Raising CTs

[Phil]

Hi Guys,

I am really glad to know that many more of you have taken an interest in CTs and do hope that I can help you resolve some of the problems that you may encounter. I must profess that I am no guru but perhaps am a little more fortunate that I have the opportunity of meeting and exchanging notes with some of Indonesia's top breeders and writers on bettas. So much for the introduction. Lets Begin:

Lets start with the 2 basic requirements in keeping Bettas: water and food.

Water: With the courtesy of Dr Hsu's test kit I was flabbergasted when I discovered that Indonesian City Water supply is generally soft water. I registered a 3 in my test compared to a 6 (Singapore's water)for General hardness and Carbonate hardness. From what I understand the water collection points are in the mountain areas of Bogor. It could also perhaps be because(I am speculating)there are no indications of limestone caves in the West Java region. If I am not mistaken apart from the mountanious regions West Java is mainly made up of alluvial deposits., especially in areas around the catchment areas. What Dr Hsu had said is generally that Jakarta water is good for CTs. This is perhaps why even my HMs start developing rays in Jakarta.

Feeding:

All Breeders in Jakarta, including my partner and I use live feed for our bettas. When the fries hatch, no feeding is done except from what is derived naturally from plants like water lettuce. Daphnias are being fed from as early as a week old. Then when the fies are about a month old they are being fed with TBW. TBW are being given to the fries daily up to 2 months of age. Fries are fed twice daily in small proportions. Once the fries are above 2 months, they are only fed once on TBW. The second feeding is being replaced by mosquito larva (ML). Once the fries are 3 months of age and above they are only fed once a day on ML. There is high usage of Daphnia, TBW and ML because these are basically free. Natures gift to betta hobbist. Bloodworms are rarely used because they are not in abundance in Jakarta. Anyway most Indonesian Betta breeders swears by ML.

[Phil]

Right let's move on to another topic Upkeeping the CTs. Curl finnage does occur in indonesia despite the water condition as well. My Indonesian gurus professed that this is due to the water being too cold or cool. Whatever it is, at the first sign of curling, the first treatment to be administered is to use the sun. Natures wonder cure. It works on some occassion but not all. Simply put it is just Warming up the water and the betta by exposing them to sunlight for about half an hour daily.

A more effective treatment, however, is the use of a water flow system. Somehow or other the current in the water helps prevent the rays from curling. If you guys had noticed at the exhibition, i had placed a 4.5 mths old MGCT with hardly any curled rays. I brought this fish back to Singapore about 3 months ago and under normal conditions its rays should have curled, because it was on a rather this side being a DDR. Somehow it survived the ordeal but there were some deterioration of the tip of the fins due to Singapore's water condition. Oh I must add that Indonesian water has much less chemical content than ours.

Well I beleive this should be enough for starters. Do let me know what other aspect of raising CTs you would be interested in.
cheers to all
Phil

[Brandon Chia]

that means keeping CT needs:
1)Clean, Aged, well condition water
2)Warm Conditions, which also means tat keep in air con room is no good for CTs

[Phil]

Oh yes, never ever keep a CT in an aircon room. You are bound to have problems with curl fins and if the water gets too colod the betta itself is like to develop velvet.

[Brandon Chia]

velvet i dunno.. but i know that in air con room they veri lethargic like that....

you CT siao also?? have any good collection for sale?? maybe next time can go see see.. :)

veri few ct fanatics around nowadays

[kennho]

Brandon, Phil is our Indonesia Jakarta breeder !!! You sure you want to go see see Phil farm ? Go Priceline.com book an air ticket first. The saving might be able to buy a few fishes ... kekekeke

Anyway, I do notice that thinning related to water temperature. Most of my cts are keep near window. The fries are keep since young in a barrack with constant water flow. However, as for water parameters, I still very unsure of the softness does has effect on this problem.

Singapore water should read somewhere near 4-6dH around the west and north-east of the island and as low as 1dH at the central. Probably have to look at the heavy metal contents that might be an issue. Looks like softening the water slight might help.

[Phil]

Yes our water has a lot of heavy metal content and chemical additives and this may have to do with rays thinning. I have experienced this with Bettas that i have brought back from Indonesia. It just thins and thins out. That is why I keep a large tub of water and just allow the water to settle as long as posssible. But what I do noticed is that age water helps in keeping the rays in shape. The CT bettas that displayed at the exhibition were my experimental bettas. Its been in Singapore for 3 mths already and though it is now 5 months it still shows no sign of curling or rays thinnning. But there is a slight deterioration of fins at the caudal tips. I keep that betta in my improvised filter system of my VA chiclids so that there is constant water flow and never a 100% water change.

[kennho]

Phil, how's the water flow rate ? I recalled FH or someone mentioned 3L/Hr .. I actually did one on my barrack but somehow, the flow is so slow that the ammonia actually build up. Now redesigning the flow system to see what I could get.

One of the ct that I place in my 4ft tank is in perfect condition, straight thick rays. Compare to those jarred ones are no way near. But the caudal spread seems compromised - not big as it swim more tediously in a larger area and deeper water. Waiting for my next batch to grow and dump them in large pond.

So we have a few things :
- remove heavy metal
- remove chemicals (likely chlorine, ammonia)
- larger tanks, not too deep
- provide flow and filter
- small regular water change

now, how about mineral supplements ?

[Phil]

Ken, I must confess that I am not as sophisticated as you. My betta is actually placed in my powerhead filteration system. Caudal spread has probably been affected because you have not been flaring it...am i right? For Caudal spread the best method of ensuring good caudal spread in big tanks is to use 1 of your females, put it into a plastic bag, tie up the bag with some air trapped in it as well and expose it to the guy in the tank. That should keep his andralin flowing and maintain his caudal. For mineral suppliment. That is never heard off in Jakarta. LOL Remember its cheap and natural way of betta keeping

[kennho]

hahahaha, why I never think of putting a female in ... roger roger ...

let me work on my latest batch and see what I can come out with ...... waiting game.

[Phil]

Wish you luck.[ber]

quote:Originally posted by kennho

hahahaha, why I never think of putting a female in ... roger roger ...

let me work on my latest batch and see what I can come out with ...... waiting game.

[Brandon Chia]

eh yah hor... phil is co owner of exotic bettas rite???

hey!! i looking for you!!! i wanna buy MG CT.. you got them as a pair???

[Phil]

Brandon, I do have them in pairs but the females are expensive because releasing them both is releasing the entire line. I usually release the male at a cheaper price so that each of you can move towards your own goal and create your own line. Hence I need to exercise control over the mumber of females released. i hope that you can understand that.

[kennho]

That's what I call a big timer ! Phil, forgotten to ask you, what's the pH of your water (if you can measure). Any website that I can read about Indonesia Water Work or the companies supplying the public water ?

[Brandon Chia]

what's the price range like?? ay be can pm me?? coz i need to see if my budget allows that..dun wan to waste $$ buy liaoz then dun breed..

[Phil]

Hi Brandon, Ok I will page you on the price of the MGCT bettas.

[Fahmi]

hmm so quiet.... any updates in indo bro phil?????

[Fahmi]

hmm so quiet.... any updates in indo bro phil?????

[Phil]

Well there are not many good CTs available in the market now because a lot of the betta breeders have turned to breeding Louhans... I am just one of the few rare steadfast one.. Just love the bettas too much to give it up. I also do have a few friends who are still in bettas. competitions are also rarely hosted now, in indonesia, so good CT bettas will get more difficult to obtain, in the near future. Hope this helps.

[Phil]

Well there are not many good CTs available in the market now because a lot of the betta breeders have turned to breeding Louhans... I am just one of the few rare steadfast one.. Just love the bettas too much to give it up. I also do have a few friends who are still in bettas. competitions are also rarely hosted now, in indonesia, so good CT bettas will get more difficult to obtain, in the near future. Hope this helps.

[Phil]

sorry ken, a thousand apologies,[ag] I missed your post. Ph of water in Jkt is 7. We normally add ketapang leaves to bring it down to 5 -6. Hope this helps.

quote:Originally posted by kennho

That's what I call a big timer ! Phil, forgotten to ask you, what's the pH of your water (if you can measure). Any website that I can read about Indonesia Water Work or the companies supplying the public water ?

[Phil]

sorry ken, a thousand apologies,[ag] I missed your post. Ph of water in Jkt is 7. We normally add ketapang leaves to bring it down to 5 -6. Hope this helps.

quote:Originally posted by kennho

That's what I call a big timer ! Phil, forgotten to ask you, what's the pH of your water (if you can measure). Any website that I can read about Indonesia Water Work or the companies supplying the public water ?

[kennho]

quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

sorry ken, a thousand apologies,[ag] I missed your post. Ph of water in Jkt is 7. We normally add ketapang leaves to bring it down to 5 -6. Hope this helps.


Thanks phil. I got hold of some info as well. More like now tally with what I think of.

Another thing Phil, in a ct spawn, how's a % of getting pretty reasonable good/sellable fish ?

I noticed from my spawn, very low % are up to my expectation.

[kennho]

quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

sorry ken, a thousand apologies,[ag] I missed your post. Ph of water in Jkt is 7. We normally add ketapang leaves to bring it down to 5 -6. Hope this helps.


Thanks phil. I got hold of some info as well. More like now tally with what I think of.

Another thing Phil, in a ct spawn, how's a % of getting pretty reasonable good/sellable fish ?

I noticed from my spawn, very low % are up to my expectation.

[Brandon Chia]

quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

Well there are not many good CTs available in the market now because a lot of the betta breeders have turned to breeding Louhans... I am just one of the few rare steadfast one.. Just love the bettas too much to give it up. I also do have a few friends who are still in bettas. competitions are also rarely hosted now, in indonesia, so good CT bettas will get more difficult to obtain, in the near future. Hope this helps.


Have to agree, The CT crowd are starting to dissolve liaoz.. I went to a few shops and sad to see the CTs are not really that good.. It seems now the craze is plakats. The price for CTs also dropping quite fast.. :(

Have a feeling HMs maybe the next to decline in popularity

Guess s'pore ppl are just too busy.. Dun have too much time to care for the Long tail bettas. Plakats are easier to take care and also more variaties.. :)

Hope more good cts will appear in the market.. :)

[Brandon Chia]

quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

Well there are not many good CTs available in the market now because a lot of the betta breeders have turned to breeding Louhans... I am just one of the few rare steadfast one.. Just love the bettas too much to give it up. I also do have a few friends who are still in bettas. competitions are also rarely hosted now, in indonesia, so good CT bettas will get more difficult to obtain, in the near future. Hope this helps.


Have to agree, The CT crowd are starting to dissolve liaoz.. I went to a few shops and sad to see the CTs are not really that good.. It seems now the craze is plakats. The price for CTs also dropping quite fast.. :(

Have a feeling HMs maybe the next to decline in popularity

Guess s'pore ppl are just too busy.. Dun have too much time to care for the Long tail bettas. Plakats are easier to take care and also more variaties.. :)

Hope more good cts will appear in the market.. :)

[Lim Aik Seng]

i agree with u
i now feel the plaket have more variaties
alot more nowadays

[Lim Aik Seng]

i agree with u
i now feel the plaket have more variaties
alot more nowadays

[kennho]

Actually CT is the only "force" flowing in me.

Brandon, probably due to the difficulties to maintain the rays and also to breed real good one really quite tough.

[kennho]

Actually CT is the only "force" flowing in me.

Brandon, probably due to the difficulties to maintain the rays and also to breed real good one really quite tough.

[Phil]

Yes CTs are a challenge. That is why I find it remarkable when comments are made that so and so is going to bring in X number of king Crowns. Sounds more like factory produced. Just getting a good CT is pain staking and I must say that my retention rate per spawn is only 10 males and 10 females. The rest are treated as culls. In my view the beauty is still in the CT and the opportunities too. How many quality opaque or yellow CTs have you seen? Till now - none! The challenge is there for you to create it.

[Phil]

Yes CTs are a challenge. That is why I find it remarkable when comments are made that so and so is going to bring in X number of king Crowns. Sounds more like factory produced. Just getting a good CT is pain staking and I must say that my retention rate per spawn is only 10 males and 10 females. The rest are treated as culls. In my view the beauty is still in the CT and the opportunities too. How many quality opaque or yellow CTs have you seen? Till now - none! The challenge is there for you to create it.

[widykiswanto]

Phil, may I know what is your criteria for quality CT ???

What is your comment about these two CTs at this website :
http://host.deluxnetwork.com/~inbsc/gallery.htm

wd

[widykiswanto]

Phil, may I know what is your criteria for quality CT ???

What is your comment about these two CTs at this website :
http://host.deluxnetwork.com/~inbsc/gallery.htm

wd

[Brandon Chia]

quote:Originally posted by kennho

Actually CT is the only "force" flowing in me.

Brandon, probably due to the difficulties to maintain the rays and also to breed real good one really quite tough.



glad to see still got CT fanatics around..

Hope to learn more bout CTs and the Standard for 'Show Quality'

Guess for now onli Phil can 'enlighten' us. He is the CT guru rite?? If got Pics to show even more best.

:)

[Brandon Chia]

quote:Originally posted by kennho

Actually CT is the only "force" flowing in me.

Brandon, probably due to the difficulties to maintain the rays and also to breed real good one really quite tough.



glad to see still got CT fanatics around..

Hope to learn more bout CTs and the Standard for 'Show Quality'

Guess for now onli Phil can 'enlighten' us. He is the CT guru rite?? If got Pics to show even more best.

:)

[Brandon Chia]

Let me start the ball rolling. Any comments on this fish? Need to know what is the 'traits' of a standard CT. It's mine btw but feel free to comment. I can here to learn :)

http://www.arofanatics.com./members/yoshiki_81/blackredct/image03.jpg

[Brandon Chia]

Let me start the ball rolling. Any comments on this fish? Need to know what is the 'traits' of a standard CT. It's mine btw but feel free to comment. I can here to learn :)

http://www.arofanatics.com./members/yoshiki_81/blackredct/image03.jpg

[Ong Ginyew]

whao.....nice fish.

[Ong Ginyew]

whao.....nice fish.

[Phil]

Yes in terms of finnage your fish is much better Brandon than those by the INBSC winners. But Brandon your fish would be better if the end caudal split just one more top and bottom and the webbing is slightly wider between DR. So it is still not the perfect betta. I hope you don't mind a truthful report. But in terms of colors, the yellow and the opaque is rare and that is probably about the only reason why they won. The DDR yellow needs more splits top and bottom. Anyway I do know Joty.

[Phil]

Yes in terms of finnage your fish is much better Brandon than those by the INBSC winners. But Brandon your fish would be better if the end caudal split just one more top and bottom and the webbing is slightly wider between DR. So it is still not the perfect betta. I hope you don't mind a truthful report. But in terms of colors, the yellow and the opaque is rare and that is probably about the only reason why they won. The DDR yellow needs more splits top and bottom. Anyway I do know Joty.

[Foo Hong]

heh Phil, you didnt tell the guys yr secret? The first time I see CTs running on a threadmill...[eb]

[Foo Hong]

heh Phil, you didnt tell the guys yr secret? The first time I see CTs running on a threadmill...[eb]

[Brandon Chia]

quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

Yes in terms of finnage your fish is much better Brandon than those by the INBSC winners. But Brandon your fish would be better if the end caudal split just one more top and bottom and the webbing is slightly wider between DR. So it is still not the perfect betta. I hope you don't mind a truthful report. But in terms of colors, the yellow and the opaque is rare and that is probably about the only reason why they won. The DDR yellow needs more splits top and bottom. Anyway I do know Joty.


Do you mean that the tail spread should be wider rite? Thanxs for the comments.Will take note these when i get CTs. Can you please post a perfect CT pic for reference. I will be able to get a better picture with regards to your comments.

And I dun mind a truthful report from anyone, whether good or bad i will take it as a lesson learnt.

Hope more CT pics to be posted here for discussion

Cheers,
Brandon

:)

[Brandon Chia]

quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

Yes in terms of finnage your fish is much better Brandon than those by the INBSC winners. But Brandon your fish would be better if the end caudal split just one more top and bottom and the webbing is slightly wider between DR. So it is still not the perfect betta. I hope you don't mind a truthful report. But in terms of colors, the yellow and the opaque is rare and that is probably about the only reason why they won. The DDR yellow needs more splits top and bottom. Anyway I do know Joty.


Do you mean that the tail spread should be wider rite? Thanxs for the comments.Will take note these when i get CTs. Can you please post a perfect CT pic for reference. I will be able to get a better picture with regards to your comments.

And I dun mind a truthful report from anyone, whether good or bad i will take it as a lesson learnt.

Hope more CT pics to be posted here for discussion

Cheers,
Brandon

:)

[Phil]

Yeah, since FH has mentioned what he saw when he came over and saw my set up, "Betta Fitness Club" which was actually used and proven on Malcom's MGCT, I will let you guys in on this. Generally it was what i told Ken about using power heads to create water flow to toughen up the fish.My theory is simply that if a betta can still flare under strong water flow conditions, it will certainly have more zap and outlast any betta in flaring under normal condition. I don't put them for a few hours in what FH calls a betta treadmill but for at least 3 days to toughen them up.

[Phil]

Yeah, since FH has mentioned what he saw when he came over and saw my set up, "Betta Fitness Club" which was actually used and proven on Malcom's MGCT, I will let you guys in on this. Generally it was what i told Ken about using power heads to create water flow to toughen up the fish.My theory is simply that if a betta can still flare under strong water flow conditions, it will certainly have more zap and outlast any betta in flaring under normal condition. I don't put them for a few hours in what FH calls a betta treadmill but for at least 3 days to toughen them up.

[Phil]

Yes tail spread should be of superdelta spread as a minimum requirement and splits needs to be even. Your first split between 1st set of rays and 2nd set of ray is not deep enough. The webbing holding the splits of the last 4 botton set of rays is also not wide enough. Ideally should be as wide as the middle ray set. As for photos, my camera is up in Jkt. but I will try and post a close to perfect CT for you, when i come across it. Perhaps you could refer to the Purple Gas Half Sun that I posted under Genetics - Mustard Gas on 15 Mar 2003 would be a better example of what I am trying to say but it's still not perfect.

cheers

[Phil]

Yes tail spread should be of superdelta spread as a minimum requirement and splits needs to be even. Your first split between 1st set of rays and 2nd set of ray is not deep enough. The webbing holding the splits of the last 4 botton set of rays is also not wide enough. Ideally should be as wide as the middle ray set. As for photos, my camera is up in Jkt. but I will try and post a close to perfect CT for you, when i come across it. Perhaps you could refer to the Purple Gas Half Sun that I posted under Genetics - Mustard Gas on 15 Mar 2003 would be a better example of what I am trying to say but it's still not perfect.

cheers

[Brandon Chia]

Phil,

Sorry but i still dun really get what you mean.. I will repost my pics with reference point to facilite easier understandin

Is this the Pic you refering to as a more desireable CT??

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/photoalbum/Phil%20Ngo/Halfsun.jpg

Regards,
Brandon
quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

Yes tail spread should be of superdelta spread as a minimum requirement and splits needs to be even. Your first split between 1st set of rays and 2nd set of ray is not deep enough. The webbing holding the splits of the last 4 botton set of rays is also not wide enough. Ideally should be as wide as the middle ray set. As for photos, my camera is up in Jkt. but I will try and post a close to perfect CT for you, when i come across it. Perhaps you could refer to the Purple Gas Half Sun that I posted under Genetics - Mustard Gas on 15 Mar 2003 would be a better example of what I am trying to say but it's still not perfect.

cheers

[Brandon Chia]

Phil,

Sorry but i still dun really get what you mean.. I will repost my pics with reference point to facilite easier understandin

Is this the Pic you refering to as a more desireable CT??

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/photoalbum/Phil%20Ngo/Halfsun.jpg

Regards,
Brandon
quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

Yes tail spread should be of superdelta spread as a minimum requirement and splits needs to be even. Your first split between 1st set of rays and 2nd set of ray is not deep enough. The webbing holding the splits of the last 4 botton set of rays is also not wide enough. Ideally should be as wide as the middle ray set. As for photos, my camera is up in Jkt. but I will try and post a close to perfect CT for you, when i come across it. Perhaps you could refer to the Purple Gas Half Sun that I posted under Genetics - Mustard Gas on 15 Mar 2003 would be a better example of what I am trying to say but it's still not perfect.

cheers

[Brandon Chia]

Phil,

I've Edited Pic for easier understanding, can again please tell me what a better CT should have by using the reference points.

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/brandon%20chia/200342521030_SAMPLE.JPG

Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif SAMPLE.JPG (http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/brandon chia/200342521030_SAMPLE.JPG)
58.09?KB
For now i onli understand:

A:-
B:-
C:-
D:-
E:- Must be as wide a possible, SD or wider

[Brandon Chia]

Phil,

I've Edited Pic for easier understanding, can again please tell me what a better CT should have by using the reference points.

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/brandon%20chia/200342521030_SAMPLE.JPG

Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif SAMPLE.JPG (http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/brandon chia/200342521030_SAMPLE.JPG)
58.09?KB
For now i onli understand:

A:-
B:-
C:-
D:-
E:- Must be as wide a possible, SD or wider

[Phil]

Yes but this betta still has its flaws. Concentrate your attention only on the top 4 sets of rays of the CT. Please don't take into consideration the DDR splits on some of the rays, but focus more on ray length and spread of the webbing. In my opinion it is this type of split spreads that are close to ideal spreads. Ideally this should be the type of spread I would want from top to bottom. The broadness of the split is also what I would seek. In fact you will noticed that the features are close to the king crown type of splits except that they don't cross. When you compare it with your Black orchid, top 3 sets of split. you would notice that the 1st two set of split is webbed. This is what you will have to attempt to remove in your next generation, to improve on the quality of your CT. Likewise the bottom set of splits of the caudal also needs improvement. This is not an easy task. I do have some Red CT fries with very good splits but the webbing of the top and bottom of the caudal finnage were also fused and this is a sore point. Note the webbed Caudals on top and bottom caudal of the fry. These are undesirable.

Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif CTredcrt-fry.jpg (http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/phil ngo/2003425213155_CTredcrt-fry.jpg)
20.69?KB

[Phil]

Yes but this betta still has its flaws. Concentrate your attention only on the top 4 sets of rays of the CT. Please don't take into consideration the DDR splits on some of the rays, but focus more on ray length and spread of the webbing. In my opinion it is this type of split spreads that are close to ideal spreads. Ideally this should be the type of spread I would want from top to bottom. The broadness of the split is also what I would seek. In fact you will noticed that the features are close to the king crown type of splits except that they don't cross. When you compare it with your Black orchid, top 3 sets of split. you would notice that the 1st two set of split is webbed. This is what you will have to attempt to remove in your next generation, to improve on the quality of your CT. Likewise the bottom set of splits of the caudal also needs improvement. This is not an easy task. I do have some Red CT fries with very good splits but the webbing of the top and bottom of the caudal finnage were also fused and this is a sore point. Note the webbed Caudals on top and bottom caudal of the fry. These are undesirable.

Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif CTredcrt-fry.jpg (http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/phil ngo/2003425213155_CTredcrt-fry.jpg)
20.69?KB

[kennho]

There is no fix length of where to where must be what. The important for me, using the pic of what Brandon edited,

A - across all the other rays must be same length by visual
B - gap between each set of rays must be same distant by visual
C - outer web to edge of all rays must be same length by visual
D - inner web to edge of must be same length by visual

Thus it form a outer circle for all the protruding rays, a 2nd inner circle by means of C and a 3rd circle by means of D.

There are more ... especially on the anal fin.

[kennho]

There is no fix length of where to where must be what. The important for me, using the pic of what Brandon edited,

A - across all the other rays must be same length by visual
B - gap between each set of rays must be same distant by visual
C - outer web to edge of all rays must be same length by visual
D - inner web to edge of must be same length by visual

Thus it form a outer circle for all the protruding rays, a 2nd inner circle by means of C and a 3rd circle by means of D.

There are more ... especially on the anal fin.

[Phil]

Yes Ken the anal fin is also important in a competition, but in this case brandon's sample fish looks acceptable. I Can't make out some of the splits though.

[Phil]

Yes Ken the anal fin is also important in a competition, but in this case brandon's sample fish looks acceptable. I Can't make out some of the splits though.

[Brandon Chia]

with your pic i have a better understanding now.. But this trait seems abit like KC spltting. Am i rite?
quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

Yes but this betta still has its flaws. Concentrate your attention only on the top 4 sets of rays of the CT. Please don't take into consideration the DDR splits on some of the rays, but focus more on ray length and spread of the webbing. In my opinion it is this type of split spreads that are close to ideal spreads. Ideally this should be the type of spread I would want from top to bottom. The broadness of the split is also what I would seek. In fact you will noticed that the features are close to the king crown type of splits except that they don't cross. When you compare it with your Black orchid, top 3 sets of split. you would notice that the 1st two set of split is webbed. This is what you will have to attempt to remove in your next generation, to improve on the quality of your CT. Likewise the bottom set of splits of the caudal also needs improvement. This is not an easy task. I do have some Red CT fries with very good splits but the webbing of the top and bottom of the caudal finnage were also fused and this is a sore point. Note the webbed Caudals on top and bottom caudal of the fry. These are undesirable.

Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif CTredcrt-fry.jpg (http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/phil ngo/2003425213155_CTredcrt-fry.jpg)
20.69?KB

[Brandon Chia]

with your pic i have a better understanding now.. But this trait seems abit like KC spltting. Am i rite?
quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

Yes but this betta still has its flaws. Concentrate your attention only on the top 4 sets of rays of the CT. Please don't take into consideration the DDR splits on some of the rays, but focus more on ray length and spread of the webbing. In my opinion it is this type of split spreads that are close to ideal spreads. Ideally this should be the type of spread I would want from top to bottom. The broadness of the split is also what I would seek. In fact you will noticed that the features are close to the king crown type of splits except that they don't cross. When you compare it with your Black orchid, top 3 sets of split. you would notice that the 1st two set of split is webbed. This is what you will have to attempt to remove in your next generation, to improve on the quality of your CT. Likewise the bottom set of splits of the caudal also needs improvement. This is not an easy task. I do have some Red CT fries with very good splits but the webbing of the top and bottom of the caudal finnage were also fused and this is a sore point. Note the webbed Caudals on top and bottom caudal of the fry. These are undesirable.

Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif CTredcrt-fry.jpg (http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/phil ngo/2003425213155_CTredcrt-fry.jpg)
20.69?KB

[Phil]

Yes, but it was one that never made it! But the KC split is the ideal, but every KC I have seen also have webbing problems especially top and bottom part of caudals. Just check out Henry's king crown pictures. But because they are very difficult to get, the KC usually wins even if there are some flaws. rarity is the key. The flaws are overlooked.

[Phil]

Yes, but it was one that never made it! But the KC split is the ideal, but every KC I have seen also have webbing problems especially top and bottom part of caudals. Just check out Henry's king crown pictures. But because they are very difficult to get, the KC usually wins even if there are some flaws. rarity is the key. The flaws are overlooked.

[Brandon Chia]

IMO, CTs are one of the best betta tail type, but the maintainace really puts some ppl off very easily..

Thanxs for all the advice Phil, Hope this thread will carry on in our quest to find the perfect betta .

MORE PICS PLSS!!!!!

:)

[Brandon Chia]

IMO, CTs are one of the best betta tail type, but the maintainace really puts some ppl off very easily..

Thanxs for all the advice Phil, Hope this thread will carry on in our quest to find the perfect betta .

MORE PICS PLSS!!!!!

:)

[Phil]

Glad to help anytime. Cheers

[Phil]

Glad to help anytime. Cheers

[Brandon Chia]

The Greatest CT of all time. The King

I personally like the second pic.. coz of the nice balloon webbing..

Male:
http://www.bubblenest.net/bubblenest/images/hy1.jpg
http://www.bubblenest.net/bubblenest/images/new_red.jpg

Couldn't find the Female KC pic. :(

[Brandon Chia]

The Greatest CT of all time. The King

I personally like the second pic.. coz of the nice balloon webbing..

Male:
http://www.bubblenest.net/bubblenest/images/hy1.jpg
http://www.bubblenest.net/bubblenest/images/new_red.jpg

Couldn't find the Female KC pic. :(

[Phil]

Actually I have a potential KC here with me from my own breeding. But it is still too young too confirm. Got to wait....and see. rays haven't cross yet!just touching. age 2 mths plus. A cross out from this joker

Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif CTRedcrt.jpg (http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/phil ngo/2003425225539_CTRedcrt.jpg)
28.29KB

[Phil]

Actually I have a potential KC here with me from my own breeding. But it is still too young too confirm. Got to wait....and see. rays haven't cross yet!just touching. age 2 mths plus. A cross out from this joker

Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif CTRedcrt.jpg (http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/phil ngo/2003425225539_CTRedcrt.jpg)
28.29KB

[widykiswanto]

Phil

How about the anal fin?? especially on your red ct fry sample, is it consider curling fin or it's still acceptable curling anal fin ??

widy

[widykiswanto]

Phil

How about the anal fin?? especially on your red ct fry sample, is it consider curling fin or it's still acceptable curling anal fin ??

widy

[Brandon Chia]

You call that 'still too young to tell' ??

IMO, That's is already 100% better than CT and 50% lose out to KC liaoz...

Great Fish Phil!!

:)
quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

Actually I have a potential KC here with me from my own breeding. But it is still too young too confirm. Got to wait....and see. rays haven't cross yet!just touching. age 2 mths plus. A cross out from this joker

Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif CTRedcrt.jpg (http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/phil ngo/2003425225539_CTRedcrt.jpg)
28.29?KB

[Brandon Chia]

You call that 'still too young to tell' ??

IMO, That's is already 100% better than CT and 50% lose out to KC liaoz...

Great Fish Phil!!

:)
quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

Actually I have a potential KC here with me from my own breeding. But it is still too young too confirm. Got to wait....and see. rays haven't cross yet!just touching. age 2 mths plus. A cross out from this joker

Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif CTRedcrt.jpg (http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/phil ngo/2003425225539_CTRedcrt.jpg)
28.29?KB

[ernest seow]

I think he meant this is the father of the young KC and not this is the potential one...tell me I am wrong.

[ernest seow]

I think he meant this is the father of the young KC and not this is the potential one...tell me I am wrong.

[Brandon Chia]

eh yah hor.. :)
cocked eye...

[Brandon Chia]

eh yah hor.. :)
cocked eye...

[Brandon Chia]

Phil,

Again got question. Regarding The ray splitting of DDR.There are many Different types of splitting style. What do you think is the more preferred type? Or is rather a personal thing?

Type 1: Deep inner web with deep outer web
http://www.interbetta.com/stock-pic/ct/Ct5-1.jpg

Looks like a much improved modified version of my betta..dun you agree?? haha

[Brandon Chia]

Phil,

Again got question. Regarding The ray splitting of DDR.There are many Different types of splitting style. What do you think is the more preferred type? Or is rather a personal thing?

Type 1: Deep inner web with deep outer web
http://www.interbetta.com/stock-pic/ct/Ct5-1.jpg

Looks like a much improved modified version of my betta..dun you agree?? haha

[Brandon Chia]

Type 2: Deep inner web with shallow outer web
http://www.interbetta.com/stock-pic/ct/Ct12-2.jpg

[Brandon Chia]

Type 2: Deep inner web with shallow outer web
http://www.interbetta.com/stock-pic/ct/Ct12-2.jpg

[kennho]

Brandon, to me, a crown tail means prominent protruding rays.

Using what I wanted from my spawn, I prefer 1st pic. But of course, we cannot discount the uniqueness or a rare fish. 2nd pic looks like a SD/HMxCT ... kekekekeke ... if the ddr rays are more lengthy, I will sure like this fish a lot.

[kennho]

Brandon, to me, a crown tail means prominent protruding rays.

Using what I wanted from my spawn, I prefer 1st pic. But of course, we cannot discount the uniqueness or a rare fish. 2nd pic looks like a SD/HMxCT ... kekekekeke ... if the ddr rays are more lengthy, I will sure like this fish a lot.

[Brandon Chia]

Ken,

I personally also prefer the first one. 2nd type looks too 'gentle' But does this mean that the style is a personal preference thing? Or is there a standard split?

[Brandon Chia]

Ken,

I personally also prefer the first one. 2nd type looks too 'gentle' But does this mean that the style is a personal preference thing? Or is there a standard split?

[Phil]

Proportion should be the key in my judgement. I had a blue DDR that won in a competition in Jkt. Nice DDR with nice spread but it was still not the ideal fish for me because the top and bottom gap splits left much to be desired. The fish is actually featured in the Indonesian Betta Atlas. But not good enough really!

Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif __tn_Blue DDR CT.jpg (http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/phil ngo/2003426101459___tn_Blue DDR CT.jpg)
2.73KB

[Phil]

Proportion should be the key in my judgement. I had a blue DDR that won in a competition in Jkt. Nice DDR with nice spread but it was still not the ideal fish for me because the top and bottom gap splits left much to be desired. The fish is actually featured in the Indonesian Betta Atlas. But not good enough really!

Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif __tn_Blue DDR CT.jpg (http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/phil ngo/2003426101459___tn_Blue DDR CT.jpg)
2.73KB

[Phil]

Guys if you can coach me how to load in pictures directly as you have been doing I would be able to provide the pictures. Pei Sei but old man not too IT literate.

[Phil]

Guys if you can coach me how to load in pictures directly as you have been doing I would be able to provide the pictures. Pei Sei but old man not too IT literate.

[Phil]

yes ernest, you are correct partially,that is the grand Akong but not the father the line only. That fish produced rubbish but out of rubbish comes a potential KC. Incidentally i never showed that fish. to me there is still too much bad points about it. To me the attach was my favourite. I bred him too but not much success in getting KC
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/phil%20ngo/2003426103947_CTMcrt1.jpg
quote:Originally posted by ernest seow

I think he meant this is the father of the young KC and not this is the potential one...tell me I am wrong.
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/phil%20ngo/2003426103947_CTMcrt1.jpghttp://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/phil%20ngo/2003426152229_CTmcrt2.jpg

Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif CTmcrt2.jpg (http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/phil ngo/2003426152229_CTmcrt2.jpg)
16.16?KB

[Phil]

yes ernest, you are correct partially,that is the grand Akong but not the father the line only. That fish produced rubbish but out of rubbish comes a potential KC. Incidentally i never showed that fish. to me there is still too much bad points about it. To me the attach was my favourite. I bred him too but not much success in getting KC
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/phil%20ngo/2003426103947_CTMcrt1.jpg
quote:Originally posted by ernest seow

I think he meant this is the father of the young KC and not this is the potential one...tell me I am wrong.
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/phil%20ngo/2003426103947_CTMcrt1.jpghttp://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/phil%20ngo/2003426152229_CTmcrt2.jpg

Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif CTmcrt2.jpg (http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/phil ngo/2003426152229_CTmcrt2.jpg)
16.16?KB

[Phil]

yes there is a slight curl but this type is still aceptable though not the best.

quote:Originally posted by widykiswanto

Phil

How about the anal fin?? especially on your red ct fry sample, is it consider curling fin or it's still acceptable curling anal fin ??

widy

[Phil]

yes there is a slight curl but this type is still aceptable though not the best.

quote:Originally posted by widykiswanto

Phil

How about the anal fin?? especially on your red ct fry sample, is it consider curling fin or it's still acceptable curling anal fin ??

widy

[Brandon Chia]

Phil,

you first gotta attach the file into your message. Then after you posted message you open the attached file.

A picture of your fish will appear. In the address column, it will show the file name of the picture(Eg.http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/phil%20ngo/2003426103947_CTMcrt1.jpg)

Edit your text and select the 'image' tab.

Copy the file name and paste it in between it

The pic will then appear liaoz..

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/phil%20ngo/2003426103947_CTMcrt1.jpg

I do this way dunno rite or not... Anyone got a faster way?? This fish i also feel not very nice. The finnage seems weak. Or is that the pic does not do the fish justice?
quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

Guys if you can coach me how to load in pictures directly as you have been doing I would be able to provide the pictures. Pei Sei but old man not too IT literate.

[Brandon Chia]

Phil,

you first gotta attach the file into your message. Then after you posted message you open the attached file.

A picture of your fish will appear. In the address column, it will show the file name of the picture(Eg.http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/phil%20ngo/2003426103947_CTMcrt1.jpg)

Edit your text and select the 'image' tab.

Copy the file name and paste it in between it

The pic will then appear liaoz..

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/phil%20ngo/2003426103947_CTMcrt1.jpg

I do this way dunno rite or not... Anyone got a faster way?? This fish i also feel not very nice. The finnage seems weak. Or is that the pic does not do the fish justice?
quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

Guys if you can coach me how to load in pictures directly as you have been doing I would be able to provide the pictures. Pei Sei but old man not too IT literate.

[Phil]

Actually this is the best KC that I had ever owned. Unfortunately I got my digital cam only after I had retired the betta and was into first round of breeding. But like all KC so far top and bottom splits are lacking. This appears to be the trend among all KCs so far. Thanks Brandon for enlightening me on the procedure.

[Phil]

Actually this is the best KC that I had ever owned. Unfortunately I got my digital cam only after I had retired the betta and was into first round of breeding. But like all KC so far top and bottom splits are lacking. This appears to be the trend among all KCs so far. Thanks Brandon for enlightening me on the procedure.

[Phil]

Sorry brandon, as you can see I have been trying but cannot find address column. Only managed to insert four red crosses.

quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

Actually this is the best KC that I had ever owned. Unfortunately I got my digital cam only after I had retired the betta and was into first round of breeding. But like all KC so far top and bottom splits are lacking. This appears to be the trend among all KCs so far. Thanks Brandon for enlightening me on the procedure.

[Phil]

Sorry brandon, as you can see I have been trying but cannot find address column. Only managed to insert four red crosses.

quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

Actually this is the best KC that I had ever owned. Unfortunately I got my digital cam only after I had retired the betta and was into first round of breeding. But like all KC so far top and bottom splits are lacking. This appears to be the trend among all KCs so far. Thanks Brandon for enlightening me on the procedure.

[Brandon Chia]

The picture that you had attched you got open? did a new window appear showing your pic?

Another way is that you right click on your pic displayed and select properties. You will see a file name for the pic. Then insert that file name into the image tab
quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

Sorry brandon, as you can see I have been trying but cannot find address column. Only managed to insert four red crosses.

quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

Actually this is the best KC that I had ever owned. Unfortunately I got my digital cam only after I had retired the betta and was into first round of breeding. But like all KC so far top and bottom splits are lacking. This appears to be the trend among all KCs so far. Thanks Brandon for enlightening me on the procedure.

[Brandon Chia]

The picture that you had attched you got open? did a new window appear showing your pic?

Another way is that you right click on your pic displayed and select properties. You will see a file name for the pic. Then insert that file name into the image tab
quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

Sorry brandon, as you can see I have been trying but cannot find address column. Only managed to insert four red crosses.

quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

Actually this is the best KC that I had ever owned. Unfortunately I got my digital cam only after I had retired the betta and was into first round of breeding. But like all KC so far top and bottom splits are lacking. This appears to be the trend among all KCs so far. Thanks Brandon for enlightening me on the procedure.

[Phil]

Thanks Brandon, got it already.

quote:Originally posted by Brandon Chia

The picture that you had attched you got open? did a new window appear showing your pic?

Another way is that you right click on your pic displayed and select properties. You will see a file name for the pic. Then insert that file name into the image tab
quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

Sorry brandon, as you can see I have been trying but cannot find address column. Only managed to insert four red crosses.

quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

Actually this is the best KC that I had ever owned. Unfortunately I got my digital cam only after I had retired the betta and was into first round of breeding. But like all KC so far top and bottom splits are lacking. This appears to be the trend among all KCs so far. Thanks Brandon for enlightening me on the procedure.

[Phil]

Thanks Brandon, got it already.

quote:Originally posted by Brandon Chia

The picture that you had attched you got open? did a new window appear showing your pic?

Another way is that you right click on your pic displayed and select properties. You will see a file name for the pic. Then insert that file name into the image tab
quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

Sorry brandon, as you can see I have been trying but cannot find address column. Only managed to insert four red crosses.

quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

Actually this is the best KC that I had ever owned. Unfortunately I got my digital cam only after I had retired the betta and was into first round of breeding. But like all KC so far top and bottom splits are lacking. This appears to be the trend among all KCs so far. Thanks Brandon for enlightening me on the procedure.

[Brandon Chia]

no prob. :)

[Brandon Chia]

no prob. :)

[imported_n/a]

Hello Phil,

Please see 2 brothers from my recent spawn..... any comments , appreciate it.

[imported_n/a]

Hello Phil,

Please see 2 brothers from my recent spawn..... any comments , appreciate it.

[imported_n/a]

Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif BettaA1.JPG (http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/cl yong/200342715128_BettaA1.JPG)
35.97KB

[imported_n/a]

Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif BettaA1.JPG (http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/cl yong/200342715128_BettaA1.JPG)
35.97KB

[imported_n/a]

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/cl%20yong/200342715128_BettaA1.JPG

[imported_n/a]

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/cl%20yong/200342715128_BettaA1.JPG

[imported_n/a]

The brother from same spawn.

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/cl%20yong/20034271587_BettaB1.JPG

[imported_n/a]

The brother from same spawn.

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/cl%20yong/20034271587_BettaB1.JPG

[Phil]

Yong those are very nice steel CT you have there. I like the top fish solid colour and nice finnage. Hence my preference is for the top fish as a competition fish. But you will have to be careful of the curling that is begining to show at the anal fin. Don't let it deteriorate. I would assume that the fish is between 3-4 months. A young adult.

[Phil]

Yong those are very nice steel CT you have there. I like the top fish solid colour and nice finnage. Hence my preference is for the top fish as a competition fish. But you will have to be careful of the curling that is begining to show at the anal fin. Don't let it deteriorate. I would assume that the fish is between 3-4 months. A young adult.

[kennho]

Agree with Phil, the 1st fish is a better specimen but the anal curl looks pretty bad. Mainly clean water. Even if it curled badly and unable to compete, it's a good male for next spawn.

[kennho]

Agree with Phil, the 1st fish is a better specimen but the anal curl looks pretty bad. Mainly clean water. Even if it curled badly and unable to compete, it's a good male for next spawn.

[Brandon Chia]

?? How to tell the age from the pic?

[Brandon Chia]

?? How to tell the age from the pic?

[imported_n/a]

Thanks a lot. ..
Thats the only 2 that i kept from a spawn of about a hundred.... anyway... very frustrating because no matter how hard i tried could not stop the rays from curling.... I do partial water changes every 3 days initially... when i first jar them....
but now only do full water changes every 5 days.... sian liao.,.... can't be bothered and intend to only use them to spawn and hopefully get as good finnage from their children.
Very very frustrating as most of them look really good when young but turn out to curl very badly and i have tried many many ways to reduce the curls... but still not very successful....
Anyway.... from what you guys have said ... i am encouraged to continue as even now considering to give up and do Plakats... hahahha
Thanks very much Phil and Kenn

[imported_n/a]

Thanks a lot. ..
Thats the only 2 that i kept from a spawn of about a hundred.... anyway... very frustrating because no matter how hard i tried could not stop the rays from curling.... I do partial water changes every 3 days initially... when i first jar them....
but now only do full water changes every 5 days.... sian liao.,.... can't be bothered and intend to only use them to spawn and hopefully get as good finnage from their children.
Very very frustrating as most of them look really good when young but turn out to curl very badly and i have tried many many ways to reduce the curls... but still not very successful....
Anyway.... from what you guys have said ... i am encouraged to continue as even now considering to give up and do Plakats... hahahha
Thanks very much Phil and Kenn

[Fahmi]

sian

[Fahmi]

sian

[Phil]

from the finnage disposition, brandon. age of fish can be approximated.

quote:Originally posted by Brandon Chia

?? How to tell the age from the pic?

[Phil]

from the finnage disposition, brandon. age of fish can be approximated.

quote:Originally posted by Brandon Chia

?? How to tell the age from the pic?

[kennho]

Crowntail is just as difficult as halfmoon. One can confirm that one whole spawn will be ct as long as the pair are ct. But to get a good one out of the spawn is a pain at the back. It's not surprising that many give up on ct. I almost gave up as well. But now, working on many colors to find a way out of the misery.

CL, why not tell us how big is your containers for yr ct ?
if possible water parameters.

[kennho]

Crowntail is just as difficult as halfmoon. One can confirm that one whole spawn will be ct as long as the pair are ct. But to get a good one out of the spawn is a pain at the back. It's not surprising that many give up on ct. I almost gave up as well. But now, working on many colors to find a way out of the misery.

CL, why not tell us how big is your containers for yr ct ?
if possible water parameters.

[Brandon Chia]

I also gave up on CT just last week until i took part this thread. I found out that my fav is still CT.

I even sold off my imbellis as i found out that it doesn't suit me at all. I also almost went into plakats.hahah

Gotta say thanx to the CT pros here..Lucky still got you ppl, Arboh onli i alone play CT veri sianz... :)

[Brandon Chia]

I also gave up on CT just last week until i took part this thread. I found out that my fav is still CT.

I even sold off my imbellis as i found out that it doesn't suit me at all. I also almost went into plakats.hahah

Gotta say thanx to the CT pros here..Lucky still got you ppl, Arboh onli i alone play CT veri sianz... :)

[Brandon Chia]

Seems like i still got some learning to do. :)
quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

from the finnage disposition, brandon. age of fish can be approximated.

quote:Originally posted by Brandon Chia

?? How to tell the age from the pic?

[Brandon Chia]

Seems like i still got some learning to do. :)
quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

from the finnage disposition, brandon. age of fish can be approximated.

quote:Originally posted by Brandon Chia

?? How to tell the age from the pic?

[imported_n/a]

Hello,

1) water aged over night, if i feel not enough i will add 'nutrafin water conditioner'. because too many tanks needs water changes so often cannot age the water long enough... no space for water storage.!!
I use two red buckets to age the water and whatever spare tanks that i have which are not being used.

2)nothing is added to the water, (use to add salt but now stop to see if there is any effect, now still not sure)

3)Ketapang Juice is added into the water before water change and A small piece of leaves are added into the tank.

4) the smallest tanks that i use are those sold at straits (glass glued together with silicon)

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/cl%20yong/200342723408_Fish%20Room%20Pictures.JPG

Please see racks on the wall....
Those are mainly New year cookies container where i initially jar them to select the good ones and transfer them into the Nisso,Guppy or glass tanks...I normally started jarring them when they are 2 mnths old as they are starting to fight and fins get nipped.

I think that 1 very serious mistake that i make is to leave them in the small container on the wall for too long.. .as the fish grow fast when you jar them the containers are just too small.... even with consistent water change which i use to do.... (partial water change ever 3 days and full water change every month). is not enough.

Now I am going to try to Jar them later ....
highlighted to me by Bro Ing Ming... when he came to my place ... was that

1)a lot of the thais breeder are not constrained by space... the grow out tanks they use are humongus compared to my 2ft tanks so therefore they are able to start jarring the fishes later

2) as long as the tanks has got a lot of plants they got spaces to hide and are able to establish their territory and the leaves block the view of others fishes even though they are very near to each other so less fighting occurs...

3) The thais jar them when they are ready to be sold... thus reducing the time the fish spends in the small containers so the curling effects has not yet set in... ???

anyway .... my very humble opinion....

See my grow out tanks below...

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/cl%20yong/2003427235452_Grow%20Out%20tank%201.JPG

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/cl%20yong/2003427235525_Grow%20out%20tank%202.JPG

Would really appreciate anything you guys can advise.... Thanks a bunch Bros....

[imported_n/a]

Hello,

1) water aged over night, if i feel not enough i will add 'nutrafin water conditioner'. because too many tanks needs water changes so often cannot age the water long enough... no space for water storage.!!
I use two red buckets to age the water and whatever spare tanks that i have which are not being used.

2)nothing is added to the water, (use to add salt but now stop to see if there is any effect, now still not sure)

3)Ketapang Juice is added into the water before water change and A small piece of leaves are added into the tank.

4) the smallest tanks that i use are those sold at straits (glass glued together with silicon)

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/cl%20yong/200342723408_Fish%20Room%20Pictures.JPG

Please see racks on the wall....
Those are mainly New year cookies container where i initially jar them to select the good ones and transfer them into the Nisso,Guppy or glass tanks...I normally started jarring them when they are 2 mnths old as they are starting to fight and fins get nipped.

I think that 1 very serious mistake that i make is to leave them in the small container on the wall for too long.. .as the fish grow fast when you jar them the containers are just too small.... even with consistent water change which i use to do.... (partial water change ever 3 days and full water change every month). is not enough.

Now I am going to try to Jar them later ....
highlighted to me by Bro Ing Ming... when he came to my place ... was that

1)a lot of the thais breeder are not constrained by space... the grow out tanks they use are humongus compared to my 2ft tanks so therefore they are able to start jarring the fishes later

2) as long as the tanks has got a lot of plants they got spaces to hide and are able to establish their territory and the leaves block the view of others fishes even though they are very near to each other so less fighting occurs...

3) The thais jar them when they are ready to be sold... thus reducing the time the fish spends in the small containers so the curling effects has not yet set in... ???

anyway .... my very humble opinion....

See my grow out tanks below...

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/cl%20yong/2003427235452_Grow%20Out%20tank%201.JPG

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/cl%20yong/2003427235525_Grow%20out%20tank%202.JPG

Would really appreciate anything you guys can advise.... Thanks a bunch Bros....

[imported_n/a]

Oh.... please see tailess ct ... funny guys can survive really well and he is the only one with complete straight rays even though it is thinning....

Anyway he really cute...!!!!

:D:D:D:D:D


http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/cl%20yong/2003427235935_Tailess%20betta.JPG

[imported_n/a]

Oh.... please see tailess ct ... funny guys can survive really well and he is the only one with complete straight rays even though it is thinning....

Anyway he really cute...!!!!

:D:D:D:D:D


http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/cl%20yong/2003427235935_Tailess%20betta.JPG

[kennho]

CL, can u take a close up shot on your wooden jar barrack ? not that ikea rack. That's something for me to work on !!! Interesting setup.

For me, I jarred my few batches too early and their growth slowed down. Now some of those 1 mth old in the comm tank outgrew those jarred. I am using a 250L comm tank with filter running in there.

Another thing is Phil is using soft low pH indonesia water, I am trying high ph local tap water water. Still collecting data on what types of water.

One of the interesting thing is not just keeping water clean, the fish health must be very good to maintain the finnage. Any sign of not flaring or fin closing will be time to bomb the bacteria.

Of course, last time is ray cutting which I still working on it.

[kennho]

CL, can u take a close up shot on your wooden jar barrack ? not that ikea rack. That's something for me to work on !!! Interesting setup.

For me, I jarred my few batches too early and their growth slowed down. Now some of those 1 mth old in the comm tank outgrew those jarred. I am using a 250L comm tank with filter running in there.

Another thing is Phil is using soft low pH indonesia water, I am trying high ph local tap water water. Still collecting data on what types of water.

One of the interesting thing is not just keeping water clean, the fish health must be very good to maintain the finnage. Any sign of not flaring or fin closing will be time to bomb the bacteria.

Of course, last time is ray cutting which I still working on it.

[Brandon Chia]

Very nice Setup CL Yong, I esp liked the wall setup, very unique!!

NICE~!~!~!~!~!~!

:)

[Brandon Chia]

Very nice Setup CL Yong, I esp liked the wall setup, very unique!!

NICE~!~!~!~!~!~!

:)

[Brandon Chia]

Ken,

Think gotta create a new thread on Ray cutting. Hope pors out there can provide advice and insights on the process
quote:Originally posted by kennho

CL, can u take a close up shot on your wooden jar barrack ? not that ikea rack. That's something for me to work on !!! Interesting setup.

For me, I jarred my few batches too early and their growth slowed down. Now some of those 1 mth old in the comm tank outgrew those jarred. I am using a 250L comm tank with filter running in there.

Another thing is Phil is using soft low pH indonesia water, I am trying high ph local tap water water. Still collecting data on what types of water.

One of the interesting thing is not just keeping water clean, the fish health must be very good to maintain the finnage. Any sign of not flaring or fin closing will be time to bomb the bacteria.

Of course, last time is ray cutting which I still working on it.

[Brandon Chia]

Ken,

Think gotta create a new thread on Ray cutting. Hope pors out there can provide advice and insights on the process
quote:Originally posted by kennho

CL, can u take a close up shot on your wooden jar barrack ? not that ikea rack. That's something for me to work on !!! Interesting setup.

For me, I jarred my few batches too early and their growth slowed down. Now some of those 1 mth old in the comm tank outgrew those jarred. I am using a 250L comm tank with filter running in there.

Another thing is Phil is using soft low pH indonesia water, I am trying high ph local tap water water. Still collecting data on what types of water.

One of the interesting thing is not just keeping water clean, the fish health must be very good to maintain the finnage. Any sign of not flaring or fin closing will be time to bomb the bacteria.

Of course, last time is ray cutting which I still working on it.

[Lim Aik Seng]

i think we shd have a topia on barrack
to dicusse

[Lim Aik Seng]

i think we shd have a topia on barrack
to dicusse

[Phil]

I use water current to try and staighten curls. It seems to work sometimes, especially when the curls are not too drastic. FH has coined it my treadmill. My top fishes are also kept in 12" by 8" tanks.

[Phil]

I use water current to try and staighten curls. It seems to work sometimes, especially when the curls are not too drastic. FH has coined it my treadmill. My top fishes are also kept in 12" by 8" tanks.

[imported_n/a]

(Thanks Brandon & Kenneth for the compliments....
I will start another thread to discuss the rack further....
as don't wanna go out of topic...need to go home take photos[8D][8D])

Ways of Reducing Curl:-

Water Current (Betta Treadmill):-
Have considered this set up before and wouldn't it be great if can incoporate it and have a Betta Barrack Cum betta Exercise mill.
But alas i am still staying with my parents and the pic that you guys are seeing is my bedroom... nothing goes out the door.... so therefore i am severely limited by space. Also no time.... gotta spent a lot of time on design and construction... how...?? with work and water change and feeding and spawning... aiya how to find time..

Imitating the Water Quality:-
Since the water of Indonesia are softer than what we have here. how about setting up a water storage and filter system where we run the water thru a medium to create the water conditions similar to those in indonesia.

Curl Cutting:-
Sorry not tried this method before... not sure how to do it.


Funny thing is that despite all the discussions there is still no conclusive reasons why the rays curl.....
I think that the Indo breeders would have no need to deal with this because cases of this happening is not widespread so therefore they are also not quite able to provide a reason... (Please correct me if i am wrong.)

Anyway... sigh... just have to carry on... I guess and try.

I am actually quite keen on the reconstructing water condition method but no idea what we need to do... (Me arts and business student, Science no good, Still have problem figuring out ph levels) as i feel that is the easiest.

So anyone any idea.

Phil - Waaahhhh your tanks so big....no space...
in your opinion is the nisso tanks that we use adequate???

[imported_n/a]

(Thanks Brandon & Kenneth for the compliments....
I will start another thread to discuss the rack further....
as don't wanna go out of topic...need to go home take photos[8D][8D])

Ways of Reducing Curl:-

Water Current (Betta Treadmill):-
Have considered this set up before and wouldn't it be great if can incoporate it and have a Betta Barrack Cum betta Exercise mill.
But alas i am still staying with my parents and the pic that you guys are seeing is my bedroom... nothing goes out the door.... so therefore i am severely limited by space. Also no time.... gotta spent a lot of time on design and construction... how...?? with work and water change and feeding and spawning... aiya how to find time..

Imitating the Water Quality:-
Since the water of Indonesia are softer than what we have here. how about setting up a water storage and filter system where we run the water thru a medium to create the water conditions similar to those in indonesia.

Curl Cutting:-
Sorry not tried this method before... not sure how to do it.


Funny thing is that despite all the discussions there is still no conclusive reasons why the rays curl.....
I think that the Indo breeders would have no need to deal with this because cases of this happening is not widespread so therefore they are also not quite able to provide a reason... (Please correct me if i am wrong.)

Anyway... sigh... just have to carry on... I guess and try.

I am actually quite keen on the reconstructing water condition method but no idea what we need to do... (Me arts and business student, Science no good, Still have problem figuring out ph levels) as i feel that is the easiest.

So anyone any idea.

Phil - Waaahhhh your tanks so big....no space...
in your opinion is the nisso tanks that we use adequate???

[imported_n/a]

Hello Phil,

I think a lots of people been asking this question.... sorry to repeat this but from your experience what in you opinion is a good size tank to house your Crowntail?
Of course the bigger the tank is the better but we can only afford to have certain size tanks.
Is the nisso tanks that we use adequate.?? or is the glass jars used by straits good enough??

Thanks for your help.

Rgds
CL.

[imported_n/a]

Hello Phil,

I think a lots of people been asking this question.... sorry to repeat this but from your experience what in you opinion is a good size tank to house your Crowntail?
Of course the bigger the tank is the better but we can only afford to have certain size tanks.
Is the nisso tanks that we use adequate.?? or is the glass jars used by straits good enough??

Thanks for your help.

Rgds
CL.

[kennho]

CL, I am using a 10-12L tank for selected ct as well.

As for the curling, there are several things I have in mind, but no proof to validate.
1. Genetic
Possibly one of the most difficult. In fact, I noticed that thin rays are the easiest to bend or worst crumbled up. Those with thicker rays are not so much affected. But rays around the anal are the worst hit most of the time. We might need to breed only the thick rays pair or find ways to improve or strengthen the rays.

2. water quality
Not conclusive, can always maintain the same as other betta, soft water. However, always maintain the cleanest water and no present of chlorine.

3. dieases
Rays are one of the sensitive part of the fish. Bacterial dieases will weaken the fish. I do noticed that if fish start to rest at the bottom, the anal rays will tends to bend. A healthy fish should not rest at the bottom. So I guess one important thing to do is to minimize bacteria infection.

4. Space
So far, a larger space for ct seems to work. Not just it reduced the risk of having toxic accumulation, also provide space for the fish to swim and develop the finnage.

5. Water flow
Phil mentioned it, as well as my own diy barrack that seems to work. The important of having flow thru a filtration provide a few advantages. To provide biological filtration to the toxic, flow to the water to provide some form of "resistance" for fish to stay at bottom, of course to strengthen the fish.

There are more ... later than write.

[kennho]

CL, I am using a 10-12L tank for selected ct as well.

As for the curling, there are several things I have in mind, but no proof to validate.
1. Genetic
Possibly one of the most difficult. In fact, I noticed that thin rays are the easiest to bend or worst crumbled up. Those with thicker rays are not so much affected. But rays around the anal are the worst hit most of the time. We might need to breed only the thick rays pair or find ways to improve or strengthen the rays.

2. water quality
Not conclusive, can always maintain the same as other betta, soft water. However, always maintain the cleanest water and no present of chlorine.

3. dieases
Rays are one of the sensitive part of the fish. Bacterial dieases will weaken the fish. I do noticed that if fish start to rest at the bottom, the anal rays will tends to bend. A healthy fish should not rest at the bottom. So I guess one important thing to do is to minimize bacteria infection.

4. Space
So far, a larger space for ct seems to work. Not just it reduced the risk of having toxic accumulation, also provide space for the fish to swim and develop the finnage.

5. Water flow
Phil mentioned it, as well as my own diy barrack that seems to work. The important of having flow thru a filtration provide a few advantages. To provide biological filtration to the toxic, flow to the water to provide some form of "resistance" for fish to stay at bottom, of course to strengthen the fish.

There are more ... later than write.

[imported_n/a]

Hello Everyone, apologise for the 'bo liao' posting earlier. Got carried away and posted stuff which was not very important and a repetition of questions previously asked in other threads.
Will refrain from doing that from now on.
[bt][bt][bt][sr][sr]


Hello Kenn,

We are always restricted by time and space. So therefore a lot of the stuff which we want cannot be done. So I guess unless we are full time breeders this is going to be really difficult.
Myself considering the number of fishes that need to be Jarred .... going to be very very difficult and impossible...
Quite frustrating isn't it.... haha sometimes tempted to drop every everything and go apprentice in a fish farm.

rgds
Yong

[imported_n/a]

Hello Everyone, apologise for the 'bo liao' posting earlier. Got carried away and posted stuff which was not very important and a repetition of questions previously asked in other threads.
Will refrain from doing that from now on.
[bt][bt][bt][sr][sr]


Hello Kenn,

We are always restricted by time and space. So therefore a lot of the stuff which we want cannot be done. So I guess unless we are full time breeders this is going to be really difficult.
Myself considering the number of fishes that need to be Jarred .... going to be very very difficult and impossible...
Quite frustrating isn't it.... haha sometimes tempted to drop every everything and go apprentice in a fish farm.

rgds
Yong

[Fahmi]

hai any solution for a small room like mine.. now only can put my ct near window wonder ct w/o sun light the ray will curl???

[Fahmi]

hai any solution for a small room like mine.. now only can put my ct near window wonder ct w/o sun light the ray will curl???

[imported_n/a]

Sorry Fahmi,

have not tried the Sunlight method so cannot advise. ....

[imported_n/a]

Sorry Fahmi,

have not tried the Sunlight method so cannot advise. ....

[Brandon Chia]

Dun think those size are suitable, Because they are selling them, they can afford to put them in slightly smaller tanks. If you notice, some of their fishes have very bad fin curls and some are already starting to show liaoz.. even when they are still young

quote:Originally posted by CL Yong

Hello Phil,

I think a lots of people been asking this question.... sorry to repeat this but from your experience what in you opinion is a good size tank to house your Crowntail?
Of course the bigger the tank is the better but we can only afford to have certain size tanks.
Is the nisso tanks that we use adequate.?? or is the glass jars used by straits good enough??

Thanks for your help.

Rgds
CL.

[Brandon Chia]

Dun think those size are suitable, Because they are selling them, they can afford to put them in slightly smaller tanks. If you notice, some of their fishes have very bad fin curls and some are already starting to show liaoz.. even when they are still young

quote:Originally posted by CL Yong

Hello Phil,

I think a lots of people been asking this question.... sorry to repeat this but from your experience what in you opinion is a good size tank to house your Crowntail?
Of course the bigger the tank is the better but we can only afford to have certain size tanks.
Is the nisso tanks that we use adequate.?? or is the glass jars used by straits good enough??

Thanks for your help.

Rgds
CL.

[imported_n/a]

Ya Brandon

Know what you mean..... but then how to afford all Nisso Tanks and How to find the Space ... walau... sigh... very headache...hahah

[imported_n/a]

Ya Brandon

Know what you mean..... but then how to afford all Nisso Tanks and How to find the Space ... walau... sigh... very headache...hahah

[Brandon Chia]

Unless you really hardcore CT. Otherwise i think those PET container should be good enuff. Sommore one for $1 onli.got one type has a much height height. that one i think $1.10/$1.20 like tat

But my better ones are kept in Nisso tanks.
quote:Originally posted by CL Yong

Ya Brandon

Know what you mean..... but then how to afford all Nisso Tanks and How to find the Space ... walau... sigh... very headache...hahah

[Brandon Chia]

Unless you really hardcore CT. Otherwise i think those PET container should be good enuff. Sommore one for $1 onli.got one type has a much height height. that one i think $1.10/$1.20 like tat

But my better ones are kept in Nisso tanks.
quote:Originally posted by CL Yong

Ya Brandon

Know what you mean..... but then how to afford all Nisso Tanks and How to find the Space ... walau... sigh... very headache...hahah

[Fahmi]

i using 2.50 guppy tank hhaha dunno can arnot plan 2 put filter in hai.....

[Fahmi]

i using 2.50 guppy tank hhaha dunno can arnot plan 2 put filter in hai.....

[Phil]

Fahmi, you can do with a heater in place of sunlight. But you can't put heater into bottles unless your bottles are perforated and placed in a bigger tank.

quote:Originally posted by Fahmi

hai any solution for a small room like mine.. now only can put my ct near window wonder ct w/o sun light the ray will curl???

[Phil]

Fahmi, you can do with a heater in place of sunlight. But you can't put heater into bottles unless your bottles are perforated and placed in a bigger tank.

quote:Originally posted by Fahmi

hai any solution for a small room like mine.. now only can put my ct near window wonder ct w/o sun light the ray will curl???

[Fahmi]

yeap tat the sad thing....

[Fahmi]

yeap tat the sad thing....

[Phil]

I like th 12 X 8 because it has ample space for the betta to swim lengthwise. The square tanks are a bit restrictive. You may want to consider a cycling programme to overcome your problems. ie: get 1 or 2 tanks and allow each of your prize bettas a 3 days stint each in the bungalow on rotation. The smallest tank currently used is a 4 X 6. But I would not keep any betta for long. Alternatively set up a water current flow so that your betta can do its regular treadmill within its confined space.

quote:Originally posted by CL Yong

Hello Phil,

I think a lots of people been asking this question.... sorry to repeat this but from your experience what in you opinion is a good size tank to house your Crowntail?
Of course the bigger the tank is the better but we can only afford to have certain size tanks.
Is the nisso tanks that we use adequate.?? or is the glass jars used by straits good enough??

Thanks for your help.

Rgds
CL.

[Phil]

I like th 12 X 8 because it has ample space for the betta to swim lengthwise. The square tanks are a bit restrictive. You may want to consider a cycling programme to overcome your problems. ie: get 1 or 2 tanks and allow each of your prize bettas a 3 days stint each in the bungalow on rotation. The smallest tank currently used is a 4 X 6. But I would not keep any betta for long. Alternatively set up a water current flow so that your betta can do its regular treadmill within its confined space.

quote:Originally posted by CL Yong

Hello Phil,

I think a lots of people been asking this question.... sorry to repeat this but from your experience what in you opinion is a good size tank to house your Crowntail?
Of course the bigger the tank is the better but we can only afford to have certain size tanks.
Is the nisso tanks that we use adequate.?? or is the glass jars used by straits good enough??

Thanks for your help.

Rgds
CL.

[Fahmi]

err wat u mean by treadmill???

[Fahmi]

err wat u mean by treadmill???

[Brandon Chia]

That's his special CT training machine!!! hahaha

[Brandon Chia]

That's his special CT training machine!!! hahaha

[Phil]

Betta treadmill is a term coined by my greatest critic FH for my water flow system.
quote:Originally posted by Fahmi

err wat u mean by treadmill???

[Phil]

Betta treadmill is a term coined by my greatest critic FH for my water flow system.
quote:Originally posted by Fahmi

err wat u mean by treadmill???

[Fahmi]

oic i go make 1 myself liao haha

[Fahmi]

oic i go make 1 myself liao haha

[Wong Wei Yong]

Will water depth affect the CT anal fins ? Heard before that if the water is too deep will cause anal fins to curl. How true is that ?

[Phil]

Not true. I have kept CTs in dragon Urns before. No curls detected.

[Lim Aik Seng]

quote:Originally posted by Wong Wei Yong

Will water depth affect the CT anal fins ? Heard before that if the water is too deep will cause anal fins to curl. How true is that ?

i don't think is true
but i don't think the ct will like it
cause too stress to swim up and down

[shaylynntan]

hmm.......mi red CT has quite long fins....like threads sticking out of the tail.....but the body is not red.....jux a bit dark in colour......the eyes are like....errr....a bit red.....i just recently bought it...so that i could spawn it maybe this coming nov.

[Wong Wei Yong]

This is how I keep my cts. Normally I would keep up to six cts per two feet tank. I am trying my hand on biological filtration for the cts, so far it is working well. Have managed to save a few cts from thinning rays.
I run the water through overhead filter. The first layer is cotton wool then follow by the biological filter media. After using this system, I change water once every two weeks and the finnage of the bettas are still okay.

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/photoalbum/Wong%20Wei%20Yong/cttank.jpg

Filter media:
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/photoalbum/Wong%20Wei%20Yong/biohome.jpg

Of course, the downside to this, is that the biological filtration takes time to cycle and it takes up a lot of space.

[Wong Wei Yong]

This is how I keep my cts. Normally I would keep up to six cts per two feet tank. I am trying my hand on biological filtration for the cts, so far it is working well. Have managed to save a few cts from thinning rays.
I run the water through overhead filter. The first layer is cotton wool then follow by the biological filter media. After using this system, I change water once every two weeks and the finnage of the bettas are still okay.

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/photoalbum/Wong%20Wei%20Yong/cttank.jpg

Filter media:
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/photoalbum/Wong%20Wei%20Yong/biohome.jpg

Of course, the downside to this, is that the biological filtration takes time to cycle and it takes up a lot of space.

[Malcom Tan]

Word of caution if you buy a need pump like the above, they will emits oil when you 1st use them. This oil is very harmful to bettas. Wash it clean with soap.
Alternative use a sponge filter

[Malcom Tan]

Word of caution if you buy a need pump like the above, they will emits oil when you 1st use them. This oil is very harmful to bettas. Wash it clean with soap.
Alternative use a sponge filter