Breeding "marbles'

[Foo Hong]

Think there was another thread on marbles but then no harm having one here. This is not the little balls you play when you re young, nor are they the tiles on the floor of your home....these are bettas<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

When I was a child, I always like bettas which have fanciful colours. Of cos in those days, the colours were a result of 'fluke-shot' rather than proper breedings.

For those who are unfamilar, yes, bettas do show colours in patches in a random manner. Each fish differs in teh pattern - no 2 identical fishes. Usually, the 'background colour' is light on teh body and the fins are either white ro clear background. These are then overlayed with blotches of darker colours which can be blue, green, steel, black or even red or brown. Much like Kois and very cool in my opinion <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>.

Marbles x marbles = marbles. But wait, marbles x something else may also give you some marbles in the F1.....strange ? <img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>

Teh best colours I ve seen both in real lief fishes and over the net are those of Kevin Pellitter of bubblenest, and those in an IBC show[dont know whos were those]. Finnages wish they tend to be very poor compared to irids lines. The Thais are trying to get some good form marbles but it seems theirs is more to the Butterfly pattern than true Marbles.

[Samuel Phan]

Foo Hong,

How are your marbles doing? The finnage of them when I last saw them was fantastic ... have the marbled out already?

With Best Regards,
Samuel Phan

quote:
Think there was another thread on marbles but then no harm having one here. This is not the little balls you play when you re young, nor are they the tiles on the floor of your home....these are bettas<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

When I was a child, I always like bettas which have fanciful colours. Of cos in those days, the colours were a result of 'fluke-shot' rather than proper breedings.

For those who are unfamilar, yes, bettas do show colours in patches in a random manner. Each fish differs in teh pattern - no 2 identical fishes. Usually, the 'background colour' is light on teh body and the fins are either white ro clear background. These are then overlayed with blotches of darker colours which can be blue, green, steel, black or even red or brown. Much like Kois and very cool in my opinion <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>.

Marbles x marbles = marbles. But wait, marbles x something else may also give you some marbles in the F1.....strange ? <img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>

Teh best colours I ve seen both in real lief fishes and over the net are those of Kevin Pellitter of bubblenest, and those in an IBC show[dont know whos were those]. Finnages wish they tend to be very poor compared to irids lines. The Thais are trying to get some good form marbles but it seems theirs is more to the Butterfly pattern than true Marbles.




Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Foo Hong]

There is all in all about 4 to 5 shades of colours, steel, green, blue, blackish, a bit reddish...rojak. None marbled yet. Hope its not a let down! A few look like they will BF instead of marble.

Problem is quite a few are short bodied. Culled a few with poor ray definitions.....

Jon Poh , did yours marbled?

[Foo Hong]

Just an update on the marble spawn development. Well maybe I chose the parents with the forms instead of the marbling pattern for spawning. 3 months old now but smallish due to under feeding. None marbled yet! <img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>

better still ....90% males..errrrr!!!!!!!!!!!<img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle>

Only consolation is that 2 males[identical colours somehow] have achived near HM form, resembling the Richard Yu line in finnage. However, the piece that is around 175 degree has a slightly shorter body.

[Samuel Phan]

Sometimes really envy your spawns ... always got nice outcomes.
As for mine ... only beginning to get better.

Hope to acheive your kinda standard asap ... and of cos with the help of right breeding stocks which I have yet to master the art of choosing fish for breeding.

With Best Regards,
Samuel Phan
quote:
Just an update on the marble spawn development. Well maybe I chose the parents with the forms instead of the marbling pattern for spawning. 3 months old now but smallish due to under feeding. None marbled yet! <img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>

better still ....90% males..errrrr!!!!!!!!!!!<img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle>

Only consolation is that 2 males[identical colours somehow] have achived near HM form, resembling the Richard Yu line in finnage. However, the piece that is around 175 degree has a slightly shorter body.




Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Foo Hong]

Jia Lat.....

while a few reasonably nice fishes emerged from my latest effort on marbles...these F2 s ....none have marbled so far! <img src=icon_smile_dead.gif border=0 align=middle>. there goes 6 months of wasted effort.<img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle>

Going to F3 soon <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>

[roycheok]

FH...your F2 spawn...is it with sibling pair or did you outcross
with another line? dun tell me my own marble spawn (royal blue male x
marble female from straits) is going to be like yours...no more marbles...


quote:
Jia Lat.....

while a few reasonably nice fishes emerged from my latest effort on marbles...these F2 s ....none have marbled so far! <img src=icon_smile_dead.gif border=0 align=middle>. there goes 6 months of wasted effort.<img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle>

Going to F3 soon <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>

[Foo Hong]

The fishes from the 1st spawn had a few fishes that are very nice in form. I will bring a few to the AGM. can tell from the whitish.clear edges on the fins that the genetics of the marble is hiding there. Maybe F3 will marble but I am not sure.
A second spawn now growing up, bred from same mother but different father[uncle actually..ha!] seem to have a chance of a few marbles. much smaller at moment , can see the head having areas with a lighter tone.

Of cos I line breed lah. Cross to irids for what....scar-lee screw up..ha! I still have that mother fish n I may cross it to opaque to see if the cambodian gene will do some funny thing.
Anyway, which royal male did u cross that female to?

[roycheok]

crossed with royal blue from straits.
but i think the female carry some red...saw the fry having red wash

[jonpoh]

You mean I did not tell you...!!!
The marble male died the next day, after eating all the eggs. The stomache couldn't contain all the eggs..

The female died 2 weeks later..

But I did have Mr Sunpetch's marbles to spawn.

regards
Jonathan Poh

quote:
There is all in all about 4 to 5 shades of colours, steel, green, blue, blackish, a bit reddish...rojak. None marbled yet. Hope its not a let down! A few look like they will BF instead of marble.

Problem is quite a few are short bodied. Culled a few with poor ray definitions.....

Jon Poh , did yours marbled?


<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>

jonathan

[jonpoh]

Roy..

Relaxzzz. Will have marbles ones.. F1s should already have. If you are lucky enough you will get marbles in F2s too. Unless you follow Mr Kong's style by choosing the fishes with no marbles traits at all.
A guide line will be to choose fishes with piebald features.
Good luck!

regards
Jonathan Poh

quote:
crossed with royal blue from straits.
but i think the female carry some red...saw the fry having red wash




jonathan

[Foo Hong]

Yes think with marbles you need phenos, not genos. I think marbles work differently from normal punnet laws so forget the F1/2/3 think. dont follow the mistake I made <img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle>

Another problem. Had 2 spawns of F2 from pair #1 and 1 spawn of F2 from pair #2. both sibling pairs[same female in both case ]. Pair #1[2 spawns].....no females at all in the spawn.....hit the wall big time/
spawn #2.....so far only saw 3 females in the spawn......female marbles crisis here! what happen? Cant be that bad my luck!<img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle>

[Foo Hong]

Roy,
How da Marbles? ada females tak?

[jonpoh]

Foo Hong,

That sounds like big time trouble to me... .. What happen?
I think your fishes really have no respect for "George Mendal" ah!!!... Even sex ratio also wants to go against his law..
Anyway....I think the best idea is to crown the 3 females as Queen.. ..and 1st and 2nd concubines.. before they start eloping..

regards
Jonathan Poh


quote:
Yes think with marbles you need phenos, not genos. I think marbles work differently from normal punnet laws so forget the F1/2/3 think. dont follow the mistake I made <img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle>

Another problem. Had 2 spawns of F2 from pair #1 and 1 spawn of F2 from pair #2. both sibling pairs[same female in both case ]. Pair #1[2 spawns].....no females at all in the spawn.....hit the wall big time/
spawn #2.....so far only saw 3 females in the spawn......female marbles crisis here! what happen? Cant be that bad my luck!<img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle>




jonathan

[Foo Hong]

Just outcrossed a marble geno male today .....

[Foo Hong]

What causes marbling?
Virus causes marbling?
Does Marbling in bettas follow same principle as that in other animals?
Can we 'fix' the marbling gene?
Can we get 100% marbles in a M x M spawn?
How about M x Mgeno?
Or Mgeno x Mgeno?
Do M follow the Mendley s law of genetic inheritance?
Does M bettas generally have inferior finnage/form?
How many types of M [ ie colour phenos ] are there?

Can someone give me the answers <img src=icon_smile_shy.gif border=0 align=middle>! cos I dont have them...