Dropsy

[Samuel Phan]

Hi Guys,

Care to share on your experience in treating dropsy?
Also ... can someone also share on why dropsy occurs?
water condition? temperature shock? bacteria attack?

With Best Regards,
Samuel Phan

Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Samuel Phan]

My betta experience dropsy when the water condition is filthy. Or when they are in community tank where water is left un-changed for a long period of time.

So far ... there is no cure for my betta that contacted dropsy.

Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Chris Yew]

This should be a good read on Dropsy;
http://www.bettasrus.com/diseases/Dropsy.htm

Chris Yew

<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>

[Samuel Phan]

Thanks Chris ...

quote:
This should be a good read on Dropsy;
http://www.bettasrus.com/diseases/Dropsy.htm

Chris Yew

<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>




Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Dr Hsu]

I take a pretty poor attitude towards dropsy - i don't treat....waste of time.

This is, of course, assuming that it's true dropsy, not just an enlarged abdomen. True dropsy will also have the pine coning effect.

Hate to admit it but I can pretty much make it happen. Although no one really knows the true reason for dropsy (perhaps because it is not a defined disease but a common name for a set of symptoms), I do see it with spawns that I have ignored after selecting out the better fish. These fish are left in tanks/urns of their original water (with water plants) and are often left without feeding or water changes. If they don't die of polluted water, I can pretty much predict that they will get a swollen body and sometimes the pine cone body. It, however, seems different from traditional dropsy as the fish are often still active and feeding, at least till close to the end. Right now I have the remnants of a yellow spawn (all turned out red/cambodian red etc - see, unknown female!) that I just saw was starting to develop this condition - if you want to see, just come over :)



Regards,

Li Chieh
"Good judgement is based on experience, and much of that is based on prior bad judgement!"
"The more I know, the more I know that there is more that I don't know!"

[Samuel Phan]

You are right ... same thing occurs to my spawns too.
It is normally after the selections that the remaining of the spawns are left in their grow-out tanks.

We in-frequent water change ... dropsy often occur. This is despite the fact that the water is crystal clear with lots of plants to clarify the water.

quote:
I take a pretty poor attitude towards dropsy - i don't treat....waste of time.

This is, of course, assuming that it's true dropsy, not just an enlarged abdomen. True dropsy will also have the pine coning effect.

Hate to admit it but I can pretty much make it happen. Although no one really knows the true reason for dropsy (perhaps because it is not a defined disease but a common name for a set of symptoms), I do see it with spawns that I have ignored after selecting out the better fish. These fish are left in tanks/urns of their original water (with water plants) and are often left without feeding or water changes. If they don't die of polluted water, I can pretty much predict that they will get a swollen body and sometimes the pine cone body. It, however, seems different from traditional dropsy as the fish are often still active and feeding, at least till close to the end. Right now I have the remnants of a yellow spawn (all turned out red/cambodian red etc - see, unknown female!) that I just saw was starting to develop this condition - if you want to see, just come over :)



Regards,

Li Chieh
"Good judgement is based on experience, and much of that is based on prior bad judgement!"
"The more I know, the more I know that there is more that I don't know!"


Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Samuel Phan]

Just like Dr Hsu ... I dun treat them.
I just scoop them up and feed them to the Luo Han.

This is in order to shorten their agony.

Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Foo Hong]

I have a tankful of abt 40 in a 2 ft tank whose water has not been changed since soft launch...no dropsy leh? In fact I am making this my experiment, only topping up evaporated water. Feed once a day, lots of decaying leaves, occasional dead insects falling into the tank....and what have you.

Doc Hsu....why?

[Dr Hsu]

40 in a 2 ft tank - nothing lah! try 60-100!!!

Regards,

Li Chieh
"Good judgement is based on experience, and much of that is based on prior bad judgement!"
"The more I know, the more I know that there is more that I don't know!"

[Samuel Phan]

How about 1000 in 2 ft.
Result ... all die.
My experience.

quote:
40 in a 2 ft tank - nothing lah! try 60-100!!!

Regards,

Li Chieh
"Good judgement is based on experience, and much of that is based on prior bad judgement!"
"The more I know, the more I know that there is more that I don't know!"


Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Foo Hong]

1000 in 2ft tank is like a packed football stadium playing the final match!

[Samuel Phan]

Ha! and now I am doing it again ... <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

HM Marble Plakat spawn: more than 500 (1 week)
- in 2 ft tank

Steel Blue DTM X Royal Blue STF: more than 500 (1.5 week)
- in 1 ft tank

But will move them to 5 ft tank soon so that history do not repeat itself. Previously had same large spawn that only ended up with about 100 grown up fries.



quote:
1000 in 2ft tank is like a packed football stadium playing the final match!




Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Dr Hsu]

Sam,

What are you feeding your fish?!! Viagra???:)

How come you always end up with these multiple of hundreds spawn?? Lately I would be doing well if I get 100+!

Regards,

Li Chieh

"Good judgement is based on experience, and much of that is based on prior bad judgement!"
"The more I know, the more I know that there is more that I don't know!"

[Chris Yew]

You are 40 while Sam is less than 40! LOL!

Chris Yew

quote:
Sam,

What are you feeding your fish?!! Viagra???:)

How come you always end up with these multiple of hundreds spawn?? Lately I would be doing well if I get 100+!

Regards,

Li Chieh

"Good judgement is based on experience, and much of that is based on prior bad judgement!"
"The more I know, the more I know that there is more that I don't know!"

[Samuel Phan]

Hahahaha .... <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Btw ... I not involved in the spawning process hor!!!

The reason why I have large spawns is because I use the very large females. Simple?

If you see the Marble MG female that I brought for the meeting?? ... that is normally the kinda females that I use. Most of the time they are larger than the males.

quote:
You are 40 while Sam is less than 40! LOL!

Chris Yew

quote:
Sam,

What are you feeding your fish?!! Viagra???:)

How come you always end up with these multiple of hundreds spawn?? Lately I would be doing well if I get 100+!

Regards,

Li Chieh

"Good judgement is based on experience, and much of that is based on prior bad judgement!"
"The more I know, the more I know that there is more that I don't know!"





Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Foo Hong]

I know that tubifex is one big culprit of dropsy, if not properly washed. So if you have a 'weak' heart, dont use tubifex.

[Phil]

I treat my tubifex with a high dose of MB. At least, immersed them for an hour with the airator running. I do not encounter any problems feeding my fish with tubifexs.

[Samuel Phan]

Yes ... with proper cleaning .. they are actually a good source of food. And they are cheap and easy.

Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Daniel Toh]

Dear all,

erm, this is my virgin posting (#1), pls pardon me if iI happen to ask questions which have already been answered or hv answers that can be readily found on the web.

I suppose there are various stages of dropsy. From wat i observe, it seems to progress with the following symptoms: the fish gets lethargic,loses appetite gradually, and you see a whitish streak of faeces that refuses to drop off fr the anus, belly swells, and the scales pop.

I'm quite determined to save one of my rather 'pretty' females that hs gotten to the stage of losing appetite/whitish shit. Without deference to Dr Hsu's opinion, let me ask this question - can't any of the commercial medication get rid of this disease? Maracyn 2? Or any household/folklore type medication?

Now, let's say it's completely hopeless, is the disease contagious? Can I still get it to spawn without posing any danger to my male before it dies ? I mean, I know this is kinda desperate, but I'm that desperate![V]




quote:Originally posted by Dr Hsu

I take a pretty poor attitude towards dropsy - i don't treat....waste of time.

This is, of course, assuming that it's true dropsy, not just an enlarged abdomen. True dropsy will also have the pine coning effect.

Hate to admit it but I can pretty much make it happen. Although no one really knows the true reason for dropsy (perhaps because it is not a defined disease but a common name for a set of symptoms), I do see it with spawns that I have ignored after selecting out the better fish. These fish are left in tanks/urns of their original water (with water plants) and are often left without feeding or water changes. If they don't die of polluted water, I can pretty much predict that they will get a swollen body and sometimes the pine cone body. It, however, seems different from traditional dropsy as the fish are often still active and feeding, at least till close to the end. Right now I have the remnants of a yellow spawn (all turned out red/cambodian red etc - see, unknown female!) that I just saw was starting to develop this condition - if you want to see, just come over :)



Regards,

Li Chieh
"Good judgement is based on experience, and much of that is based on prior bad judgement!"
"The more I know, the more I know that there is more that I don't know!"

[Daniel Toh]

Dear all,

erm, this is my virgin posting (#1), pls pardon me if iI happen to ask questions which have already been answered or hv answers that can be readily found on the web.

I suppose there are various stages of dropsy. From wat i observe, it seems to progress with the following symptoms: the fish gets lethargic,loses appetite gradually, and you see a whitish streak of faeces that refuses to drop off fr the anus, belly swells, and the scales pop.

I'm quite determined to save one of my rather 'pretty' females that hs gotten to the stage of losing appetite/whitish shit. Without deference to Dr Hsu's opinion, let me ask this question - can't any of the commercial medication get rid of this disease? Maracyn 2? Or any household/folklore type medication?

Now, let's say it's completely hopeless, is the disease contagious? Can I still get it to spawn without posing any danger to my male before it dies ? I mean, I know this is kinda desperate, but I'm that desperate![V]




quote:Originally posted by Dr Hsu

I take a pretty poor attitude towards dropsy - i don't treat....waste of time.

This is, of course, assuming that it's true dropsy, not just an enlarged abdomen. True dropsy will also have the pine coning effect.

Hate to admit it but I can pretty much make it happen. Although no one really knows the true reason for dropsy (perhaps because it is not a defined disease but a common name for a set of symptoms), I do see it with spawns that I have ignored after selecting out the better fish. These fish are left in tanks/urns of their original water (with water plants) and are often left without feeding or water changes. If they don't die of polluted water, I can pretty much predict that they will get a swollen body and sometimes the pine cone body. It, however, seems different from traditional dropsy as the fish are often still active and feeding, at least till close to the end. Right now I have the remnants of a yellow spawn (all turned out red/cambodian red etc - see, unknown female!) that I just saw was starting to develop this condition - if you want to see, just come over :)



Regards,

Li Chieh
"Good judgement is based on experience, and much of that is based on prior bad judgement!"
"The more I know, the more I know that there is more that I don't know!"

[Samuel Phan]

From the BettaTalk provided by Dr Fred Chua ... it was mentioned that dropsy can come in 2 forms.

1) Internal bacteria attack which reduce the fishes ability to pass water out of the body. Thus excessive water retention which gave the pine look. For this, it can be contagious.

2) Broken water proof seal of the fish body caused by injury or bacteria attack. The latter can also be contagious.

Using low concentration of salt do help to ease the water retention problem in most situation.

I am now doing an experiment with also another nice female that have the dropsy symptom. Salt was used and she is still eating well and swimming happily in the salt solution. It has been 4 weeks and she is still okie but with the scale protrusion still visible.

From your description of water faeces ... seems like it is a case of internal bacteria attack. Handle with care so that it does not affect your other fishes.

[Samuel Phan]

From the BettaTalk provided by Dr Fred Chua ... it was mentioned that dropsy can come in 2 forms.

1) Internal bacteria attack which reduce the fishes ability to pass water out of the body. Thus excessive water retention which gave the pine look. For this, it can be contagious.

2) Broken water proof seal of the fish body caused by injury or bacteria attack. The latter can also be contagious.

Using low concentration of salt do help to ease the water retention problem in most situation.

I am now doing an experiment with also another nice female that have the dropsy symptom. Salt was used and she is still eating well and swimming happily in the salt solution. It has been 4 weeks and she is still okie but with the scale protrusion still visible.

From your description of water faeces ... seems like it is a case of internal bacteria attack. Handle with care so that it does not affect your other fishes.

[Daniel Toh]

Thanks for the info, Samuel. Hv you had any experience with the commercial medications ? There are quite a number out there that purports to extinguish dropsy. I think there are a good number that's not worth the try...tried this azoo brand with another dropsy victim that has now gone to the grave, it din help a single bit.

[Daniel Toh]

Thanks for the info, Samuel. Hv you had any experience with the commercial medications ? There are quite a number out there that purports to extinguish dropsy. I think there are a good number that's not worth the try...tried this azoo brand with another dropsy victim that has now gone to the grave, it din help a single bit.

[kennho]

Daniel, Dropsy is one of those multiple bacterial, parasites infection. Practically a combination of everything. Some how, dropsy are happening on smaller fishes like tetra but very seldom heard on bigger fishes.

Like what Sam has posted, I would make some additional info ..

Salt usage at 3% to 5% (3 gram/Litre to 5gram). Once the fish start to get active from lethargic behaviour, reduce to 1% salt.

As for the white faeces, it's parasites eating their nice meal at the intestines. Yummy like kwek chay. Just continue to feed the fish with good food (if it still eating), and use an internal parasites solution at double dose. Also handle with great care, possible contagious.

Something to take note for dropsy : Most of the time, I don't even bother to cure. But will test the water for possible increase in toxicity elements. If you often got such diease, do check your water quality and possible feeding method and water change schedule.

[kennho]

Daniel, Dropsy is one of those multiple bacterial, parasites infection. Practically a combination of everything. Some how, dropsy are happening on smaller fishes like tetra but very seldom heard on bigger fishes.

Like what Sam has posted, I would make some additional info ..

Salt usage at 3% to 5% (3 gram/Litre to 5gram). Once the fish start to get active from lethargic behaviour, reduce to 1% salt.

As for the white faeces, it's parasites eating their nice meal at the intestines. Yummy like kwek chay. Just continue to feed the fish with good food (if it still eating), and use an internal parasites solution at double dose. Also handle with great care, possible contagious.

Something to take note for dropsy : Most of the time, I don't even bother to cure. But will test the water for possible increase in toxicity elements. If you often got such diease, do check your water quality and possible feeding method and water change schedule.

[Samuel Phan]

Yep ... we can always rely on ken for the technicalities ... :)

Same as well ... I dun usualy treat my dropsy fishes ... they normally end up in my culling machines' stomach the moment the symptoms are detected.

And yep ... seems like the big fishes are not affected at all ... despite gulping down the disease fishes.

[Samuel Phan]

Yep ... we can always rely on ken for the technicalities ... :)

Same as well ... I dun usualy treat my dropsy fishes ... they normally end up in my culling machines' stomach the moment the symptoms are detected.

And yep ... seems like the big fishes are not affected at all ... despite gulping down the disease fishes.

[kennho]

Sam dun "swan" me leh. Anyway, I just heal a louhan that caught dropsy. Interesting right ? The only source : live fish food. I guess we all knew that t.worms are one of the possible source of infection but we took the risk to feed them. That's why I have been very careful when disinfecting worms. Anyway, what happens to that Detox thing by Dr Fred Chua. And whoever is using diluted PP for all the water. Actually I am quite interested in long term PP usage.

Prevention is better than cure. Most of the time when our fishes are sick, can always trace back to something we have done not too long ago.

[kennho]

Sam dun "swan" me leh. Anyway, I just heal a louhan that caught dropsy. Interesting right ? The only source : live fish food. I guess we all knew that t.worms are one of the possible source of infection but we took the risk to feed them. That's why I have been very careful when disinfecting worms. Anyway, what happens to that Detox thing by Dr Fred Chua. And whoever is using diluted PP for all the water. Actually I am quite interested in long term PP usage.

Prevention is better than cure. Most of the time when our fishes are sick, can always trace back to something we have done not too long ago.

[Samuel Phan]

Not "swan" you ... but always amaze with your details when answering questions. I personally never go to such depths. Not in fish ... not in studies and not in life.

Life seems much simpler for me ... :)

Regarding the Detox ... I think Foo Hong will be the best person to talk to ... I think he tried using it on his fishes. Results? Unknown.

[Samuel Phan]

Not "swan" you ... but always amaze with your details when answering questions. I personally never go to such depths. Not in fish ... not in studies and not in life.

Life seems much simpler for me ... :)

Regarding the Detox ... I think Foo Hong will be the best person to talk to ... I think he tried using it on his fishes. Results? Unknown.

[Foo Hong]

Errrhmmm.........Detox? Why on this thread? Look for the thread!

[Foo Hong]

Errrhmmm.........Detox? Why on this thread? Look for the thread!

[Daniel Toh]

Thks for the advise rendered...maybe it's the tubifex.didn't do any detoxing,gotta check out the detox thread(thks foo hong).

anyway, with the sea salt n befuran, the whitish faeces have stopped. but the lady is still lethargic.will continue n observe...man, this is really like chemotherapy.

[Daniel Toh]

Thks for the advise rendered...maybe it's the tubifex.didn't do any detoxing,gotta check out the detox thread(thks foo hong).

anyway, with the sea salt n befuran, the whitish faeces have stopped. but the lady is still lethargic.will continue n observe...man, this is really like chemotherapy.

[Steven Cheng]

Hi guys, I normally do not try treating dropsy but recently one of my very nice and precious yellow female from Samuel became a pine cone. I used Interpet Anti Internal Bacteria to treat it. I re-dosed every four days according to the instruction in the box. After four doses, the fish recovered. I intend to spawn it soon just in case it dies before producing any offspring.

[Steven Cheng]

Hi guys, I normally do not try treating dropsy but recently one of my very nice and precious yellow female from Samuel became a pine cone. I used Interpet Anti Internal Bacteria to treat it. I re-dosed every four days according to the instruction in the box. After four doses, the fish recovered. I intend to spawn it soon just in case it dies before producing any offspring.

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by kennho

quote:Originally posted by Kelvin Tan

dropsy!

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/kelvin tan/200352710142_img_4121.jpg

Kelvin, I saw this photo already. It's a very bad case of internal damages. Even if it's not dead, it's hopeless to save. If you can do an autopsy, the internal organ should have rot badly.

As for old age, img_4004, I have no idea how to improve old fish health. hey, I have yet keep any fish that old. hahahaha. Maybe later when I consider keeping some of mine spawn till old.

[Myron Tay]

Here's a thread on Dropsy remedies: http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=686