Live Tubifex Worms

[Foo Hong]

This food is both heaven <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle> and hell <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>

It is a fine food for fries after weening them off bbs and daphnia. Its attractiveness to fries make them gorge themselves and grow at an accelerated rate as a result. Fries are babies and babies we know need milk. Tubifex is milk to betta fries due to the high fat content.

Excessive feedings as the fish ages, however, can lead to undesirable buildup of fats in the bodies. As they lack certain vitamins, prolonged feeding on purely live tubifex leads the what i called the Roy's bettas <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>. I shall pass the baton to Roy to comment

[Samuel Phan]

Oooiii ....
Is this how you treat your betta buddy? <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Btw ... my fishes dun have the "Roy" symtoms ... but they
kinda develope dropsy if the water condition is allowed to worsen
with uneaten tubifex left in the tanks for long period.

quote:
This food is both heaven <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle> and hell <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>

It is a fine food for fries after weening them off bbs and daphnia. Its attractiveness to fries make them gorge themselves and grow at an accelerated rate as a result. Fries are babies and babies we know need milk. Tubifex is milk to betta fries due to the high fat content.

Excessive feedings as the fish ages, however, can lead to undesirable buildup of fats in the bodies. As they lack certain vitamins, prolonged feeding on purely live tubifex leads the what i called the Roy's bettas <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>. I shall pass the baton to Roy to comment




Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[roycheok]

Hoi...the fishes are now on intensive slimming program...
since sat...two days of light to no feeding and daily flaring...
hopefully that should lessen that hump.

somehow i am not fully convinced that its totally caused by feeding tubifex worms....my prev spawns did not show this characteristic
even when fed 100% worms.

[Foo Hong]

I have to believe it is more to do with your feeding program cos the fishes that bred them didnt look like that but most of your spawn turn out as fishes that resemble members of the pop group 'Boyz 2 men' <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

[roycheok]

hmm...feeding program...maybe. because i get so fedup that they grow so slowly...if i have the time, esp weekends...i may feed them up to 4 times a day with live tubifex....


quote:
I have to believe it is more to do with your feeding program cos the fishes that bred them didnt look like that but most of your spawn turn out as fishes that resemble members of the pop group 'Boyz 2 men' <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

[Samuel Phan]

Hahaha ... luckily your children are not over-fed like your betta. :)
quote:
hmm...feeding program...maybe. because i get so fedup that they grow so slowly...if i have the time, esp weekends...i may feed them up to 4 times a day with live tubifex....


quote:
I have to believe it is more to do with your feeding program cos the fishes that bred them didnt look like that but most of your spawn turn out as fishes that resemble members of the pop group 'Boyz 2 men' <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>







Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Foo Hong]

Heh the latest in amagazine from Jack Wattley on discus should apply to bettas too.

Says...feeding with a food that have for eg, 50% protein is far better if it is balanced [ ie with all essential amino acids, minerals, vitamins ] compared to another which may have 75% protein and unbalanced in essential stuffs. :)

So Roy, your diet[ yr bettas I mean ] should not be eating 'sharks-fin' everyday just because you can afford shark-fin <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

[Samuel Phan]

Hi Foo Hong,
In that case ... can you or anybody else in this forum throw some light on what constitute a balance diet for betta?

Blood Worms?
Flake Food?
Beef Heart?
Tubifex Worms?

With Best Regards,
Samuel Phan

quote:
Heh the latest in amagazine from Jack Wattley on discus should apply to bettas too.

Says...feeding with a food that have for eg, 50% protein is far better if it is balanced [ ie with all essential amino acids, minerals, vitamins ] compared to another which may have 75% protein and unbalanced in essential stuffs. :)

So Roy, your diet[ yr bettas I mean ] should not be eating 'sharks-fin' everyday just because you can afford shark-fin <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>




Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Foo Hong]

Balanced diet for bettas not same as for humans, for eg. bettas cannot be given vegetables and fruits during the 'keep healthy week'<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Hsu has a good friend Dr Fred Chua [ who was one of our judges ]. Think an answer coming from him is best.

[Samuel Phan]

Daphnia for fiber loh =)
So Morning eat daphnia
Afternoon eat tubifex/beef-heart
Then night time blood worms

So it is like fruits for breakfast, heavy lunch follow by a light dinner.

Sound good huh?

quote:
Balanced diet for bettas not same as for humans, for eg. bettas cannot be given vegetables and fruits during the 'keep healthy week'<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Hsu has a good friend Dr Fred Chua [ who was one of our judges ]. Think an answer coming from him is best.




Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Samuel Phan]

Any Updates?

Btw ... saw LFS selling flightless fruit-flies.
Wonder what they are mean for???

Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Samuel Phan]

There are pple that feed chopped TW to their fries ... my question is whether the TW when chopped will foul the water? And how readily the fries will feed on those life-less bodies of the chopped TW?

[Samuel Phan]

There are pple that feed chopped TW to their fries ... my question is whether the TW when chopped will foul the water? And how readily the fries will feed on those life-less bodies of the chopped TW?

[Foo Hong]

The chopped worms will still show a final wriggle so fries noticed them. yes they eat like no tomorrow never dies.

you shld 'slice' them, not chop on a chopping block like making durian pudding. if poss rinse before feeding.

[Foo Hong]

The chopped worms will still show a final wriggle so fries noticed them. yes they eat like no tomorrow never dies.

you shld 'slice' them, not chop on a chopping block like making durian pudding. if poss rinse before feeding.

[Samuel Phan]

Master Chef,

What is the diff between slicing and chopping? when they are so small already? Care to enlighten?

quote:
The chopped worms will still show a final wriggle so fries noticed them. yes they eat like no tomorrow never dies.

you shld 'slice' them, not chop on a chopping block like making durian pudding. if poss rinse before feeding.

[Samuel Phan]

Master Chef,

What is the diff between slicing and chopping? when they are so small already? Care to enlighten?

quote:
The chopped worms will still show a final wriggle so fries noticed them. yes they eat like no tomorrow never dies.

you shld 'slice' them, not chop on a chopping block like making durian pudding. if poss rinse before feeding.

[Foo Hong]

Before the food processor was invented, did you ever go into the kitchen and help your grandma chop up the pork meat when she needs to make Bak-Cho-Mee? You hammer your 2 knifes away on a wooden chopping block till the meat become something sort of being a meat paste.

Now you dont do that cos baby bettas do not eat bak-Cho-Mee...he!

Now you should use....or should I leave this for the next BCS newsletter?

[Foo Hong]

Before the food processor was invented, did you ever go into the kitchen and help your grandma chop up the pork meat when she needs to make Bak-Cho-Mee? You hammer your 2 knifes away on a wooden chopping block till the meat become something sort of being a meat paste.

Now you dont do that cos baby bettas do not eat bak-Cho-Mee...he!

Now you should use....or should I leave this for the next BCS newsletter?

[Samuel Phan]

Why not ... till then ... it is daphnia or Bah-Cho-Mee for my betta then =)

quote:
Now you should use....or should I leave this for the next BCS newsletter?

[Samuel Phan]

Why not ... till then ... it is daphnia or Bah-Cho-Mee for my betta then =)

quote:
Now you should use....or should I leave this for the next BCS newsletter?

[Foo Hong]

MAybe we should poll and see at what age do you stat feeding tubifex?

[Foo Hong]

MAybe we should poll and see at what age do you stat feeding tubifex?

[Chris Yew]

Do you guys clean your tubifex worms with MB? Hate the staining effect of the MB. Will your tubifex worms turn blue too, haha?

[Chris Yew]

Do you guys clean your tubifex worms with MB? Hate the staining effect of the MB. Will your tubifex worms turn blue too, haha?

[Samuel Phan]

Never use M-Blue for the TBW.
I merely wash them clean with tap water once in the morning and once after I reach home from work.

[Samuel Phan]

Never use M-Blue for the TBW.
I merely wash them clean with tap water once in the morning and once after I reach home from work.

[imported_n/a]

I wash the TBW each time before feeding them to the bettas.
And after hearing from Roy that he puts them in the fridge to prolong their lives, I began using ice cubes (=cool water) for keeping them overnight.
On age for feeding, once the fries are big enough to swallow them. Very ***-cheong to grow them up!

[imported_n/a]

I wash the TBW each time before feeding them to the bettas.
And after hearing from Roy that he puts them in the fridge to prolong their lives, I began using ice cubes (=cool water) for keeping them overnight.
On age for feeding, once the fries are big enough to swallow them. Very ***-cheong to grow them up!

[Samuel Phan]

I think basically all you need is a large container which allows the TBW to breath and at the same time place the container at a shaded/cool area.

I have been doing this and so far the TBW are able to survive up to abt 5 days or more.
PS: I leave the out-door.

[Samuel Phan]

I think basically all you need is a large container which allows the TBW to breath and at the same time place the container at a shaded/cool area.

I have been doing this and so far the TBW are able to survive up to abt 5 days or more.
PS: I leave the out-door.

[derrick kuah]

hi, to clean the tubeflexworm. what i do , is to take a big size net(finetype).put the net on a clean pail of water, with net half in water . then pour the worm into the net then leaves them for a few hours. by then all the" good worm "will be in the water leaving the rubbish in the net. hope ite help.mv

[derrick kuah]

hi, to clean the tubeflexworm. what i do , is to take a big size net(finetype).put the net on a clean pail of water, with net half in water . then pour the worm into the net then leaves them for a few hours. by then all the" good worm "will be in the water leaving the rubbish in the net. hope ite help.mv

[Samuel Phan]

hmmm ... may I know what net are you using? I mean the size of the hole in the net. Did you use the finest? If not ... wun the dirt falls to the bottom as well?

With Best Regards,
Samuel Phan

[Samuel Phan]

hmmm ... may I know what net are you using? I mean the size of the hole in the net. Did you use the finest? If not ... wun the dirt falls to the bottom as well?

With Best Regards,
Samuel Phan

[derrick kuah]

Hi sam, I used the finest you can find from lfs. i also used them to catch daphia.another advantage, the big worm will also stil in the net. those are the " troubles ,"i think. thank +derrick+

[derrick kuah]

Hi sam, I used the finest you can find from lfs. i also used them to catch daphia.another advantage, the big worm will also stil in the net. those are the " troubles ,"i think. thank +derrick+

[Samuel Phan]

Hi Derrick,

Thank Derrick ...

Will try this method out ... now I am still using my method to wash the TBW which can be a wastage of water. Approx 1 pail of water is used for a single water.
I am talking about $2-3 worth of woems that I am wahing.

With Best Regards,
Sam

[Samuel Phan]

Hi Derrick,

Thank Derrick ...

Will try this method out ... now I am still using my method to wash the TBW which can be a wastage of water. Approx 1 pail of water is used for a single water.
I am talking about $2-3 worth of woems that I am wahing.

With Best Regards,
Sam

[imported_n/a]

Hi Sam,

How big is the container for your $2-3 of worms? I once put $1 of worms in an ice-cream tub filled up with water and all died the next morning. Sad thing is, I've not even fed any single bit to my bettas! The ice seems to work though.


Rgds,
Kenneth

[imported_n/a]

Hi Sam,

How big is the container for your $2-3 of worms? I once put $1 of worms in an ice-cream tub filled up with water and all died the next morning. Sad thing is, I've not even fed any single bit to my bettas! The ice seems to work though.


Rgds,
Kenneth

[Samuel Phan]

$3 will be eactly one condensed milk tin without water.
I buy them from Tiong Bahru Mkt.
I can also get them at $3.50 near my place at Hillview.

[Samuel Phan]

$3 will be eactly one condensed milk tin without water.
I buy them from Tiong Bahru Mkt.
I can also get them at $3.50 near my place at Hillview.

[Myron Tay]

Toh Chen Han asked:

Hi,

Many of the experienced betta keepers advocate the use of live-foods, but at the same time such foods have had quite a bit of bad press, as the cause of dissease. Would like to know, for those of you who feed live food on a regular basis, have you been able to render the live food consistently 'safe'? If yes, how?

A few of my betta don't like frozen bloodworms (their staple at the moment) very much, but I'm really apprehensive about tubifex (which they've gobbled down on the few occasions I've tried). Is there a way of cleaning the live food so that you can say with, say 95% confidence, that it won't infect the fish?

Thanks

[Myron Tay]

Toh Chen Han asked:

Hi,

Many of the experienced betta keepers advocate the use of live-foods, but at the same time such foods have had quite a bit of bad press, as the cause of dissease. Would like to know, for those of you who feed live food on a regular basis, have you been able to render the live food consistently 'safe'? If yes, how?

A few of my betta don't like frozen bloodworms (their staple at the moment) very much, but I'm really apprehensive about tubifex (which they've gobbled down on the few occasions I've tried). Is there a way of cleaning the live food so that you can say with, say 95% confidence, that it won't infect the fish?

Thanks

[Myron Tay]

Phil Ngo replied:

Hi,

Ok all my live food is subjected to M.blue treatment without fail. For Tubifex and blood worm I would put them in a container with water and a high dose of M.blue. About 2 drops to 500 Ml of water. I use aeration to keep them alive. I allow them to be immersed in this media for about 3 hours before even feeding. For Daphnias the M Blue will usually kill them in about an hour. So just take out the portion that you want to use, treat it as advised and feed after 15 minutes by scooping them out and then feeding them to the fries.

[Myron Tay]

Phil Ngo replied:

Hi,

Ok all my live food is subjected to M.blue treatment without fail. For Tubifex and blood worm I would put them in a container with water and a high dose of M.blue. About 2 drops to 500 Ml of water. I use aeration to keep them alive. I allow them to be immersed in this media for about 3 hours before even feeding. For Daphnias the M Blue will usually kill them in about an hour. So just take out the portion that you want to use, treat it as advised and feed after 15 minutes by scooping them out and then feeding them to the fries.

[Myron Tay]

My opinion is that the long term affects of what is prescribed by Phil would result in the development of harmful organisms that would be resistant to M. blue. What shall we do then?

Personally, prefer frozen foods. But I really dread the day on which a freeze resistant virus comes out of this practice...:(

[Myron Tay]

My opinion is that the long term affects of what is prescribed by Phil would result in the development of harmful organisms that would be resistant to M. blue. What shall we do then?

Personally, prefer frozen foods. But I really dread the day on which a freeze resistant virus comes out of this practice...:(

[Toh Chen Han]

how nice if it worked the other way around...with bettas becoming more and more impervious to these common sicknesses like finrot, velvet etc. actually this may be happening slowly with each successive generation (natural selection?).

[Toh Chen Han]

how nice if it worked the other way around...with bettas becoming more and more impervious to these common sicknesses like finrot, velvet etc. actually this may be happening slowly with each successive generation (natural selection?).

[kennho]

From archive BettaHan, I ever wrote something on this topic .... slightly edited for here.

I am using this method since 4 yrs ago as I am using t.worm for other types of fishes and have to qurantine these worms intensively. The initial washing of worms are done with disinfectants like Detol and Listerine before putting them thru the pails. For the first few days, I am using tubs with ketapang leaves to feed these worms, then I transfer to a 2ft tanks with 4" water for keeping. I won't use the worms till 4 days after purchase and last me some 10 days or so.

Another method which is much more troublesome is the multi-layer netting
separator. Worms are place on net on the top layer and let them squeeze thru
and land on 2nd layer of net. A few layers for them to squeeze thru.
Normally leaving behind a lot of dirt at the top few layers. That's where u
take those dirt out and wash the nets. The worms will land themselves in the
bottom of the tank and feed on leaves. Done that once but too troublesome.

Method :

worms are washed under tap water first. Prepare a container abt 2L water with at least 5" height and pour in 20ml of listerine and 5ml detto solution. no need to use those mentol type lah. Normally I put the worms into a fine net and float the net on the container so the worms can wiggle thru the net and fall onto the base of the container. will take quite a while if you hv a lot of worms. don't overdose the disinfectant else the worms will die fast.

the dirt and dead worms will stay in the net while the live ones will be collected. wash these live worms under tap water and dip another round of disinfectant solution for 1/2 hour or so. wash thoroughly as disinfectant will be damaging to your fish. then place the worms in a 4" water height fresh clean water with lots of used ketapang leaves and bubble the water. normally i will place young betta in and feed all day round. i must admit i dun hv a lot of time to feed them 3x a day. that's the only way i can keep them growing fast.

normally i will wash them again after 2nd and 4th days to get rid of the waste products. after that, these worms will practically stay alive for quite an extended period of time and won't foul your house. feeding worms with dried leaves will make them turn dark brown instead of fresh red.

[kennho]

From archive BettaHan, I ever wrote something on this topic .... slightly edited for here.

I am using this method since 4 yrs ago as I am using t.worm for other types of fishes and have to qurantine these worms intensively. The initial washing of worms are done with disinfectants like Detol and Listerine before putting them thru the pails. For the first few days, I am using tubs with ketapang leaves to feed these worms, then I transfer to a 2ft tanks with 4" water for keeping. I won't use the worms till 4 days after purchase and last me some 10 days or so.

Another method which is much more troublesome is the multi-layer netting
separator. Worms are place on net on the top layer and let them squeeze thru
and land on 2nd layer of net. A few layers for them to squeeze thru.
Normally leaving behind a lot of dirt at the top few layers. That's where u
take those dirt out and wash the nets. The worms will land themselves in the
bottom of the tank and feed on leaves. Done that once but too troublesome.

Method :

worms are washed under tap water first. Prepare a container abt 2L water with at least 5" height and pour in 20ml of listerine and 5ml detto solution. no need to use those mentol type lah. Normally I put the worms into a fine net and float the net on the container so the worms can wiggle thru the net and fall onto the base of the container. will take quite a while if you hv a lot of worms. don't overdose the disinfectant else the worms will die fast.

the dirt and dead worms will stay in the net while the live ones will be collected. wash these live worms under tap water and dip another round of disinfectant solution for 1/2 hour or so. wash thoroughly as disinfectant will be damaging to your fish. then place the worms in a 4" water height fresh clean water with lots of used ketapang leaves and bubble the water. normally i will place young betta in and feed all day round. i must admit i dun hv a lot of time to feed them 3x a day. that's the only way i can keep them growing fast.

normally i will wash them again after 2nd and 4th days to get rid of the waste products. after that, these worms will practically stay alive for quite an extended period of time and won't foul your house. feeding worms with dried leaves will make them turn dark brown instead of fresh red.

[kennho]

I know you might wonder why I get so particular over the quarantine method. I am feeding t.worms to young discus and young goldfish to pump them up fast. I can't afford to lose any of them. Most of the time when I got new goldfish, the amount of worms required is quite a lot and I will not go thru this process. However, I develop my own quarantine process for fishes under the intensive t.worms feeding regime. All my betta fries after 3 wks go into a plastic tub filled with worms that can last about 7-10 days. Anyway, I am changing on average about 250-300L of water daily.

There is a problem with the method i am using - disinfectant. If din wash thoroughly, the fish somehow will be in very bad shape after eating. Normally cannot cure - gill burn.

[kennho]

I know you might wonder why I get so particular over the quarantine method. I am feeding t.worms to young discus and young goldfish to pump them up fast. I can't afford to lose any of them. Most of the time when I got new goldfish, the amount of worms required is quite a lot and I will not go thru this process. However, I develop my own quarantine process for fishes under the intensive t.worms feeding regime. All my betta fries after 3 wks go into a plastic tub filled with worms that can last about 7-10 days. Anyway, I am changing on average about 250-300L of water daily.

There is a problem with the method i am using - disinfectant. If din wash thoroughly, the fish somehow will be in very bad shape after eating. Normally cannot cure - gill burn.

[Foo Hong]

How can you put betta fries with worms lasting that long. the amt of TBs will cos over feeding, get bladder problems, distort its growth, shape etc....or do you do somethimng else over n above ken?

I once experimented on a tank of culls giving 24 hr supply of TBs. 90% of them had problems after 2 weeks. They need time to clear their bowels dont they?&gt;

[Foo Hong]

How can you put betta fries with worms lasting that long. the amt of TBs will cos over feeding, get bladder problems, distort its growth, shape etc....or do you do somethimng else over n above ken?

I once experimented on a tank of culls giving 24 hr supply of TBs. 90% of them had problems after 2 weeks. They need time to clear their bowels dont they?&gt;

[Dr Hsu]

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay


Personally, prefer frozen foods. But I really dread the day on which a freeze resistant virus comes out of this practice...:(


Sorry Myron, have bad news for you....freezing doesn't do anything to most viruses...Good news is that there aren't really many virus to worry about. Can't do anything about them anyway, so don't worry:D

[Dr Hsu]

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay


Personally, prefer frozen foods. But I really dread the day on which a freeze resistant virus comes out of this practice...:(


Sorry Myron, have bad news for you....freezing doesn't do anything to most viruses...Good news is that there aren't really many virus to worry about. Can't do anything about them anyway, so don't worry:D

[kennho]

Foo Hong, so far, I have problem with DT. Somehow, I noticed DT has smaller stomach compare to others ST type. And easily got into trouble if I do that. Most will become "sinking dt" as I actually cut them up to see the air bladder shorten by nearly half. From what I know is that under heavy feeding, the muscle growth and big swelling filled stomach distort the growth of the bladder that cause DT to have such problem. Sorry if anyone find it cruel to cut a live fish open .. paisey, I used to do that with discus last time.

For the rest, especially plakat, the growth is very fast. But at the 2 mth old, all will be out of such feeding and go into community tank and fed with pork heart, bloodworms and occasionally tbw and only once a day in the morning or jar up for observation.

Actually I observe that with full supply of worms in the tubs, the fishes dun really eat to their fill. Maybe for the initial day, but after a few days, they just eat and pass their motion and feed again but much less. I change water alternate day and have a peat based filter in it with banana leaves.

Another thing is that normally I only put in fries that have started to show the pelvic/ventral fins. Anyway, I read that missing ventral fins is not entirely due to such feeding of worms or bbs or microworms.

Oh, forgotten to mention, I using this method is actually not meant for betta. Mainly for goldfish.

[kennho]

Foo Hong, so far, I have problem with DT. Somehow, I noticed DT has smaller stomach compare to others ST type. And easily got into trouble if I do that. Most will become "sinking dt" as I actually cut them up to see the air bladder shorten by nearly half. From what I know is that under heavy feeding, the muscle growth and big swelling filled stomach distort the growth of the bladder that cause DT to have such problem. Sorry if anyone find it cruel to cut a live fish open .. paisey, I used to do that with discus last time.

For the rest, especially plakat, the growth is very fast. But at the 2 mth old, all will be out of such feeding and go into community tank and fed with pork heart, bloodworms and occasionally tbw and only once a day in the morning or jar up for observation.

Actually I observe that with full supply of worms in the tubs, the fishes dun really eat to their fill. Maybe for the initial day, but after a few days, they just eat and pass their motion and feed again but much less. I change water alternate day and have a peat based filter in it with banana leaves.

Another thing is that normally I only put in fries that have started to show the pelvic/ventral fins. Anyway, I read that missing ventral fins is not entirely due to such feeding of worms or bbs or microworms.

Oh, forgotten to mention, I using this method is actually not meant for betta. Mainly for goldfish.

[Foo Hong]

haha thats what I thot...goldfsh....say this is BCS not GCS.

I replied to someone on MBA forum. Overfeeding does affect the bladder as fries grow up. so dont ffed TBW like calling 19001126868.

[Foo Hong]

haha thats what I thot...goldfsh....say this is BCS not GCS.

I replied to someone on MBA forum. Overfeeding does affect the bladder as fries grow up. so dont ffed TBW like calling 19001126868.

[Myron Tay]

Thanks. I have learnt something new. But what about bacteria and other harmful organisms? Does freezing have any impact on them?

quote:Originally posted by Dr Hsu

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay


Personally, prefer frozen foods. But I really dread the day on which a freeze resistant virus comes out of this practice...:(


Sorry Myron, have bad news for you....freezing doesn't do anything to most viruses...Good news is that there aren't really many virus to worry about. Can't do anything about them anyway, so don't worry:D

[Myron Tay]

Thanks. I have learnt something new. But what about bacteria and other harmful organisms? Does freezing have any impact on them?

quote:Originally posted by Dr Hsu

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay


Personally, prefer frozen foods. But I really dread the day on which a freeze resistant virus comes out of this practice...:(


Sorry Myron, have bad news for you....freezing doesn't do anything to most viruses...Good news is that there aren't really many virus to worry about. Can't do anything about them anyway, so don't worry:D

[Myron Tay]

I think we are actually going against natural selection by choosing bettas not on the fittest but on other traits. This can be seen from the weakness of domesticated show bettas as compared to their wild counterparts.

quote:Originally posted by tohchenhan

how nice if it worked the other way around...with bettas becoming more and more impervious to these common sicknesses like finrot, velvet etc. actually this may be happening slowly with each successive generation (natural selection?).

[Myron Tay]

I think we are actually going against natural selection by choosing bettas not on the fittest but on other traits. This can be seen from the weakness of domesticated show bettas as compared to their wild counterparts.

quote:Originally posted by tohchenhan

how nice if it worked the other way around...with bettas becoming more and more impervious to these common sicknesses like finrot, velvet etc. actually this may be happening slowly with each successive generation (natural selection?).

[Foo Hong]

Correct Myron, hence reason for line crashing sometimes. So....I do also consider vitality of the breeder in addition to form n colour

[Foo Hong]

Correct Myron, hence reason for line crashing sometimes. So....I do also consider vitality of the breeder in addition to form n colour

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by David Esguerra

You could be mixing tubifex and bloodworms, to the untrained eye, they would look almost the same (except that the tubifex usually comes in longer bundles live).
David

Are we talking about the same thing? I would have thought that even the untrained person would be able to distinguish the two since bloodworms are thick and bright red, whilst tubifex are thin and brown?

[Sebas]

Bloodworm:
http://images.google.com.sg/imgres?imgurl=www.dbs.nus.edu.sg/research/fish/livefood/bloodwm.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.dbs.nus.edu.sg/research/fish/livefood/bloodwm.html&h=400&w=600&sz=49&tbnid=24EKGA2YuVEJ:&tbnh=88&tbnw=132&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbloodworm%2Bfish%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3D en%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8



Tubifex:
http://www.sfu.ca/~fankbone/v/tubifex.jpg
Tubifex will clump together to form a ball or odd shaped thingy. WHen touched, they will squeeze even tighter.
Bloodworms are bigger and 'juicier'. Body segments can be seen with the naked eye. THey wiggle alot and do not clump together.

[HoSiewThean]

any pic for the tubifex

[Sebas]

click on the link below tubifex

[Fabiano]

Do somebody know anything about put tubifex on milk to desinfection?

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by Fabiano

Do somebody know anything about put tubifex on milk to desinfection?
Yes, I have heard that placing tubifex worms in milk will make them lose the dirt they are clinging to. Have not tried it myself, though.

[jonpoh]

Yes.. You have to place a net over the tubifex worm in order for them to climb up from it. It is quite a tedious process...( for me and for the worms, literally)

regards
Jonathan


quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

quote:Originally posted by Fabiano

Do somebody know anything about put tubifex on milk to desinfection?
Yes, I have heard that placing tubifex worms in milk will make them lose the dirt they are clinging to. Have not tried it myself, though.

[Jing]

I am trying some experiments. I note that there is a trend (say dog keeping) of feeding medicine through food (dog food). So I am experimenting with using TW to deliver the medicine should my bettas get sick.

I am cleaning my TW culture with Methylene Blue or plain water etc..whenever I am free (say, 2 to 8 times a day -depend on my mood). Just roughly pour about 500ml of water or diluted MB (solution) from high height into TW container. The TW will disperse and form individual ringlets. Then drain water after TW settle on bottom and then drain until solution just cover the TW. If too much water, TW cannot get oxygen and the TW dies.


I have keep my TW alive for about 1 month now. I washed it with Methyl Blue, washed it with diluted internal bacteria medicine or diluted external bacteria medicine, etc..I believe that I can infuse enough medicine into the TW to feed my betta if they get sick.

I have been feeding my TW culture with good stuff, vitamin laden betta food pellets that betta generally do not like. Also, the Hikari daphnia with vitamins..so far the bettas have no problems from eating the cleaned TW which are vitamin enriched.

To feed TW, drain until very little water so that betta flakes/daphnia
settle directly on worms; let them get at food for about 10-15 mins and the food bits will be stuck onto the worms, then flush with water and drain about 2 or 3 times to wash away excess food (otherwise food will go bad, rot and consume the oxygen and the culture will go bad and stink and the worms will die). Feeding needs to be done once every 2 or 3 days.

I believe that I wash the worms too often and probably wash away their young (eggs?) and my TW culture is not growing but the population remains stable and there is no worm smell. I am not looking at culturing worms since they are cheap and easily available, but I believe it is an effective way to deliver medicine especially if there is internal bacteria and good way to feed vitamins into betta.

[Alex Lim]

hi jing,

this is an incredible method of medicine feeding, assuming that the medicine content is indeed consumed by the tubis.

i've something to ask, in dog food, it's already sterilised and since there's no live content (or organisms), the medicine probably will not be broken down. and probably the medicine will not be contaminated as well.

however, in live food, i'm not sure if the medicine will go undecomposed into non-medicinal byproduct. and risk of contamination?

care to share your insight?

[Fabiano]

Hi Jing,

I'm very interested on your method of keeping tubifex worm. That is the first time I read someone saying that can maintain the TBW alive for more than 10 days.
I would like to know what is the size of your tubifex container and if you use current water every time.
And what the water level height, because you said about getting oxigen.
I bought 1/2 kg yesterday, washed with current water for 2 hours, placed them in a container with 3 liters of clean water and injected air to raise the oxigen, but at morning, all were died.

[Jing]

My culture is much smaller than yours (say 50g) and I live in a warm tropical country but I hear that cooler weather is okay because it reduces their oxygen needs. I have researched on the net and found that you have to keep the TW like the local fish shop for them to survive i.e. with only 1 or 2 mm water covering the TW. This way all the worms are near the surface and the tails of the worms can wiggle near the surface of the water to get at the oxygen.

I keep my worms in a plain plastic (take-away) container and use normal tap water. These worms are hardly and do not need dechlorinated water (unless the tap water in your area is perculiar).

Uusally, I pour water from say 15cm high into the plastic container until there is about 6 cm of water depth. I let the worms settle and enjoy the fresh water for about 3 mins..you can see them looking happy (clustering together with their tails nicely separated and wiggling) then pour out the excess water (just tip container) until the worms are barely covered with water. Check the worms after 2 mins...sometimes the worms crawl up container or to dry part of container (probably wrongly following a moisture trail on the container as you drain away the water)..(they will eventually dehydrate and die off) and when I see worms in areas without water, I would splash some water until they are together with rest of worms and immersed in a small puddle of water.

I find that when it first come from the fish shop, they would stink so I do water change 3 or 4 times a day or whenever I am free to eliminate the smell (I am married) I also change water more often agfetr feeding them. I had so much fun, I did it every hour when I first had the culture.

In addition, since you have so much TW, i.e 0.5 kg, you have to ensure that the depth of your worms after pouring into a container is less than 1cm depth so that teh tails of the TW can get close to the water surface to get oxygen.



quote:Originally posted by Fabiano

Hi Jing,

I'm very interested on your method of keeping tubifex worm. That is the first time I read someone saying that can maintain the TBW alive for more than 10 days.
I would like to know what is the size of your tubifex container and if you use current water every time.
And what the water level height, because you said about getting oxigen.
I bought 1/2 kg yesterday, washed with current water for 2 hours, placed them in a container with 3 liters of clean water and injected air to raise the oxigen, but at morning, all were died.

[Jing]

Unfortunately (or rather, fortunately), my bettas are not sick and I have no opportunity to try out this concept. I cannot be sure of this idea of mine will work and I would not suggest using a precious betta to experiment unless it is the last resort or these are bettas that are meant to be culled. Perhaps others can try this when their betta is sick.

I also some some other thoughts (theory), since we do not want the bacteria to acquire immunity to the medicine/antibitotic, I would not recommend that the worms be permanently soaked in the diluted medication. Instead I would suggest only soaking the worms in normal water. I would stop feeding the worms about 2 or 3 days to reduce the bacteria count in the culture, wash thoroughly, then soak the worms in the medicine for 1/2 day before feeding the bettas. I would also try the conventional treatment by treating the betta's water. The wiggling worms might stimulate the betta's appetite while delivering more medication internally if they get eaten.

Maybe, I will buy some longkau fish (guppies meant to be fed to other larger fish) to try how much dilution of medication is required to soak the worms. I am thinking of using twice the medication to soak the worms and feeding the guppies to see if there is any adverse effect as an experiment.



quote:Originally posted by Alex Lim

hi jing,

this is an incredible method of medicine feeding, assuming that the medicine content is indeed consumed by the tubis.

i've something to ask, in dog food, it's already sterilised and since there's no live content (or organisms), the medicine probably will not be broken down. and probably the medicine will not be contaminated as well.

however, in live food, i'm not sure if the medicine will go undecomposed into non-medicinal byproduct. and risk of contamination?

care to share your insight?

[Alex Lim]

quote:Originally posted by Jing

Unfortunately (or rather, fortunately), my bettas are not sick and I have no opportunity to try out this concept. I cannot be sure of this idea of mine will work and I would not suggest using a precious betta to experiment unless it is the last resort or these are bettas that are meant to be culled. Perhaps others can try this when their betta is sick.

I also some some other thoughts (theory), since we do not want the bacteria to acquire immunity to the medicine/antibitotic, I would not recommend that the worms be permanently soaked in the diluted medication. Instead I would suggest only soaking the worms in normal water. I would stop feeding the worms about 2 or 3 days to reduce the bacteria count in the culture, wash thoroughly, then soak the worms in the medicine for 1/2 day before feeding the bettas. I would also try the conventional treatment by treating the betta's water. The wiggling worms might stimulate the betta's appetite while delivering more medication internally if they get eaten.

Maybe, I will buy some longkau fish (guppies meant to be fed to other larger fish) to try how much dilution of medication is required to soak the worms. I am thinking of using twice the medication to soak the worms and feeding the guppies to see if there is any adverse effect as an experiment.



quote:Originally posted by Alex Lim

hi jing,

this is an incredible method of medicine feeding, assuming that the medicine content is indeed consumed by the tubis.

i've something to ask, in dog food, it's already sterilised and since there's no live content (or organisms), the medicine probably will not be broken down. and probably the medicine will not be contaminated as well.

however, in live food, i'm not sure if the medicine will go undecomposed into non-medicinal byproduct. and risk of contamination?

care to share your insight?

]jing,

thanks for the clarification. please keep us updated on your research and application (hopefully, not on the bettas :D).

cheerZ,
alex

[Fabiano]

quote:Originally posted by Jing

My culture is much smaller than yours (say 50g) and I live in a warm tropical country but I hear that cooler weather is okay because it reduces their oxygen needs.




Hi Jim.

Warm tropical country? Hehehe, I live in Amazonia, maybe it can tell you how worm is here. Thank you very much about your explanation. It is very helpful. Now I know why my TBW died. I put too much water and they had drowned. Now I can do the right way.

Hugs

[Jing]

Brazil is a large country..you may be on a living on a mountainous area (Brazilian Highlands) and the weather could be cool at night e.g. Brasilia.

quote:Originally posted by Fabiano

quote:Originally posted by Jing

My culture is much smaller than yours (say 50g) and I live in a warm tropical country but I hear that cooler weather is okay because it reduces their oxygen needs.




Hi Jim.

Warm tropical country? Hehehe, I live in Amazonia, maybe it can tell you how worm is here. Thank you very much about your explanation. It is very helpful. Now I know why my TBW died. I put too much water and they had drowned. Now I can do the right way.

Hugs

[Eugene]

Hi Jing,

you ever tried not feeding your TW and maintaining them for 1 month?

[Jing]

My TW is about 6 weeks old. They are still alive. I note that if you do not feed them, the older and longer ones dies and the rest seems to be eating the dead ones and their own shit and the culture has a higher proportion of younger/smaller worms.

I think that keeping them alive for up to 1 week is possible without feeding but 1 month is probably too long unless you have really dirty water to start off with and do not drain it off and just top up with more water if water evaporated. But this is not advisable if you want to feed your betta.


quote:Originally posted by Eugene

Hi Jing,

you ever tried not feeding your TW and maintaining them for 1 month?

[Eugene]

Cool...Jing....

[Fabiano]

Hi Jing,

Forgive me if seemed coarse. It was not my intention. Brazil is really very big, with different weathers. It only was funny for me when you cited your case is a hot region, while it is my case too.
Well, going direct to the point of TBW, I found the way to maintain it. The information about water surface height was crucial.
What am I doing. low water surface height, ketapang leaves as food and 2 water changes every day. One at morning and the other at night. As the ketapang leaves have a bactericidal principle, it helps to descontaminate them.

Cheers

[Jing]

No offence taken. I saw the Hehehe clue in your answer. Glad that you solved the problem of keeping your worms alive. I do not know if ketapang leaves is food to the worms but so long as you use the worms within 1 or 2 weeks there is no need to feed it. You might like to feed it flakes if you are culturing the worms (see website on feeding TW: www.geocities.com/jasonmconder/culturing02SLC.pdf )

Good luck




quote:Originally posted by Fabiano

Hi Jing,

Forgive me if seemed coarse. It was not my intention. Brazil is really very big, with different weathers. It only was funny for me when you cited your case is a hot region, while it is my case too.
Well, going direct to the point of TBW, I found the way to maintain it. The information about water surface height was crucial.
What am I doing. low water surface height, ketapang leaves as food and 2 water changes every day. One at morning and the other at night. As the ketapang leaves have a bactericidal principle, it helps to descontaminate them.

Cheers

[Fabiano]

Hi Jing,

I discovered it this weekend, when the tubifex completed 2 weeks and started to dye, so, the ketapang leaves are not a good food, although they was eating the leaves voraciously. My lucky was that they were finishing.
Today I'll buy another 1/2 kg of tubi, and now problably they will last more time, so I'll have to feed them. I normaly have pate, a home made freeze food. It could help or I have to use only flake food? Thank you for the website information. It is very good.

Cheers

[Fan Kei Lim]

Hikari Betta Bio-Gold is a balanced diet for bettas & can be fed on a daily basis. bio-gold is pretty expensive... so instead i use another brand (Eejika Betta Food) which comes in tiny grains (unlike bio-gold's pellets). its also pretty good apparently coz' my betta jus slurps them all up.

imo, a diet of solely worms is not very healthy & should be fed to the fishy once every 2-3 days. :D
bettas need some fiber in their diet so they won't suffer from constipation.
this is why ppl feed their betta(s) a cooked pea if they have a bloated tummy & haven't been pooping for days.
anyways, freeze dried blood worms is a great alternative since tubi worms carry disease.
dun waste money getting freeze dried tubi worms in cubes coz' most bettas hate them. they would rather skip a meal than to eat them.

i use the Betta Food as a staple diet...
& occasionally feed freeze dried blood worms.


quote:Originally posted by Samuel Phan

Hi Foo Hong,
In that case ... can you or anybody else in this forum throw some light on what constitute a balance diet for betta?

Blood Worms?
Flake Food?
Beef Heart?
Tubifex Worms?

With Best Regards,
Samuel Phan

quote:
Heh the latest in amagazine from Jack Wattley on discus should apply to bettas too.

Says...feeding with a food that have for eg, 50% protein is far better if it is balanced [ ie with all essential amino acids, minerals, vitamins ] compared to another which may have 75% protein and unbalanced in essential stuffs. :)

So Roy, your diet[ yr bettas I mean ] should not be eating 'sharks-fin' everyday just because you can afford shark-fin :D




Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)