What is the best spawn size?

[Samuel Phan]

Recently I have been very fortunate to be able to get 2 very large spawn for my Extended Red and Steel Blue spawn ... but it did turn out too well.

Most of the fishes are under-norish and mortality rate is exceptionally high as compared to the smaller spawns.

I suspect that it could be due to the large spawn size which makes it difficult to maintain.

In my personal opinion ... and also agreed by Lin that a spawn size not exceeding 300 will be a better number.

Any comments?

With Best Regards,
Samuel Phan

Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Dr Hsu]

Wah....300, so many! For me, ideal size to maintain is 60-100 or so. Downside is that you don't have the numbers to play with thus improvement in your lines will be more difficult!

Conversely, too small a spawn is sometimes also disadvantageous - my one fry from yellow CT spawn was growing up really nicely and then I think I overfed it! Died <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>



Regards,

Li Chieh
"Good judgement is based on experience, and much of that is based on prior bad judgement!"

[Samuel Phan]

Hmmm ... but 60 - 100 ... no meat leh.
dun you think is too few???

Btw ... sorry to hear abt your yellow CT fry ... must have been a beauty for you to mention him.

As for mine ... the Opaque spawn did have a few good ones but the plakat spawn is not ideal with lots of CT being threw out.

With Best Regards,
Samuel Phan

quote:
Wah....300, so many! For me, ideal size to maintain is 60-100 or so. Downside is that you don't have the numbers to play with thus improvement in your lines will be more difficult!

Conversely, too small a spawn is sometimes also disadvantageous - my one fry from yellow CT spawn was growing up really nicely and then I think I overfed it! Died <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>



Regards,

Li Chieh
"Good judgement is based on experience, and much of that is based on prior bad judgement!"


Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Dr Hsu]

Yes, it's a little small but then with a large spawn, I don't think I have the time to manage them well so in the end, the average quality of the whole spawn will suffer (I'm not a good culler so find it difficult to cull spawns early).

If I have large cement tanks like Ah San, then I would go for 300-500 spawn size.

Regards,

Li Chieh
"Good judgement is based on experience, and much of that is based on prior bad judgement!"
"The more I know, the more I know that there is more tha I don't know!"

[Foo Hong]

I dont think there is an ideal spawn size. More is merrier in that there are more good fishes to select!

Of cos you need to stand by a couple of terrapins and Luohans and Oscars.

[Samuel Phan]

Hey ... u have forgotten your Soon Hock.
But with a bigger spawn ... growing them up is a lot of effort.
You will need many tanks just to house them.

quote:
I dont think there is an ideal spawn size. More is merrier in that there are more good fishes to select!

Of cos you need to stand by a couple of terrapins and Luohans and Oscars.




Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Foo Hong]

I just fried the soon hock last week...taste good in soya sauce.

So hows da red spawn babies? My terrapins seem to like red bettas more!

[Samuel Phan]

Errr ... Soon Hock fed with betta and was fried and eaten???
Errr ... to be frank ... I got mental barrier to overcome for that ... *FAINT*

Anyway .... my red spawn did not do well. Reason could be the large spawn size that I do not have experience in handling. So I think I have only about 50 reds from a spawn of abt 500 or more. Even for those that survived ... dun think they are very healthy too. (PS: The blue spawn did better although they both survived in the same tank)

That is why ... I am doing another 2 red spawn now.
- Lin's Cambodian Red Male X Straits Extended Red Female
- Extended Red CT Pair

Will keep you and your terrapins updated on the progress,
Samuel Phan

quote:
I just fried the soon hock last week...taste good in soya sauce.

So hows da red spawn babies? My terrapins seem to like red bettas more!




Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Foo Hong]

What wrong with frying the soon hock? The cantonese says " sek tark mm hou sai ".

[Samuel Phan]

<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Hope that they taste good then.

quote:
What wrong with frying the soon hock? The cantonese says " sek tark mm hou sai ".




Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Samuel Phan]

Just to provide some info on large spawn size ...
As mentioned I had large spawns before ... to be exact 4 spawns.

Irids Spawn #1: 800
Irids Spawn #2: 1000
Marble Plakat Spawn: 1000
Extended Red Spawn: 800

Although the number above seems large ... the end results are less than satisfying.

For almost 4000 fries above ... I ended up with only less than 100 fries in total. This is a far-cry from some of my smaller spawns that I could take better care off.

Also the feeding of the fries can be very expensive too ... a $4 daphnia is only enough for 1 day of feeding and they are hungry again. And with excessive intoduction of daphnia which might carry disease ... the fries tend to have high mortality rate as show in the figures above.

With Best Regards,
Samuel Phan

Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Chris Yew]

Unless one is a commercial guy or fish farm operator, personally I feel that for home breeders - the best manageable size is not more than 100 fries.

Chris Yew

[Foo Hong]

also depeds, when you have a consistent line, 100 will do.

when you are outcrossing n working yr line. IMO, at least 200 will be better for selection.

[Samuel Phan]

But somehow I am still very facinate by large spawn ...
but beginning to realise that a large spawn is not so desirable afterall.

Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Foo Hong]

Large spawns have their advantage. Choice of selection is wider.

In fact I was think of getting some large tubs and try to spawn fat females for 1000+ fries like Ah san and see hows the result. Gonna basically make it like a natural pond

[Samuel Phan]

Agree ... but they are difficult to take care.

I have also tried what you mentioned ... creating natural "ponds" using large fibre-glass tanks. But so far the results are non-conclusive ...

I think one problem I have is that I dun know how to create the "green" water that Ah San has. I think he used chicken feed and some other critter cultures to create the grow-out tank 2 weeks prior to the hatching of the fries.

So far din try that because they look too messy.

quote:
Large spawns have their advantage. Choice of selection is wider.

In fact I was think of getting some large tubs and try to spawn fat females for 1000+ fries like Ah san and see hows the result. Gonna basically make it like a natural pond



Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Foo Hong]

green water is very easy to culture.

any darn thing organic in the water plus sunlight will give you infusoria. I suggest you check the water you have outdoors with a torch light...should have plenty on the surface.

One simple way is to throw lettuce/kangkong/pak choi/kailan/etc into the water! if you want beta-carotene, you can add carrot juice also..<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

[Samuel Phan]

Might try that ... but now waiting for my Irids spawns to be successful.

- Steel STF X Royal STM

Both with 8 rays and out-curling outer-most ray.

quote:
green water is very easy to culture.

any darn thing organic in the water plus sunlight will give you infusoria. I suggest you check the water you have outdoors with a torch light...should have plenty on the surface.

One simple way is to throw lettuce/kangkong/pak choi/kailan/etc into the water! if you want beta-carotene, you can add carrot juice also..<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>




Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by Phoebe Tan

Hi everyone

I am new to this hobby and I love it lots! :)

Some questions in mind, perhaps they have been asked already (i'm sure they have been asked). But I would appreciate your patience and share your views:-

1) Mother betta would produce about 100 to 400 eggs during every session of spawning. Would believe a portion of these eggs would grow into little bettas. That could be around 50 to 300 little ones. What is the percentage likely that they would survive their first 3 months?The survival rate varies depending on the care provided. It ranges from 0% to about 90%.

quote:2) if they do survive to 3 months, it could be a challenge to house them. Do you give them away, 'kill' (sorry... this sounds bad) the ones that are not that nice etc?

thanks
Personally, I do not advocate flushing them down the toilet. I would place them in a pond at my father's home. Alternatively, they could be used to feed arowanas or other large fishes.

[Vanice Yap]

Under 400 of top quality fries is the best, but about half or more should be remove b4 they start fighting each other and if the breeder intend to classify the fries it should be done when they are seperating the bettas from fighting.
There are two parts in seperating the fries.
First seperation can take place as early as 2-3 weeks time where there is size difference in the fries. Take out all the small ones for them to grow in a different tank. This is to let them have a higher chance to get enough food and grow well.
Second seperation take place around 6 weeks onwards when the big ones start bullying and put them in individual containers.