend you to try it. Think it save the trouble of getting live daphnia for people like me who have trouble getting them.

[imported_n/a]

quote:Originally posted by Yeo Huat Hian

Anyone tried Tetra brand daphnia? Its kind of jelly form I think. I saw it on the store shelf.

Right now, my fish is willing to take freeze dry blood worms, brine shrimp treat and pellets (I pound the pellets). Just bought some freeze dry tubifex. Have not try yet.


Bought the Tetra brand jelly type daphnia. Though it is quite expensive, I can't finish feeding even half a small packet for 4 fishes. There are 16 packets in a box. And my fishes simply love it. Recommend you to try it. Think it save the trouble of getting live daphnia for people like me who have trouble getting them.

[Myron Tay]

Way to go, Huat Hian. Will certainly try them! In any case, I would not recommend feeding them only daphnia, no matter how much they like them. Good to give your bettas more variety.

quote:Originally posted by Yeo Huat Hian

quote:Originally posted by Yeo Huat Hian

Anyone tried Tetra brand daphnia? Its kind of jelly form I think. I saw it on the store shelf.

Right now, my fish is willing to take freeze dry blood worms, brine shrimp treat and pellets (I pound the pellets). Just bought some freeze dry tubifex. Have not try yet.


Bought the Tetra brand jelly type daphnia. Though it is quite expensive, I can't finish feeding even half a small packet for 4 fishes. There are 16 packets in a box. And my fishes simply love it. Recommend you to try it. Think it save the trouble of getting live daphnia for people like me who have trouble getting them.

[Myron Tay]

Way to go, Huat Hian. Will certainly try them! In any case, I would not recommend feeding them only daphnia, no matter how much they like them. Good to give your bettas more variety.

quote:Originally posted by Yeo Huat Hian

quote:Originally posted by Yeo Huat Hian

Anyone tried Tetra brand daphnia? Its kind of jelly form I think. I saw it on the store shelf.

Right now, my fish is willing to take freeze dry blood worms, brine shrimp treat and pellets (I pound the pellets). Just bought some freeze dry tubifex. Have not try yet.


Bought the Tetra brand jelly type daphnia. Though it is quite expensive, I can't finish feeding even half a small packet for 4 fishes. There are 16 packets in a box. And my fishes simply love it. Recommend you to try it. Think it save the trouble of getting live daphnia for people like me who have trouble getting them.

[Ong Ginyew]

quote:Originally posted by Yeo Huat Hian

quote:Originally posted by Yeo Huat Hian

Anyone tried Tetra brand daphnia? Its kind of jelly form I think. I saw it on the store shelf.

Right now, my fish is willing to take freeze dry blood worms, brine shrimp treat and pellets (I pound the pellets). Just bought some freeze dry tubifex. Have not try yet.


Bought the Tetra brand jelly type daphnia. Though it is quite expensive, I can't finish feeding even half a small packet for 4 fishes. There are 16 packets in a box. And my fishes simply love it. Recommend you to try it. Think it save the trouble of getting live daphnia for people like me who have trouble getting them.



where did u get it from?

[Ong Ginyew]

quote:Originally posted by Yeo Huat Hian

quote:Originally posted by Yeo Huat Hian

Anyone tried Tetra brand daphnia? Its kind of jelly form I think. I saw it on the store shelf.

Right now, my fish is willing to take freeze dry blood worms, brine shrimp treat and pellets (I pound the pellets). Just bought some freeze dry tubifex. Have not try yet.


Bought the Tetra brand jelly type daphnia. Though it is quite expensive, I can't finish feeding even half a small packet for 4 fishes. There are 16 packets in a box. And my fishes simply love it. Recommend you to try it. Think it save the trouble of getting live daphnia for people like me who have trouble getting them.



where did u get it from?

[imported_n/a]

quote:Originally posted by Ong Ginyew

quote:Originally posted by Yeo Huat Hian

quote:Originally posted by Yeo Huat Hian

Anyone tried Tetra brand daphnia? Its kind of jelly form I think. I saw it on the store shelf.

Right now, my fish is willing to take freeze dry blood worms, brine shrimp treat and pellets (I pound the pellets). Just bought some freeze dry tubifex. Have not try yet.


Bought the Tetra brand jelly type daphnia. Though it is quite expensive, I can't finish feeding even half a small packet for 4 fishes. There are 16 packets in a box. And my fishes simply love it. Recommend you to try it. Think it save the trouble of getting live daphnia for people like me who have trouble getting them.



where did u get it from?


From the normal fish shop. I got mine from Jurongpoint. The shop is just outside the shopping mall.

[imported_n/a]

quote:Originally posted by Ong Ginyew

quote:Originally posted by Yeo Huat Hian

quote:Originally posted by Yeo Huat Hian

Anyone tried Tetra brand daphnia? Its kind of jelly form I think. I saw it on the store shelf.

Right now, my fish is willing to take freeze dry blood worms, brine shrimp treat and pellets (I pound the pellets). Just bought some freeze dry tubifex. Have not try yet.


Bought the Tetra brand jelly type daphnia. Though it is quite expensive, I can't finish feeding even half a small packet for 4 fishes. There are 16 packets in a box. And my fishes simply love it. Recommend you to try it. Think it save the trouble of getting live daphnia for people like me who have trouble getting them.



where did u get it from?


From the normal fish shop. I got mine from Jurongpoint. The shop is just outside the shopping mall.

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by Ong Ginyew

quote:Originally posted by Yeo Huat Hian

quote:Originally posted by Yeo Huat Hian

Anyone tried Tetra brand daphnia? Its kind of jelly form I think. I saw it on the store shelf.

Right now, my fish is willing to take freeze dry blood worms, brine shrimp treat and pellets (I pound the pellets). Just bought some freeze dry tubifex. Have not try yet.


Bought the Tetra brand jelly type daphnia. Though it is quite expensive, I can't finish feeding even half a small packet for 4 fishes. There are 16 packets in a box. And my fishes simply love it. Recommend you to try it. Think it save the trouble of getting live daphnia for people like me who have trouble getting them.



where did u get it from?


I have difficulty locating these too. :(

[Myron Tay]

Here's what I feed my fish:

Frozen Bloodworms
Frozen Brine Shrimp
Momizi Tropical Dried Food
Cyclop-eeze

[VictoriaParnell]

One of the best betta foods I discovered by accident is fruit fly larvae. Like lots of people, I would sometimes get maggots in my microworm cultures, and would throw them out in disgust. One day I decided to try feeding some to a group of 3-week-olds that weren't terribly important to me. Not only did they love the fly larvae, they thrived, getting nearly twice the size of their counterparts of comparable age. Since then I purposely allow at least one worm culture to get infested with fruit flies so I always have some larvae on hand. They come in different sizes, for different-aged bettas. Lots of protein and fats, so I would only recommend one feeding a day of this stuff.

So I do fly larvae in the morning (one or two does the trick), daphnia or frozen/FD bbs at midday, and frozen/FD bloodworms at night. Twice a week they get crumbled sun-dried freshwater shrimp to aid in digestion. In the warmer months, I culture mosquito larvae to feed to growing fry. All my fish are fasted every Friday.

I've never tried it myself, but I am thinking of using frozen beef heart. Anyone have any experiences with it?

[Alex Lim]

Assuming that we have aplenty live food sources with no restrictions at all, feeding them with such but varied (e.g mosquito larvaes, MWs, fruit fry maggots, smaller fishes), would it be considered a "balance diet"?

[imported_n/a]

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

quote:Originally posted by Ong Ginyew

quote:Originally posted by Yeo Huat Hian

quote:Originally posted by Yeo Huat Hian

Anyone tried Tetra brand daphnia? Its kind of jelly form I think. I saw it on the store shelf.

Right now, my fish is willing to take freeze dry blood worms, brine shrimp treat and pellets (I pound the pellets). Just bought some freeze dry tubifex. Have not try yet.


Bought the Tetra brand jelly type daphnia. Though it is quite expensive, I can't finish feeding even half a small packet for 4 fishes. There are 16 packets in a box. And my fishes simply love it. Recommend you to try it. Think it save the trouble of getting live daphnia for people like me who have trouble getting them.



where did u get it from?


I have difficulty locating these too. :(


C328 selling.

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by Alex Lim

Assuming that we have aplenty live food sources with no restrictions at all, feeding them with such but varied (e.g mosquito larvaes, MWs, fruit fry maggots, smaller fishes), would it be considered a "balanced diet"?
Alex

I am of the view that there is never enough variety of good, clean (free from disease) food you can feed your bettas with. Because of this, I am sure that we can provide our bettas with more balanced a diet that they could otherwise get in the wild.
However, I resist feeding foods whose natural size does not fit the betta's mouth. This is because of the extra effort to ensure that the chunks of food does not get too big so as to choke the betta. Just my two cents.

[Alex Lim]

Actually, i've fed my fellas with baby guppies and platys (commonly known as "ang he" or red fishes) before. they really enjoyed it, seriously if given a choice and cheapo prices, i might consider giving them weekly treats such as this. these kind of prey really make them work for their meal instead of waiting around.

[Bond]

quote:Originally posted by VictoriaParnell

One of the best betta foods I discovered by accident is fruit fly larvae. Like lots of people, I would sometimes get maggots in my microworm cultures, and would throw them out in disgust. One day I decided to try feeding some to a group of 3-week-olds that weren't terribly important to me. Not only did they love the fly larvae, they thrived, getting nearly twice the size of their counterparts of comparable age. Since then I purposely allow at least one worm culture to get infested with fruit flies so I always have some larvae on hand. They come in different sizes, for different-aged bettas. Lots of protein and fats, so I would only recommend one feeding a day of this stuff.

So I do fly larvae in the morning (one or two does the trick), daphnia or frozen/FD bbs at midday, and frozen/FD bloodworms at night. Twice a week they get crumbled sun-dried freshwater shrimp to aid in digestion. In the warmer months, I culture mosquito larvae to feed to growing fry. All my fish are fasted every Friday.

I've never tried it myself, but I am thinking of using frozen beef heart. Anyone have any experiences with it?



Hello Victoria
This my first chance to tank you for how you handled your water.With a net and floss and carbon i added to my sysem and has realy improve my water again thanks.

Now to the subject of food and what mix to gether makes a balance diet.
Now lets say we have some shrimp and some of what ever we have in are area that carries a high content of Protine And fat

Now lets say we think what we feed the fish for 3 or 4 times a day of a differnt verity of this and that,and lets give it a figure of 55% protine, And again we think about the fat content,and we give the fat content and we give it a percentage of 15% fat.Realy this would be a very good balance percetage diet.

Now lets say we buy a dry flake or what ever shape food the fish can it and can digest for that type of fish, And we give it the same vaue 55% Protine and 15% fat.
Now let us think about the good points and bad points of each type of fish food.We will start off with that old dry food first.With the good points and then the bad points.
1 It is stable and stays the same.
2.Consitant in the % ratio of protine and fat and so on.
3It is always at hand.
4Cost factor probly cheaper in the long run.
5 Can still vary differnt types maintaing same percentage of protine .
6Protine and fat are set %amount in each bag and a varation of pecetage food if feeding young or old.To accomlish groth in the young with a high content of protine .But yet considering the older fish, dog, cat, or what ever pertaing to there kidneys.Because to much protine in that stage of life is hard on them. We might say a fish dosn't live that long ,but ibeleve the rasio will fall in line.
7Dry food dosn't seem to spoil as fast.
8.One can measure the amount he feeds and stay the course with his or her scedual.
Dry food dosn't spoil as fast in a tank,inturn causing more water changes. on and on

Bad things about dry food.
At this point my mine has gone blank.
Other than i feel feeding live food is like being on the diet iam on.Don't how much till i look at the lable,How much fat content and so on.

Now live food,
Since my mine has gone blank annd iam inexpeance on live food, because it is not at hand for me.
Would you be so kind or some one decribe the good and bad points for live food.and in the live food feeding, how dose one derive at how much is enough of each, to get a balance diet.And maitain the correct
ratio of fat and protine,that fish would need at a age to atain the
pecentage we give it.Or what ever % you feel it needs

Now i mean no disrespect here, ever one has the right to there view and opinion.
I have been a register dog and pigion judge. and every thing i raised was on dry feed.Even my last betta.The young when fed dry food start a little slow but as long as one maintains the right percentage of protine and fat and adjust accordinly to there age it will balance out.
Again thanks Victoria for your post on how you handled your water.
Later Bond













5

[VictoriaParnell]

quote:
Hello Victoria
This my first chance to tank you for how you handled your water.With a net and floss and carbon i added to my sysem and has realy improve my water again thanks.


You're very welcome Bond; I'm pleased that you found my tip useful. [col]

The negatives of dried:
1.) Sometimes the fish won't take it.
2.) When they do take it, they usually only eat to satisfaction of the hunger. A good thing in maintaining bettas, but difficult when you are trying to fatten them up (i.e., raising fry, conditioning breeders, etc)
3.) I am not sure of the percentage, but there is a lessening of nutritional value during the drying process.

The negatives of live/frozen:
1.) It's disgusting. (I have a real problem with worms)
2.) It smells.
3.) It can be difficult to maintain.
4.) Decomposition can pollute the water.
5.) It may contain detrimental bacteria and/or parasites
6.) It's expensive.
Hmm...I'm beginning to wonder why I like this stuff so much.

I have a friend who has a rather unorthodox way of raising his fry. He feeds them egg yolk until they are 2 weeks old. Then he spawns a pair of veil tail bettas in a small bucket, removes both parents, and pours the newly-hatched fry into the tank with the 2 week old fry. He says there is no problem with water pollution, because they live until they are eaten. He also says it is the #1 most natural food for bettas, over daphnia, infusoria, mosquito larvae, etc., since in the wild one of the foremost foods for bettas are smaller bettas.

Interesting, but I would never have the heart to try something like that.

[Alex Lim]

Similar in the case when i fed the babies of my experimental platys (yups, they gave birth alive in the container i kept them in) to my bettas.

[SteveHewlett]

A week ago we got a betta from a local fish store here in Framingham, MA, USA. He is about 1.5" (3.8cm) long and is a mostly red veil tale. We are feeding him Hikari Bio-Gold baby pellets which he really likes. I have tried Hikari freeze dried bloodworms (cut into really small pieces) and he likes those okay but they leave an oily film on the water surface which I remove with a paper towel. I tried NutraFin Max Betta Food (flake) but he didn't really eat it, spitting out the few pieces he tried. I am going to try Hikari freeze dried brine shrimp on him and also some HBH Betta Bites (pellets) and another brand of pellets made by someone in the state of Vermont here in the US.

It is winter here and very cold and snowy. Next summer I will leave a bucket of water outside to get some mosquito larvae which I will feed the betta.

I think food variety is really important, not only for just nutrition but also to fight boredom and depression. I like floating pellets because it is really easy to feed a precise amount and there is no waste left over which can contribute to ammonia in the tank.

From my research I have concluded that bettas kept in small bowls live only 2 years or so, but those kept in 5 gallon and larger tanks can live 5-7 years as long as attention is paid to water quality and diet. This betta is in a 5 gallon tank by himself and we hope to keep him for many years as he is a sociable and active guy. :)

[Alex Lim]

But Steve,

we have to note that not all bettas finished up their pellet foods. i note that sometimes, they will regurgitate it out when we do not notice. it is my belief that all foods irregardless of their form contribute to waste. the thing lies in whether we can keep these waste which keeps building up every second from exploding to an unacceptable level.

[SteveHewlett]

Alex, my betta and my plakat are not regurgitating the Hikari Betta BioGold baby pellets. I watch them eat and keep an eye on them afterwards for a while. They will regurgitate other pellets, flakes, and anything else they decide they don't like. The Hikari pellets are true floating pellets and don't sink so if they get regurgitated it is easy to spot them. Other pellets I have tried such as HBH Aqua Culture betta pellets tend to sink rather quickly. I agree with you that excess food in the tank can really foul the water. I test tank water fairly frequently and do water changes as needed.

I should add that I am simply a pet owner rather than a breeder. The four month old plakat lives in a 15 gallon planted tank by himself and the pet store betta lives in a 5 gallon planted tank by himself and I am in the process of setting up a 10 gallon planted tank for him. These larger bodies of water are easier to stabilize the water parameters. I realize this is not practical for a breeder with hundreds of fry and juveniles.

[Myron Tay]

Here's what I feed my adult bettas:

Hikari Frozen bloodworms
Hikari Frozen brine shrimp
Argent Cyclop-eeze
Decapsulated Artemia
Momizi Tropical Dried Foods
Hikari Daphnia Jelly
Tetra Bettamin

I am convinced that their is no end to the variety of foods that would constitute a balanced diet for bettas. The liveliest, best-looking bettas are the result of feeding them a wide variety of foods.

[David Esguerra]

I feed mine fresh-freshwater shrimp meat cut up into little parts and the ever favorite staple food of fish, mosquito larvae, live. I keep my betta feeding cheap but worthwhile. Of course, the conditions in which I live in would almost surely not be the same as yours, but that's just how I feed my bettas. An occasional bite of pellet food would also be given, make that quite a lot these days as I am busy with a lot of paperwork.

[David Esguerra]

Forgot, I also add some oatmeal from time to time to add some fiber to the diet for prevention of such diseases as dropsy which could easily be attributed to improper diets.

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by David Esguerra

I feed mine fresh-freshwater shrimp meat cut up into little parts and the ever favorite staple food of fish, mosquito larvae, live. I keep my betta feeding cheap but worthwhile. Of course, the conditions in which I live in would almost surely not be the same as yours, but that's just how I feed my bettas. An occasional bite of pellet food would also be given, make that quite a lot these days as I am busy with a lot of paperwork.
Hi David. Welcome to the forum! Great that you are contributing your experience!

What pellets do you feed your bettas may I ask? :D

[Alex Lim]

quote:Originally posted by David Esguerra

I feed mine fresh-freshwater shrimp meat cut up into little parts and the ever favorite staple food of fish, mosquito larvae, live. I keep my betta feeding cheap but worthwhile. Of course, the conditions in which I live in would almost surely not be the same as yours, but that's just how I feed my bettas. An occasional bite of pellet food would also be given, make that quite a lot these days as I am busy with a lot of paperwork.


Hi David,

really envy you about feeding mosquito larvas.. [col] here in S'pore, the govt does not allow the breeding of M.Ls in the ever-going battle against malaria and dengue fever. we can only feed it occasionally (if M.Ls can be found).

[David Esguerra]

I use prawn crumble, non branded so it seems to be much cheaper. As I said, I go for cheap but worthwhile, I don't really invest too much (compared to other breeders I have seen) on bettas, but that does not mean I don't strive for quality.

BTW, prawn crumble is dessicated prawn by products pelletized. That is virtually the staple of my fish along with shrimp meat (freshwater).

On the issue of a balanced diet, you would have to know that not because you feed specific forms of meat means that you are giving the betta all that it needs. DO note that in the wild, betta prey usually have their guts loaded with all the good stuff, something that can't be easily replicated by even the big fish food companies. What the prey eats would dictate its quality, not too much on what type of meat it is.

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by David Esguerra

On the issue of a balanced diet, you would have to know that not because you feed specific forms of meat means that you are giving the betta all that it needs. DO note that in the wild, betta prey usually have their guts loaded with all the good stuff, something that can't be easily replicated by even the big fish food companies. What the prey eats would dictate its quality, not too much on what type of meat it is.
David

This is a great point! In fact, an article on FAMA mentioned that some plant-eating fish would take animal proteins but would die if not given plant-based foods!

[David Esguerra]

Yep, and same goes for the bettas. Most would classify them as stricly carnivores but I would tend to put them in a classification of omnivorous but geared for meat (this is just my idea, don't take it as absolute fact) Bettas would readily take in plant matter (not all types but some types of plant matter) which would signify that they really need it in their diet (unlike us humans, most animals eat things because they need to rather than because they want to, take note most animals, not all).

At any rate, I did already throw out the point that some diseases are directly diet related. Bettas would not live on meat alone. IN the wild, probably they could live on prey alone, but these prey would have some if not a great deal of plant/plant like matter in them.

[Myron Tay]

Update of what I feed my adult bettas:

Hikari Frozen bloodworms
Hikari Frozen brine shrimp
Argent Cyclop-eeze
Hikari Daphnia Jelly
Nutrafin Max for Bettas

Currently looking for: Betta Gourmet by Kent Marine

I am convinced that feeding a few types of food (live or frozen or dried forms) is insufficient to raise thriving bettas. As an example, feeding live blood worms, frozen bloodworms and dried bloodworms is tantamount to feeding one type of food. This is insufficient. We need to move on to brine shrimp, dapnia and other foods. I believe that there is a place for dried foods in our bettas diet since these typically come with all sorts of trace vitamins and minerals that are an essential part of a balanced diet.

Anyone knows of any studies on optimal diets for fish?

[Myron Tay]

Update of what I feed my adult bettas:

Hikari Frozen bloodworms
Hikari Frozen brine shrimp
Argent Cyclop-eeze
Hikari Daphnia Jelly
Nutrafin Max for Bettas

Currently looking for: Betta Gourmet by Kent Marine

I am convinced that feeding a few types of food (live or frozen or dried forms) is insufficient to raise thriving bettas. As an example, feeding live blood worms, frozen bloodworms and dried bloodworms is tantamount to feeding one type of food. This is insufficient. We need to move on to brine shrimp, dapnia and other foods. I believe that there is a place for dried foods in our bettas diet since these typically come with all sorts of trace vitamins and minerals that are an essential part of a balanced diet.

Anyone knows of any studies on optimal diets for fish?

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by David Esguerra

While I'm at it, this is one of the reasons why I'm not really a fan of commercial fish food (though I do use them for the sake of convenience).

Most commercial fish food, specially the really good brands are nutritionally balanced. This is viewed as a good thing by most people and in some ways it really is. However, in some ways it is also bad.

Why is it bad? Yes I know, saying that a "nutritionally balanced" food could be bad is quite radical but it could indeed be bad. This is because although the food has supposedly all the nutrients that the fish may ever need, it was not taken into consideration that the fish does not really need these nutrients all the time.

In nature, the fish don't get all the nutrients that they need in just one meal, not to mention not from just one type of food. In fact in nature, its quite normal for a fish to have an unbalanced diet as it would take maybe a few days equaling to several different meals before they attain balance. Nutritional balance is attained over time, not in just one sitting.

However, this is what pellet food would be promoting. Each and everytime a betta eats this food, it gets all that it needs, however could his system handle it? Chances are, a lot of the nutrients are supplied in excess and are just excreted as waste, placing unnecessary stress on the fish's excretory system. That is why again, any real fish keeper would always promote a varied diet. A diet on pellets alone would be bad but do also note that a diet on bloodworms alone would also be bad. Nutritionally balanced does not necessarily mean a balanced diet.

That said, I would repeat again (I have posted this in several other boards, betta or otherwise but I'm not sure if I already posted it here) that CP (crude protein) is not at all a good measure of the nutritional value of food stuff. Its just an estimate and as the name suggests, a "crude" estimate. Not because a certain feed has a higher CP than another means that it is better because not all this protein could be metabolized by the fish/animal. To illustrate, hair and feathers would have close to 100% CP, but we all know how nutritionally valuable they are. Metabolizeable protein is a much better measure, however the test for it would be much more time consuming and much more case to case (i.e. even if it is the same kind of food, let's say shrimp, the metabolizeable protein may still vary between samples) hence CP is the one used. The point is, as already stated not because a certain type of food has a higher CP rating means that it is automatically superior to other types of feed.

Sorry for the long post....
David

I take your point about we really have to be sure about what we are feeding our bettas with, even those feeds from renowned brands. Some food manufacturers don't really know the full requirements of the fish before deciding on the food that goes into their products (hence my non-reliance on a single brand of food for my fish).I also agree that there should be variety in our bettas diet.

But I take issue with your point that the bettas in the wild do not eat balanced meals every day and as such, we should not feed balanced meals to our bettas every day (not that we are providing the right balance every day actually since we really don't know what the right balance is - which is another point). This is because mother nature does not have to support the long-finned beauties we have in our tanks! I would venture to say that domestic bettas do not have exactly the same nutritional requirements as their wild cousins. As to what those differences are, I cannot be certain, but I am quite sure it involves a balanced diet on a more regular basis. What do you think?

[Chee Koon]

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

Update of what I feed my adult bettas:

Hikari Frozen bloodworms
Hikari Frozen brine shrimp
Argent Cyclop-eeze
Hikari Daphnia Jelly
Nutrafin Max for Bettas

Currently looking for: Betta Gourmet by Kent Marine

I am convinced that feeding a few types of food (live or frozen or dried forms) is insufficient to raise thriving bettas. As an example, feeding live blood worms, frozen bloodworms and dried bloodworms is tantamount to feeding one type of food. This is insufficient. We need to move on to brine shrimp, dapnia and other foods. I believe that there is a place for dried foods in our bettas diet since these typically come with all sorts of trace vitamins and minerals that are an essential part of a balanced diet.

Anyone knows of any studies on optimal diets for fish?


Myron,

You dropped Momizi? Why? Daphnia Jelly from Hikari is good but betta always spits some out and foul the water.

I am also looking for "Betta Gourmet", did you find anybody selling here in Singapore? How about "Betta Banquet" from Seachem? Geez..reliased that there are so much of designer foods out there.

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by jocelyn

Izzit okay to feed betta pellets daily???

Will give them bloodworms once every two days...

Is this alright?
Jocelyn

Not good enough in my opinion. Hopefully this thread would be useful. Cheers!

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by **** Koon

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

Update of what I feed my adult bettas:

Hikari Frozen bloodworms
Hikari Frozen brine shrimp
Argent Cyclop-eeze
Hikari Daphnia Jelly
Nutrafin Max for Bettas

Currently looking for: Betta Gourmet by Kent Marine

I am convinced that feeding a few types of food (live or frozen or dried forms) is insufficient to raise thriving bettas. As an example, feeding live blood worms, frozen bloodworms and dried bloodworms is tantamount to feeding one type of food. This is insufficient. We need to move on to brine shrimp, dapnia and other foods. I believe that there is a place for dried foods in our bettas diet since these typically come with all sorts of trace vitamins and minerals that are an essential part of a balanced diet.

Anyone knows of any studies on optimal diets for fish?

Myron,

You dropped Momizi? Why? Daphnia Jelly from Hikari is good but betta always spits some out and foul the water.

I am also looking for "Betta Gourmet", did you find anybody selling here in Singapore? How about "Betta Banquet" from Seachem? Geez..reliased that there are so much of designer foods out there.
Yes, **** Koon. I have cut back on Momizi when I realised that there were now so many alternatives. But have not stopped it completely. Daphnia Jelly is good for variety and since I change 50% of the water every other day, they spitting out part of what they take in is not a problem.
You can find Betta Banquet here: www.eaquanature.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=31_112&products_id=360

Let me know how it turns out ya?

[Gareth Connolly]

guys what exaclty is MOINA, it was mentioned on the first page

[David Esguerra]

Moina to my knowledge is a relative of Daphnia. I think that one of its common names is "Russian Daphnia" though I'm not 100% sure on this. I can't find my file on Moina but it does feed the same way as daphnia, there are differences in size as well as breeding methods (as I remember Moina can't reproduce sexually, daphnia could reproduce both sexually and assexually or at least without a male.

Back to Myron, this could be a bit long but I'll discuss first the side of the wild betta.

Now I assume that we all know that a betta's real habitat is a swamp. Some could migrate to rice paddies and irrigation canals but these are not really "wild" habitat as both are man made structures.

In the wild, a betta does not have anyone to feed it (I won't go religious on this one but I could restate it as, "no man" feeds the betta in the wild). With this, you should consider the fact that at times, one meal once a week would already be a blessing. And this one meal is not a banquet, its something that the bettas would have to compete for, hence by virtue of the theory of natural selection, only the strongest of the strong survive. Now would come the surprise, what would this "once a week meal" be? The fish would be lucky if it was a batch of mosquito larvae or a colony of daphnia or cyclops. At times the best food they could get would be nothing but carrion (we are speaking of wild terms here, I am not promoting feeding carrion to fish, not because its absolutely worthless food because it actually has its benefits but rather it is very very very (just to give enough emphasis) risky...) At any rate, not only would the fish eat very seldomly, the meal would already be a blessing if it had all the things that it needs. Its a cruel world in the wild, but this gives us a picture of how the betta's digestive system has been designed, it could survive not being fed for quite some time and is not really accustomed to having very nutritious food, at least not all the time (i.e. everyday).

That's the side of a wild type betta. Now, it is quite logical that the needs of a domesticated(specially long finned) fish may be different if not totally different from the requirements of fish from the wild. However, you should note, man has meddled a lot with the finnage and the color of the betta, but did you consider if he actually modified the fish's internal systems?

From that question, this discussion could go into at least two directions:

1. if the fish's internal system was also modified along with its external features, then it could be assumed that the digestive system of the fish could not only digest food that is extravagantly rich in nutrients but also absorb it all to the extreme benefit of the fish.

2. If it is not (which I is the point I subscribe to) then the added nutrients would not be digested, at least not all the time. It could help that the nutrients are there but the digestive system would only get what it needs, the rest, no matter how high quality the feed is, would be excreted out as waste. In short periods, this would pose no problem but if the digestive system had to excrete tremendous amounts of waste each and every day of the fish's life, well I think you get the picture of the stress it causes.

An analogy of my second point would be salt (NaCl) in a human diet. We all know that we need a certain amount of salt in the diet, without it we die. However we also know that too much salt is bad, if not lethal. But why is it lethal? For one thing kidney stones could form, aside from the blood becoming too thick and the tissues being hardened. In theory the human excretory system should be able to remove all excess salt, however the human body, along with its systems has its limits, same thing with a fish's system. Ever notice that dropsy would easily develop if you feed the fish the "richest" food around all the time? Back in the days when tubifex was considered the one and only best food for bettas by virtue of its protein content (I don't know if you passed through these times but it did happen) some keepers opted to feed only tubifex and nothing else because it was the "best" food. It may have been the best, however the "best" eaten all the time could end up being the "worst". Variety is still the key.

I am not saying that pellet foods are absolutely bad, its their over use that is. I personally would have pellet food as part of my betta's menu and at times when I am very very busy it even becomes their staple (which to me is a bad thing) just because it is very convenient to feed to fish.

However that was just backgrounder info (as I said, this could be a bit long, sorry again...)

I completely agree with you that the requirements of domestic fish would be quite different from the wild types. I really agree with this. They would need more minerals, more protein and more vitamins to say the least, in a word they need more of virtually everything including more care from the fish keeper. However, its the method of administration.

If you use "balanced diet" to refer to a diet with virtually everyting a fish needs in a single meal every single day, I am of the opinion that even domestic bettas don't need this (but that's just my opinion... anyone's opinion could be right or wrong including mine). However if you use "balanced diet" as a menu that has everything that a betta needs and feeding the items in the menu in a varied manner, then I could agree with you.

The point that I was actually getting across is that animals' digestive system (as well as human) attain balance as a function of time, not by putting everything it needs in a single meal.

To end, feeding bettas everyting that it needs every single day (usually the ones guilty of this would be those who feed pellets and pellets only) would be like a human being eating milk and eggs in sufficient ammount everyday of his life. Milk and Eggs are considered to be virtually "complete". What is not found in one food item in the combination could usually be found in the other. Of course, no human being would do this. By instinct (i.e. by cravings) humans would search out a varied diet, and this varied diet need not have everything it needs in every meal everyday. There are times when humans would eat only meat and staple for one day (no veggies whatsoever)sometimes there would be some veggies added, then there would be the common staple depending on where your from. In effect, if humans (particularly the healthy ones) don't eat all that they need all the time, how could you expect a relatively simple fish digestive system to handle all those nutrients? It would just take what it needs and throw out the rest.

[David Esguerra]

To further emphasize some other points burried in that long post of mine, it has always been assumed that the fish is not getting enough from its food and so formulations have been geared so as to add more and more nutrients into the food. However, it has not been considered that current formulations and diets may already have too much in them for the fish's system to handle them effiently.

[Myron Tay]

Thanks for clarifying, David. I agree with your point that we should not use dried foods as staples for our bettas. As mentioned earlier, no one really knows what constitutes a balanced diet for bettas. There are specialists in the animal kingdom. The koala and the cheetah both thrive only on a specific diet and nothing else. Not sure if the betta falls into that category. I suspect that they do not, due to the abundance of live prey found in their natural habitat. I suspect though that it has a very high percentage of animal / insect content, with less (if any) of the vegetarian kind. Hmmm...maybe I should re-look at those dried flakes I have been feeding my bettas...

[Chee Koon]

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

Thanks for clarifying, David. I agree with your point that we should not use dried foods as staples for our bettas. As mentioned earlier, no one really knows what constitutes a balanced diet for bettas. There are specialists in the animal kingdom. The koala and the cheetah both thrive only on a specific diet and nothing else. Not sure if the betta falls into that category. I suspect that they do not, due to the abundance of live prey found in their natural habitat. I suspect though that it has a very high percentage of animal / insect content, with less (if any) of the vegetarian kind. Hmmm...maybe I should re-look at those dried flakes I have been feeding my bettas...


myron, divert the topic a little bit. i have not been very successful in training my fishes to take flakes. wat's yr method? they had hard time taking a bite on it. crushing them into finer pieces might foul the water and the fishes took no interest on them.

as to how much is enough for bettas, think there will be no quantifiable answer for that. best is still to vary their daily intake.

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by **** Koon
myron, divert the topic a little bit. i have not been very successful in training my fishes to take flakes. wat's yr method? they had hard time taking a bite on it. crushing them into finer pieces might foul the water and the fishes took no interest on them.
**** Koon

I tend to introduce dried foods when my fries are at the growth spurt stage (about 3 weeks to a month), when I start to wean them off microworms. Think it is a lost cause with adult bettas.

[Jodi Lea]

Typically, obtaining live food sources in Australia is difficult and expensive. I have quite a few cultures going, but don't have the time, energy or inclination to scale up to the required amount. I have had success raising bettas (and everything else in the fishroom) on a food I make myself. It comprises shelled prawns, cheap fish (usually nile perch), beefheart (blanched), frozen peas, frozen spinach, farax (a rice based baby cereal), vitamin C, pentavite (baby vitamins) and spirulina all set in agar or gelatine. I pour the mix into plastic zip-lock bags and flatten them into slabs. These are then put into the fridge until they set. Afterwards I dice some up and freeze in convenient lots. Some I just freeze as slabs. I feed out chuncks to the Cichlids, catfish and tanks of young bettas. It is the easiest way to get them onto dry food. My bettas now eat anything you throw at them, even flake. For the jarred fish, I just use a pair of tweezers to break off a small piece and add it to each jar. Need to do more waterchanges though - not as clean as live food. My theory behind the vegetables (besides it being a pain in the rump if I had to make 2 different lots of food) is that mossie larvae are detritus feeders, so there is plant matter in their guts. Just like wild dogs and cats getting green matter from the guts of the herbivores they kill.
I also condition breeders on the fry of convict cichlids. Don't know if I could feed out baby bettas though!
Cheers, J

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by Jodi Lea

Typically, obtaining live food sources in Australia is difficult and expensive. I have quite a few cultures going, but don't have the time, energy or inclination to scale up to the required amount. I have had success raising bettas (and everything else in the fishroom) on a food I make myself. It comprises shelled prawns, cheap fish (usually nile perch), beefheart (blanched), frozen peas, frozen spinach, farax (a rice based baby cereal), vitamin C, pentavite (baby vitamins) and spirulina all set in agar or gelatine. I pour the mix into plastic zip-lock bags and flatten them into slabs. These are then put into the fridge until they set. Afterwards I dice some up and freeze in convenient lots. Some I just freeze as slabs. I feed out chuncks to the Cichlids, catfish and tanks of young bettas. It is the easiest way to get them onto dry food. My bettas now eat anything you throw at them, even flake. For the jarred fish, I just use a pair of tweezers to break off a small piece and add it to each jar. Need to do more waterchanges though - not as clean as live food. My theory behind the vegetables (besides it being a pain in the rump if I had to make 2 different lots of food) is that mossie larvae are detritus feeders, so there is plant matter in their guts. Just like wild dogs and cats getting green matter from the guts of the herbivores they kill.
I also condition breeders on the fry of convict cichlids. Don't know if I could feed out baby bettas though!
Cheers, J
Thanks for sharing Jodi. Assuming you are right about the vegetables even for carnivores, I would imagine that the vegetable matter is found in the frozen commercially prepared prey foods (e.g. bloodworms, daphnia, brine shrimp) for fish as well? In addition, I would imagine that the diet would overwhelming still be meat in nature rather than plant matter. What is the percentage of plant matter you incorporate into the diet for your bettas?

[Myron Tay]

**** Koon

I am moving away from Bettamin and Nutri-max, because I find that they have too much plant fillers in them. So here's what I use now:

Hikari Frozen bloodworms
Hikari Frozen brine shrimp
Argent Cyclop-eeze
Hikari Freeze-Dried Daphnia and Hikari Daphnia Jelly

I usually give a mixture of frozen bloodworms and brine shrimp in the morning and a mixture of cyclop-eeze and daphnia in the evening.

[Myron Tay]

Check out this link I found on nutrition for fish:

http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/feedingfish/a/nutrition101.htm

[Jodi Lea]

the mix is around 1/3 vegetables, and is usually fed every 3rd-4th meal. So about 10% of the diet is plant matter. The other 2-3 meals are frozen blood worms & soaked pellets (similar to tetrabits). Because the bettas get fed the same pellets as the Cichlids, the pellets are soaked in water first. Lake Malawi Cichlids have a tendency to over-eat and bloat.
J

[David Esguerra]

Myron, you bring up a great point in this statement:

"I would imagine that the vegetable matter is found in the frozen commercially prepared prey foods (e.g. bloodworms, daphnia, brine shrimp) for fish as well?"

I have always wondered how good the condition of these prey (bloodworms etc..) are before they are frozen. There is quite a good chance that they were fasted before freezing to purge out their waste along with possible disease organisms in them (at least I know they do this for earthworms used as bait). However, if they were indeed fasted (which I really don't know for sure), it could be quite possible that there would be no more plant matter in them hence the need to supplement betta diets with some veggie matter.

Of course, these are just assumptions of mine but it is quite logical to purge/fast them before freezing, better to freeze food that is slightly nutritionally defficient rather than sell diseased food which is something that no fish food company would want.

[sylwester]

I have a balanced diet with bloodworms, ox-heart, brine, black mosquito larvae, fruitflies and some times betta-dry food. I don't give bloodworms and ox-heart more than once every two days since they could eat them self to death on it. I have a schedule/menu for feeding twice a day except sundays. The menu is different for fry but just as diverse.

Notice all of these are frozen except fruitflies. I wish I had daphnia and some other live foods as well.

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by David Esguerra

Myron, you bring up a great point in this statement:

"I would imagine that the vegetable matter is found in the frozen commercially prepared prey foods (e.g. bloodworms, daphnia, brine shrimp) for fish as well?"

I have always wondered how good the condition of these prey (bloodworms etc..) are before they are frozen. There is quite a good chance that they were fasted before freezing to purge out their waste along with possible disease organisms in them (at least I know they do this for earthworms used as bait). However, if they were indeed fasted (which I really don't know for sure), it could be quite possible that there would be no more plant matter in them hence the need to supplement betta diets with some veggie matter.

Of course, these are just assumptions of mine but it is quite logical to purge/fast them before freezing, better to freeze food that is slightly nutritionally defficient rather than sell diseased food which is something that no fish food company would want.
Great point, David!

I still feel that the amount of plant matter in most commercially prepared dried foods for bettas at present is too high to form the staple, but they make great supplements. I discovered that based on the nutrition link provided above that the fat content in Tetra bettamin is too high. So I think I might just stick with Nutrafin for Bettas.

[Chee Koon]

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

**** Koon

I am moving away from Bettamin and Nutri-max, because I find that they have too much plant fillers in them. So here's what I use now:

Hikari Frozen bloodworms
Hikari Frozen brine shrimp
Argent Cyclop-eeze
Hikari Fried Dried Daphnia and Hikari Daphnia Jelly

I usually give a mixture of frozen bloodworms and brine shrimp in the morning and a mixture of cyclop-eeze and daphnia in the evening.


Hikari Fried Dried Daphnia? Wah! That's interesting! Ha..ha..

If high vegetable matter content is the main concern then i believe we should take a look at Ocean Nutrition line of products. Claimed that it was made of > 50% seafood ingredients. Unfortunately do not have the courage to try as my bettas HATE flakes. That's why I ask about yr feeding method with such form of food.

Anyone tried that brand before?

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by **** Koon



Hikari Fried Dried Daphnia? Wah! That's interesting! Ha..ha..

If high vegetable matter content is the main concern then i believe we should take a look at Ocean Nutrition line of products. Claimed that it was made of > 50% seafood ingredients. Unfortunately do not have the courage to try as my bettas HATE flakes. That's why I ask about yr feeding method with such form of food.

Anyone tried that brand before?
Ahem...should be freeze-dried of course.

Suspect that the other 50% is vegetable matter. Still far too high plant matter content for my liking.

[David Esguerra]

I think I posted this before, actually the problem I have in commercial food is not so much the vegetable matter being too much but rather the amount of simple sugars that are used to bind these food. I don't know why it is never listed on the labels but unless there has been some technological change that I do not know off, the main binders in pellets and flakes are usually simple sugars.

Still, just like Myron said, they are good as treats, but never a staple.

[Wayne]

I am so hope that I am living in SG [bh] As so many food designed for betta are readily available, unlike Penang (probably Malaysia), somehow, It is hard to find good betta food beside local brand which I doubt the quality of it.

Even if I want Hikari brand pellets I will have to ask a LFS to do special order for me. :(

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by Wayne

I am so hope that I am living in SG [bh] As so many food designed for betta are readily available, unlike Penang (probably Malaysia), somehow, It is hard to find good betta food beside local brand which I doubt the quality of it.

Even if I want Hikari brand pellets I will have to ask a LFS to do special order for me. :(
Wayne

You could try this on-line store based in Singapore:

www.eaquanature.com

[Wayne]

Thanks Myron. :) Sorry for the late thanks. I missed thes thread.

[David Esguerra]

Then again, does malaysia have the same ban on mosquito larvae as Singapore? maybe you could just catch those, they're great betta food too. Though of course, as was repeatedly stated, variety is still the key to good nutrition.

[Wayne]

No, i haven't anything about the government banning the cultivation of mosquito larvae, may be they haven't realise anyone doing it at large scale and are causing harm to the environment. But ocassionally you can see them spraying insectiside at large scale. Those man carrying those flame-thrower like think sparying white smelly fumes which is suppose to kill mosquito. I wouldn't cultivate it myself, cos I hate mosquito. :D

I am still looking for comercially available live or frozen food. May be i will order through the Betta Specialist shop.

[Myron Tay]

Currently, I am only using frozen blood worms and frozen brine shrimp from Hikari. Due mainly to convenience. My dad feeds them twice a day at present.

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by Fiona Sai

Can I feed freeze dried or live blood worms to my adult bettas everyday as they only enjoy eating blood worms? Please advice as this is my first time keeping bettas.Fiona

Have you considered frozen bloodworms? Also, do give them more variety in the diet. I would recommend frozen brine shrimp.

[Myron Tay]

Anyone read anything about the dietary requirements of bettas or similar species?

[Fabiano]

Hello,
I have read all of this topic, and liked it. It is very important to all breeder and keeper know what diet is the best to the bettas.
I found an article from a research of a Vietnam University that is very good. http://www.dec.ctu.edu.vn/cdrom/cd6/projects/nus_tropical_fish/protein.html

The protein and fat level is very important, but we have to know what protein and fat we are giving to the bettas, because there are the essencial aminoacids and the essencial lipids the fishes need and don't synthetize it.

Hug's and I'm very happy to be part of this forum.

[sylwester]

quote:Originally posted by Bond


7Dry food dosn't seem to spoil as fast.


Dry food and pellets last as long as their exparation date unopened. After opening however, they have a lifetime of between 1 and 3 months. After that their protein content is disturbed and before you know it you might just as well fed yuor fish paper. Very few brands except the more profesional and expensive ones have this info on the label and I don't think the cheap food lasts longer.

My menu of 15 frozen foods for bettas from 1 month to old age lasts as long as they are in the freezer for more than one year. (thats how long one can have meat for humans and I use the same rules for fish food). Their overall favorite is a mix of cod, chicken and common mussles.

I use a little more effort with my live foods. I have grindal moina, worms, flightless fruit flies,micro worms and vinegar eels. (In the order of most to little work to maintain). In the summer I collect live black larvae. I like to see bettas work a little for the food not to loose their instincts.

[dries]

As a general point on the dry feed, I am sure that the protein content would not be disturbed within 1 to 3 months after opening, but what can happen is that the attractability of the food might be diminished if the food has been opened and kept in bad conditions. Chances are bacteria and fungi will start growing on the food, and therefore the smell will be not so good [pk] and yes, the general quality will be compromised. That this would occur after 1 to 3 months seems very quick to me, but this depends purely on the storeage conditions. In any case keeping the food dry and cool will surely lengthen this time, and I would advise to keep the food in a refrigerator to be sure to have good storeage conditions. Yes, there where we keep the food for humans. [33]

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by Fan Kei Lim
i guess maybe a mixture of whatever products that cover all the betta's nutritional needs?
Hi

I am now inclined to believe that most of the dietary requirements of bettas could be found in one or two types of foods like mosquito larve, tubifex worms and bloodworms. I can't imagine there to be much more variety to the betta's diet than that in the wild. Also, I am told that most of the prized specimens from Thailand are raised on these. Or maybe it is just the lazy part of me that wants to believe that.

I also believe now that dried food (flakes or pellets), while readily accepted and could be offered as supplementary food to fries, offer more harm than good to adult bettas. It is rare to find adult bettas which would finish any significant amount of such foods to make a difference. Chances are, such dried food would be refused and left to rot in the tanks, causing all sorts of problems. As such, dried foods offer more harm than good to adult bettas.

[Daniel Chia]

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

I am now inclined to believe that most of the dietary requirements of bettas could be found in one or two types of foods like mosquito larve, tubifex worms and bloodworms. I can't imagine there to be much more variety to the betta's diet than that in the wild. Also, I am told that most of the prized specimens from Thailand are raised on these. Or maybe it is just the lazy part of me that wants to believe that.

I also believe now that dried food (flakes or pellets), while readily accepted and could be offered as supplementary food to fries, offer more harm than good to adult bettas. It is rare to find adult bettas which would finish any significant amount of such foods to make a difference. Chances are, such dried food would be refused and left to rot in the tanks, causing all sorts of problems. As such, dried foods offer more harm than good to adult bettas.Very true. Domesticated bettas tend to grow bigger than their wild counterparts because they are often fed a variety of nutritious foods and often in portions that are larger than what they'd get in the wild. However, being bigger need not necessarily mean that they are healthier.

Modern living and busy lifestyle has also made more people (I'm equally guilty of this) feed dried foods (e.g. pellets, freeze-dried worms, flakes) to their fish and the frequent feeding and overfeeding of such foods causes conditions like constipation and Swim Bladder Disorder.

A betta living in the wild would most probably not experience such problems.

[dries]

Hi Myron,
I do not agree that you connect the problem of overfeeding to the use of dry food. In case of frozen food, the problem is the same: in case of overfeeding the extra amount will also be left to rot in the tank, the problem is the same.
Of course, the problem is in theory less with life food, but we do not want to have musquitos flying around because we fed too many mosquito larvae. And also here, it is not good to have the fish eat all day. As every living organism, his stomach needs to empty at times.
Be it live food, frozen food or dry food, just feed as much as your fish wants to eat in a short while. Take the time to get to know your fish, and get to know how he reacts to the kind of food you are giving him. Finally, in case of accidental overfeeding, clean the tank, whatever the kind of food used.

[Myron Tay]

Hi Dries

I take your point about overfeeding: we should not overfeed our fish as well.

However, my point is that adult bettas do not take dried foods readily (they take frozen and live food more readily). There is hence a greater risk of rotting food not just from overfeeding but also from refusal of food by adult bettas in the case of dried food as compared to frozen or live food. In my experience, healthy adult bettas eventally finish up all frozen or live food offered to them, while they need not finish all the dried food offered to them.

[Daniel Chia]

quote:Originally posted by dries

Finally, in case of accidental overfeeding, clean the tank, whatever the kind of food used.
quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

In my experience, healthy adult bettas eventally finish up all frozen or live food offered to them, while they need not finish all the dried food offered to them.
Leftover dried foods? Another assignment for the...

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3074

;)

[MarcusRoyce]

i just bought frozen blood worms for 90cents, some packaging with chinese words i think.
do i have to wash these before feeding as well?

[Myron Tay]

Marcus

I use Hikari frozen blood worms, which go through a 3-step sterilisation process. I just feed them directly to my fish, without washing. So far so good.

[MarcusRoyce]

how much does yours cost?

Mine i dont know what brand, but its made in china with a cartoon worm on it hahaa. it says ozone sterilize so i guess im fine. by the way, how long can they last? any expiry date? coz mine dont have.

Thanks for the info, though my fish dont seem so happy with it from a change of live tbx.

[Myron Tay]

The Hikari brand is a little pricier, but in my opinion, it is worth the extra cost.

I buy mine by the box, i.e. 12 trays, as I feel that I have better assurance as to the quality if I place them in my freezer (rather than leave them at the pet store). A box usually lasts me about a month or slightly more than a month.

[Fan Kei Lim]

quote:Originally posted by MarcusRoyce

i just bought frozen blood worms for 90cents, some packaging with chinese words i think.
do i have to wash these before feeding as well?


maybe dun have to sterilise them first lorr.
but next time jus get Hikari Frozen BloodWorms lah. :)
u will have less worries with Hikari.
btw, bettas love Frozen Brine Shrimps too. [gd]
i feed them Bio-Gold as a staple food... FD BloodWorms as treats... & Frozen Brine Shrimps once or twice weekly.

[Myron Tay]

New betta food from Ocean Nutrition endorsed by Atison: http://www.oceannutrition.com/products/atison/index.html

My adults take the Betta Food and Betta PRO readily. But as with all other dried foods, do not overfeed least it contaminates the water.

[Fan Kei Lim]

which fish shop sells Ocean Nutrition[?]

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

New betta food from Ocean Nutrition endorsed by Atison: http://www.oceannutrition.com/products/atison/index.html

My adults take the Betta Food and Betta PRO readily. But as with all other dried foods, do not overfeed least it contaminates the water.

[Myron Tay]

A great on-going discussion and sharing on the following thread: Betta Diet Regime - Arofanatics Fish Talk Forums

On a more personal note, I am beginning to question the benefits of a wide variety of foods for bettas. Some animals are specialists and thrive on only one type of food most of their lives e.g. pandas feed on only a specific type of bamboo leaves. I am beginning to think that is true of bettas. Adult bettas tend to either thrive even if fed on either bloodworms or tubifex alone.

Or is it a simple issue that given the short prime of bettas (typically about 3 months, when they are between 3 to 6 months), food variation plays a small role in determining the look of the betta at its prime?

Anyone with thoughts on this?