Breeding Red Halfmoons

[Foo Hong]

Since Myron is paiting his house RED, he should start talking about his obsession with Reds.....

[Myron Tay]

But my house is biege. Nevermind.
Don't really feel qualified to speak on this subject as I have only been at this for two years and only successful beginning of last year. In any case, my lines have not produced true extended red HMs. But perhaps I would share with those who care to read about it my experience to date with extended reds and journey with my lines as they (hopefully) approach an extended red HM line.[:P]

Red bettas have fascinated me since seeing some of them in Marshall Ostrow's book "Bettas". Remember wishing to keep and breed them, but always held back because of the lack of access to quality bettas in Singapore as well as the fear of changing the water for 100 jars! [xx(]
But took the plunge two years ago with red bettas from Alvin Ho. Gave up my comic collecting hobby and swopped it for betta breeding.
Then got some bettas from Straits, Foo Hong, Peter Choo, Ing Thye and finally, latest from Sarawut.

End of Episode One.

[Myron Tay]

But my house is biege. Nevermind.
Don't really feel qualified to speak on this subject as I have only been at this for two years and only successful beginning of last year. In any case, my lines have not produced true extended red HMs. But perhaps I would share with those who care to read about it my experience to date with extended reds and journey with my lines as they (hopefully) approach an extended red HM line.[:P]

Red bettas have fascinated me since seeing some of them in Marshall Ostrow's book "Bettas". Remember wishing to keep and breed them, but always held back because of the lack of access to quality bettas in Singapore as well as the fear of changing the water for 100 jars! [xx(]
But took the plunge two years ago with red bettas from Alvin Ho. Gave up my comic collecting hobby and swopped it for betta breeding.
Then got some bettas from Straits, Foo Hong, Peter Choo, Ing Thye and finally, latest from Sarawut.

End of Episode One.

[Myron Tay]

F1: So I spawn fishes, not much to choose from the first time (since I usually did not keep more than three fishes at a time then. Finally, managed to get the right combination with from the SD from Straits and a delta female from Ing Thye (from Leng Lim's lines). It was a small spawn of 11 fries!

F2: Then I crossed the best female with a straight edge caudal delta from Foo Hong's Aquarama-winning line (that produced my out-curling caudal fishes). This was a bigger spawn of about 40+ fries. There was also another 40+ spawn of Straits fish again with Leng Lim's line, which was bred for colour.

F3: Turning my attention to form, I cross Sarawut's line with my Straits + Leng Lim + Foo Hong line. This time there are huge spawns of 100+ each, which are 1 - 1.5 months old now, but still quite small as this was a huge spawn and I have only started jarring some of them about a week back. Really excited about how they would turn out and will keep all posted about their development. Should be able to bring some for the group's comments in March.

End of Episode Two.

[Myron Tay]

F1: So I spawn fishes, not much to choose from the first time (since I usually did not keep more than three fishes at a time then. Finally, managed to get the right combination with from the SD from Straits and a delta female from Ing Thye (from Leng Lim's lines). It was a small spawn of 11 fries!

F2: Then I crossed the best female with a straight edge caudal delta from Foo Hong's Aquarama-winning line (that produced my out-curling caudal fishes). This was a bigger spawn of about 40+ fries. There was also another 40+ spawn of Straits fish again with Leng Lim's line, which was bred for colour.

F3: Turning my attention to form, I cross Sarawut's line with my Straits + Leng Lim + Foo Hong line. This time there are huge spawns of 100+ each, which are 1 - 1.5 months old now, but still quite small as this was a huge spawn and I have only started jarring some of them about a week back. Really excited about how they would turn out and will keep all posted about their development. Should be able to bring some for the group's comments in March.

End of Episode Two.

[Myron Tay]

Whatever I know about bettas I have learnt through reading the books, IBC standards and first-hand experience. But there is really no replacing the advice from the pros. I would like to thank Peter Choo, Foo Hong, Edwin Lim, Alvin Ho, Dr Hsu and many others for their sharing their invaluable lessons with me. So whatever I put here is a result mainly of them (so if there are any mistakes, you can blame them :D.)

I did not have the luxury of choice last year as I embarked on my breeding programme. But right now what I look for is the best fish based on the following rule of thumb:
(1) Big nice symmetrical caudal - minimally tertiary rays on both the male and female;
(2) Nice colour overall with minimal black scales and irrid - special note that the body and fins should be of the same colour (we are talking about extended red here which is a solid colour);
(3) Nice proportion overall - special note about the anal fin as most tend to be too long;
(4) The siblings of the fish - not a problem if it is your own spawn.

I also want to say this - it is critical that we provide the ideal environment for our bettas, especially our prized breeder ones. There should be no effort spared in providing the best care, even for the females. My experience with the reds has taught me to if one is nice to the breeder females, one would have no problem spawning them. This means providing quality water and food.

If one finds that one has more than one can handle, evaluate what you are doing and plan to do and cut back on certain lines if you have to. It is important to plan for the future and if you do not see yourself doing this for the long haul, you are probably doing too much and should cut back. Concentrate and specialise in one or two types, otherwise you would be burnt-out eventually (or your wife would demand you stop). In the long haul, the hobby would be poorer without you.

I hope that the care I put in my bettas would show in the fish that I sell. I am a very reluctant to release them (either for sale or into the public ponds) but I have to do what I have to do in order for there to be sanity in me and in my household.

But I digress....I have just updated those who are bothered to read my posts on where I stand in my current betta breeding programme. God has given me out-curling HM-like bettas in my spawns, though I stil hope he would give me true HMs. But I am still praying and (hopefully) improving my techniques as I go along...(to be continued?)

[Myron Tay]

Whatever I know about bettas I have learnt through reading the books, IBC standards and first-hand experience. But there is really no replacing the advice from the pros. I would like to thank Peter Choo, Foo Hong, Edwin Lim, Alvin Ho, Dr Hsu and many others for their sharing their invaluable lessons with me. So whatever I put here is a result mainly of them (so if there are any mistakes, you can blame them :D.)

I did not have the luxury of choice last year as I embarked on my breeding programme. But right now what I look for is the best fish based on the following rule of thumb:
(1) Big nice symmetrical caudal - minimally tertiary rays on both the male and female;
(2) Nice colour overall with minimal black scales and irrid - special note that the body and fins should be of the same colour (we are talking about extended red here which is a solid colour);
(3) Nice proportion overall - special note about the anal fin as most tend to be too long;
(4) The siblings of the fish - not a problem if it is your own spawn.

I also want to say this - it is critical that we provide the ideal environment for our bettas, especially our prized breeder ones. There should be no effort spared in providing the best care, even for the females. My experience with the reds has taught me to if one is nice to the breeder females, one would have no problem spawning them. This means providing quality water and food.

If one finds that one has more than one can handle, evaluate what you are doing and plan to do and cut back on certain lines if you have to. It is important to plan for the future and if you do not see yourself doing this for the long haul, you are probably doing too much and should cut back. Concentrate and specialise in one or two types, otherwise you would be burnt-out eventually (or your wife would demand you stop). In the long haul, the hobby would be poorer without you.

I hope that the care I put in my bettas would show in the fish that I sell. I am a very reluctant to release them (either for sale or into the public ponds) but I have to do what I have to do in order for there to be sanity in me and in my household.

But I digress....I have just updated those who are bothered to read my posts on where I stand in my current betta breeding programme. God has given me out-curling HM-like bettas in my spawns, though I stil hope he would give me true HMs. But I am still praying and (hopefully) improving my techniques as I go along...(to be continued?)

[Sebas]

Hi Myron,

You certainly have very impressive lines of reds. From the time you took photos of your outcurling reds, you have left a very deep impression that you take care and love your bettas alot. Hope to learn from you everytime i get to......God bless

[Sebas]

Hi Myron,

You certainly have very impressive lines of reds. From the time you took photos of your outcurling reds, you have left a very deep impression that you take care and love your bettas alot. Hope to learn from you everytime i get to......God bless

[Foo Hong]

Reds are so nice is it? Quick quick episode 3....otherwise episode 2.5 will do as well.

buay ta han liao!

[Foo Hong]

Reds are so nice is it? Quick quick episode 3....otherwise episode 2.5 will do as well.

buay ta han liao!

[Samuel Phan]

Nice effort from Myron to do this write-up on his experience on the Ext Reds.
You have acheived alot within a short time. Congrats.

[Samuel Phan]

Nice effort from Myron to do this write-up on his experience on the Ext Reds.
You have acheived alot within a short time. Congrats.

[Dr Hsu]

I think I see a newsletter article.......

[Dr Hsu]

I think I see a newsletter article.......

[Myron Tay]

Thank you, Sebas for your affirmation that it shows. However, I am really not qualified to teach as there are others much, much more qualified than me. They have knowledge, while what I have to offer is the way that involves a lot of hard work. The 100+ spawn is a joy :) as well as a headache [xx(] !

However, I am willing to share my opinions with anyone willing to listen. :D

quote:Originally posted by Sebas

Hi Myron,

You certainly have very impressive lines of reds. From the time you took photos of your outcurling reds, you have left a very deep impression that you take care and love your bettas alot. Hope to learn from you everytime i get to......God bless

[Myron Tay]

Thank you, Sebas for your affirmation that it shows. However, I am really not qualified to teach as there are others much, much more qualified than me. They have knowledge, while what I have to offer is the way that involves a lot of hard work. The 100+ spawn is a joy :) as well as a headache [xx(] !

However, I am willing to share my opinions with anyone willing to listen. :D

quote:Originally posted by Sebas

Hi Myron,

You certainly have very impressive lines of reds. From the time you took photos of your outcurling reds, you have left a very deep impression that you take care and love your bettas alot. Hope to learn from you everytime i get to......God bless

[Myron Tay]

Akan Datang. Need some time to take the pictures from my latest spawn. :)

quote:Originally posted by Foo Hong

Reds are so nice is it? Quick quick episode 3....otherwise episode 2.5 will do as well.

buay ta han liao!

[Myron Tay]

Akan Datang. Need some time to take the pictures from my latest spawn. :)

quote:Originally posted by Foo Hong

Reds are so nice is it? Quick quick episode 3....otherwise episode 2.5 will do as well.

buay ta han liao!

[Myron Tay]

Thank you for your very kind words, Sam. Just sharing my experience is all.

Although I do take care with my bettas, the bettas I have are largely a result of God's grace and good people who had taken the time to share their invaluable experience with me. I look forward to learning more from you as there is so much more I do not know.

quote:Originally posted by Samuel Phan

Nice effort from Myron to do this write-up on his experience on the Ext Reds.
You have acheived alot within a short time. Congrats.

[Myron Tay]

Thank you for your very kind words, Sam. Just sharing my experience is all.

Although I do take care with my bettas, the bettas I have are largely a result of God's grace and good people who had taken the time to share their invaluable experience with me. I look forward to learning more from you as there is so much more I do not know.

quote:Originally posted by Samuel Phan

Nice effort from Myron to do this write-up on his experience on the Ext Reds.
You have acheived alot within a short time. Congrats.

[Myron Tay]

Dr Hsu,

I would honoured to do a proper newsletter article if you determine that people would be interested in reading about my very short experience (without having to pay them to do so). [:o)]

quote:Originally posted by Dr Hsu

I think I see a newsletter article.......

[Myron Tay]

Dr Hsu,

I would honoured to do a proper newsletter article if you determine that people would be interested in reading about my very short experience (without having to pay them to do so). [:o)]

quote:Originally posted by Dr Hsu

I think I see a newsletter article.......

[Samuel Phan]

There is not much to learn from me lah ... I am not a theory person and I dun do much experiemnt.

Once I get a good method ... I stick to it. That is it ... no improvemnet from then onwards until one day I am hit by some major hiccup then I will re-look into the method.

I supposed for me ... fish keeping is easy due to the fact that I dun really have space constrains to limit the num of spawns I do.

Of cos ... a lot of credits will have to go to pple that helped me along the way by providing expert advises and quality breedinging stocks.


quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

Thank you for your very kind words, Sam. Just sharing my experience is all.

Although I do take care with my bettas, the bettas I have are largely a result of God's grace and good people who had taken the time to share their invaluable experience with me. I look forward to learning more from you as there is so much more I do not know.

quote:Originally posted by Samuel Phan

Nice effort from Myron to do this write-up on his experience on the Ext Reds.
You have acheived alot within a short time. Congrats.

[Samuel Phan]

There is not much to learn from me lah ... I am not a theory person and I dun do much experiemnt.

Once I get a good method ... I stick to it. That is it ... no improvemnet from then onwards until one day I am hit by some major hiccup then I will re-look into the method.

I supposed for me ... fish keeping is easy due to the fact that I dun really have space constrains to limit the num of spawns I do.

Of cos ... a lot of credits will have to go to pple that helped me along the way by providing expert advises and quality breedinging stocks.


quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

Thank you for your very kind words, Sam. Just sharing my experience is all.

Although I do take care with my bettas, the bettas I have are largely a result of God's grace and good people who had taken the time to share their invaluable experience with me. I look forward to learning more from you as there is so much more I do not know.

quote:Originally posted by Samuel Phan

Nice effort from Myron to do this write-up on his experience on the Ext Reds.
You have acheived alot within a short time. Congrats.

[Dr Hsu]

Myron,

Your results speak for themselves. No need to be a professor to write something. Just sharing how you did what you did is the main aim of newsletter articles - it spreads the experience around. No theoretical knowledge needed - real life practical experiences needed! That's what our club is about!

[Dr Hsu]

Myron,

Your results speak for themselves. No need to be a professor to write something. Just sharing how you did what you did is the main aim of newsletter articles - it spreads the experience around. No theoretical knowledge needed - real life practical experiences needed! That's what our club is about!

[Foo Hong]

Yep if u choose to remain 'anonymous' then we can replace Myron with 'the author, the breeder, the person, etc'.....

ps. but we will put a footnote and say that author = myron....

kekekekekekekeke

[Foo Hong]

Yep if u choose to remain 'anonymous' then we can replace Myron with 'the author, the breeder, the person, etc'.....

ps. but we will put a footnote and say that author = myron....

kekekekekekekeke

[Toh Chen Han]

Anyone with new pics of ext reds?

[Foo Hong]

next month [eb]

[Myron Tay]

Hopefully will be able to take some pics soon. Have a few SDs but no HMs. :(

quote:Originally posted by tohchenhan

Anyone with new pics of ext reds?

[ben fox wong]

Sharing his fish or pictures of his fish?:D

quote:Originally posted by tohchenhan

Myron,

Is the avatar fish from your Straits + Leng Lim + Foo Hong line which you have recently crossed to Sarawut's? It's very nice indeed. I hope you bring some of the fish in your collection to the next BCS gathering! =) I take it you have some spawns which will be ready soon? Take more pics ok? =)

Thanks for sharing.

[Toh Chen Han]

Hmmm...how come this thread dead liow. Myron, any preview pics for the 'next generation'?

[Toh Chen Han]

Are the fish able to recover completely from minor nibbles?

[Myron Tay]

Depends on how minor and where it is located.

[ben fox wong]

must give it to Myron, got the discipline just to concentrate on only one color for > 2 yrs.[col]

[Foo Hong]

yeah I dont have that kinda discipline [eb]

[Myron Tay]

One from my latest spawn:
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/photoalbum/Myron%20Tay/Red%20HM%206%20080303.jpg

[Sebas]

[dr]WOW!
myron, your photos are driving me crazy.[dt]

[Myron Tay]

:D:D:D

[Foo Hong]

How big how big is this one...quick quick.......

[derrick kuah]

myron , noticed the transparent edge on caudal, will the red colour darker(on the transparent edge) when it get older. my also like that. thanks and regards Derrick++

[Myron Tay]

Born on Christmas day like the rest of the spawn. About 5-6cm. :D

quote:Originally posted by Foo Hong

How big how big is this one...quick quick.......

[Myron Tay]

Derrick

In my experience, some grow out of it and some don't. It is a common trait amongst reds and believe that it has something to do with the red pigmentation does not spread as fast as the growth of the fins, hence what you see is the black undercoating (?). The Thais call this "thin fin" I believe and they are not entirely wrong it seems! Just have to be patient. Even if they do not grow out of it, I personally do not think that it takes too much away from the beauty of the fish. :D

quote:Originally posted by derrick kuah

myron , noticed the transparent edge on caudal, will the red colour darker(on the transparent edge) when it get older. my also like that. thanks and regards Derrick++

[derrick kuah]

myron,
thanks , it is a major problem. will the trait stay with the line. In competition, how bad(piont takenoff) it will be, from other.Understand Strait red also has this .....

[Toh Chen Han]

Hi Derrick....have a feeling the 'butterflying' trait will tend to stay with the line. Hear many anecdotes of ppl producing this kind of reds when they use lines which are known to have this problem. Also u can observe that the Straits reds (beautiful as they are) had consistently displayed that trait (although their most recent competition reds seem to be quite different).

Myron, if the clear band is razor thin, I don't think it detracts from the beauty of the fish...in fact it can add an appealing 'fuzzy edge' quality. =)

[Myron Tay]

It is a minor fault, but I was there when they judged the last NBC and it was this trait that made the difference then.

quote:Originally posted by derrick kuah

myron,
thanks , it is a major problem. will the trait stay with the line. In competition, how bad(piont takenoff) it will be, from other.Understand Strait red also has this .....

[derrick kuah]

thanks myron.
anyone care to share your experiences in getting rid of those"transparent" trait. are they the same as those transparent patches on light colour fishes(pastel and opqaue).maybe "big brother"foohong can help. i noticed his white doesn,t carried transparent patches on caudal or ..he he.. he culled off those from our view..+

[Foo Hong]

Hoi...dont anyhow say arh.....

but I feel the red's type of transparency is different from the whites which I had where the clear area is a patch[like marbling] and may not be at the edge of the fin.

Based on my experience with the stupid whites, the most logical bet to get rid of this problem in red is....not to use such fish for breeding. but if you have to, then never use a female with the same problem, cos otherwise it amounts to 'fixing' this trait in yr line. It is a painful process when it comes to culling and breeding selection. Dont u notice that I had more white hair working whites? Think Myron's hair will turn red too after a while :D

[derrick kuah]

hey chenhan, your babies very red lioa, can jarr already , so when you want to do it.they are very red, can jar the bigger ones(first spawn).

[derrick kuah]

hey chenhan, your babies very red lioa, can jarr already , so when you want to do it.they are very red, can jar the bigger ones(first spawn).

[Toh Chen Han]

Hi Derrick, I am waiting for this news 24 hours a day for the last few weeks haha. U free this Saturday? =) Or tommorrow also can if want asap.

[Toh Chen Han]

Hi Derrick, I am waiting for this news 24 hours a day for the last few weeks haha. U free this Saturday? =) Or tommorrow also can if want asap.

[Kelvin Tan]

how do you maintain the finnage as they grow old. yr red seems to have very strong tail, cos usually red or white tail tends to be droopy when not taken well of.
are there any cambodian genes inside yr red?

chenhan you got red spawn too eh? whose line?

[Kelvin Tan]

how do you maintain the finnage as they grow old. yr red seems to have very strong tail, cos usually red or white tail tends to be droopy when not taken well of.
are there any cambodian genes inside yr red?

chenhan you got red spawn too eh? whose line?

[Mark Choon]

eh chenhan now my turn to ask
got any HM in that spawn?

my reds are kaput

[Mark Choon]

eh chenhan now my turn to ask
got any HM in that spawn?

my reds are kaput

[derrick kuah]

ha .ha. don,t ask chenhan , ask me...spawn with me ,only 6-7 weeks ,how to get hms.

[derrick kuah]

ha .ha. don,t ask chenhan , ask me...spawn with me ,only 6-7 weeks ,how to get hms.

[Foo Hong]

errr....my spawn #1 has sort of reached the beginning of their 'puberty' stage. hasnt seen any HM yet and dont think there looks like there ll be any. This is also teh spawn of my life...with the highest ratio of stupid runts.

This is strange considering their parents. I will be keeping several pairs for future F2 breeding. technically speaking, from past experience, some good throw-backs should emerge.

[Foo Hong]

errr....my spawn #1 has sort of reached the beginning of their 'puberty' stage. hasnt seen any HM yet and dont think there looks like there ll be any. This is also teh spawn of my life...with the highest ratio of stupid runts.

This is strange considering their parents. I will be keeping several pairs for future F2 breeding. technically speaking, from past experience, some good throw-backs should emerge.

[Myron Tay]

Kelvin

Not really sure who you are addressing, but I would assume this question is for Derrick. I also share the same experience of droopy tails in the reds, but there would be the select few that would be outstanding.

In my short experience, I believe that Sarawut's line seems to have strong tails as I have been convinced they had been crossed to irids lines some generations back. It seems that the line has also inherited a lot of the characteristics of irids lines, only that the irids has been converted to red colour.

Derrick, what about the Sai Cho reds?

quote:Originally posted by Kelvin Tan

how do you maintain the finnage as they grow old. yr red seems to have very strong tail, cos usually red or white tail tends to be droopy when not taken well of.
are there any cambodian genes inside yr red?

chenhan you got red spawn too eh? whose line?

[Myron Tay]

Kelvin

Not really sure who you are addressing, but I would assume this question is for Derrick. I also share the same experience of droopy tails in the reds, but there would be the select few that would be outstanding.

In my short experience, I believe that Sarawut's line seems to have strong tails as I have been convinced they had been crossed to irids lines some generations back. It seems that the line has also inherited a lot of the characteristics of irids lines, only that the irids has been converted to red colour.

Derrick, what about the Sai Cho reds?

quote:Originally posted by Kelvin Tan

how do you maintain the finnage as they grow old. yr red seems to have very strong tail, cos usually red or white tail tends to be droopy when not taken well of.
are there any cambodian genes inside yr red?

chenhan you got red spawn too eh? whose line?

[Kelvin Tan]

note derrick la cos i never seen any of his fish. its my other frens, and from what i have gathered.

[Kelvin Tan]

note derrick la cos i never seen any of his fish. its my other frens, and from what i have gathered.

[Myron Tay]

Thanks Kelvin for the clarification. So I would be thick skin and assume you are addressing me and my line of fish. :D

Your compliments should be directed, as mentioned before, to Sarawut. He has a good line that is strong in finnage, though lacking in colour. Last I checked with him, he is working on that. His line is responsible for the strong caudal and great finnage overall. Will bring some of the fishes to the exhibition for comments, please.

On your second question, from what I understand, there are cambodian and yellow genes in the line. However, there are only extended reds in my spawn.

[Myron Tay]

Thanks Kelvin for the clarification. So I would be thick skin and assume you are addressing me and my line of fish. :D

Your compliments should be directed, as mentioned before, to Sarawut. He has a good line that is strong in finnage, though lacking in colour. Last I checked with him, he is working on that. His line is responsible for the strong caudal and great finnage overall. Will bring some of the fishes to the exhibition for comments, please.

On your second question, from what I understand, there are cambodian and yellow genes in the line. However, there are only extended reds in my spawn.

[Toh Chen Han]

Hi Kelvin and Mark,

Kelvin the reds are from Saichon line. I think it carries DT genes but no cambo. Actually a bit paisey to call it mine cos Derrick is the one who sourced the fish and spawned them and raised the fries. Haha...me only technical owner of the parents.

Mark, I don't know if there are any halfmoons but I wouldn't really expect to see any, although anything is possible. Neither parent is a halfmoon so I can't even call my fries HM fries, or HM's fries or HM geno fries haha. Its just superdelta's fries. Well I will jar some of them and see what happens lah.

Kelvin, did you spawn your ABC champion DT red?

[Toh Chen Han]

Hi Kelvin and Mark,

Kelvin the reds are from Saichon line. I think it carries DT genes but no cambo. Actually a bit paisey to call it mine cos Derrick is the one who sourced the fish and spawned them and raised the fries. Haha...me only technical owner of the parents.

Mark, I don't know if there are any halfmoons but I wouldn't really expect to see any, although anything is possible. Neither parent is a halfmoon so I can't even call my fries HM fries, or HM's fries or HM geno fries haha. Its just superdelta's fries. Well I will jar some of them and see what happens lah.

Kelvin, did you spawn your ABC champion DT red?

[Mark Choon]

sigh...
seeing all the reds here really making me drool
really makes me want to get a good pair to start out with...

but alas i think i should concentrate on 1 line first haha

[Mark Choon]

sigh...
seeing all the reds here really making me drool
really makes me want to get a good pair to start out with...

but alas i think i should concentrate on 1 line first haha

[Toh Chen Han]

yeahlah...later ur uni chase you out of halls then u know haha. me also running the risk of eviction already, thats why scared to breed liowz

[Toh Chen Han]

yeahlah...later ur uni chase you out of halls then u know haha. me also running the risk of eviction already, thats why scared to breed liowz

[derrick kuah]

myron , basically Saichon red is like any thai red. and i belived ,he breed his red to yellow(tk lee line) and totoro iress line . That is why ,you will find saichon red dorsai is big and rays on caudal ,is thick and straight but its still has its fault like other, dark scales and iress on caudal when young.
right now , jarred a few spawn, found most with iress from earliest spawn (lefyt over fishes from comp). the new spawn , the fries are very red and the finnages are better.found some ,look like dt(same form as dt)but its a single tail type, very good form (give one to chris ,don,t know how it is now). hopefully , will get more from the later spawns.
myron, also found some lighter colour , more to brown tham red . why it is like this?.

[derrick kuah]

myron , basically Saichon red is like any thai red. and i belived ,he breed his red to yellow(tk lee line) and totoro iress line . That is why ,you will find saichon red dorsai is big and rays on caudal ,is thick and straight but its still has its fault like other, dark scales and iress on caudal when young.
right now , jarred a few spawn, found most with iress from earliest spawn (lefyt over fishes from comp). the new spawn , the fries are very red and the finnages are better.found some ,look like dt(same form as dt)but its a single tail type, very good form (give one to chris ,don,t know how it is now). hopefully , will get more from the later spawns.
myron, also found some lighter colour , more to brown tham red . why it is like this?.

[Myron Tay]

Thanks for sharing Derrick. Not really sure what is the cause of the semi-runts as Foo Hong calls them (they have great finnage right?) but I suspect that it is another trait that was inherited from the irids line. They (the traits) come in a package, both good (better finnage) and bad (semi-runts). Cheers!

quote:Originally posted by derrick kuah

myron , basically Saichon red is like any thai red. and i belived ,he breed his red to yellow(tk lee line) and totoro iress line . That is why ,you will find saichon red dorsai is big and rays on caudal ,is thick and straight but its still has its fault like other, dark scales and iress on caudal when young.
right now , jarred a few spawn, found most with iress from earliest spawn (lefyt over fishes from comp). the new spawn , the fries are very red and the finnages are better.found some ,look like dt(same form as dt)but its a single tail type, very good form (give one to chris ,don,t know how it is now). hopefully , will get more from the later spawns.
myron, also found some lighter colour , more to brown tham red . why it is like this?.

[Myron Tay]

Thanks for sharing Derrick. Not really sure what is the cause of the semi-runts as Foo Hong calls them (they have great finnage right?) but I suspect that it is another trait that was inherited from the irids line. They (the traits) come in a package, both good (better finnage) and bad (semi-runts). Cheers!

quote:Originally posted by derrick kuah

myron , basically Saichon red is like any thai red. and i belived ,he breed his red to yellow(tk lee line) and totoro iress line . That is why ,you will find saichon red dorsai is big and rays on caudal ,is thick and straight but its still has its fault like other, dark scales and iress on caudal when young.
right now , jarred a few spawn, found most with iress from earliest spawn (lefyt over fishes from comp). the new spawn , the fries are very red and the finnages are better.found some ,look like dt(same form as dt)but its a single tail type, very good form (give one to chris ,don,t know how it is now). hopefully , will get more from the later spawns.
myron, also found some lighter colour , more to brown tham red . why it is like this?.

[Foo Hong]

Yes...whenever an outcross is made...u get a package deal :D

Since I do a lot of line breeding, I am hopeful that gud fishes will re-emerge. and its those few in this next generation that will you are seeking which has the best of both worlds from their grand daddy and grand mum. My current black line#1 is a good example, in terms of finnage the F1 was a far cry from the original pair. But the now F2 has shown much improvement over the F1, altho unfortunately the better ones went to the steel-blues. With 1 or 2 more generations, good black males will emerge. And the same shld apply in reds.

But heh! Red Spawn #2 and #3....akan datang [eb]

In fact was peeping into the #2 tank this morning and saw that there may be a few good red males in the making.....and ironically, their mother wasnt as good as spawn #1 in terms of finnage [which was a semi-runt], but is closer in its bloodline to the male. BTW both spawn #1 and #2 are sired by same male.

[Foo Hong]

Yes...whenever an outcross is made...u get a package deal :D

Since I do a lot of line breeding, I am hopeful that gud fishes will re-emerge. and its those few in this next generation that will you are seeking which has the best of both worlds from their grand daddy and grand mum. My current black line#1 is a good example, in terms of finnage the F1 was a far cry from the original pair. But the now F2 has shown much improvement over the F1, altho unfortunately the better ones went to the steel-blues. With 1 or 2 more generations, good black males will emerge. And the same shld apply in reds.

But heh! Red Spawn #2 and #3....akan datang [eb]

In fact was peeping into the #2 tank this morning and saw that there may be a few good red males in the making.....and ironically, their mother wasnt as good as spawn #1 in terms of finnage [which was a semi-runt], but is closer in its bloodline to the male. BTW both spawn #1 and #2 are sired by same male.

[derrick kuah]

yeh , foohong, i think you are right , for my tk lee black x totoro black , the three steel turned into hm but no hm in black yet.so the irees trait is stronger here right....hope...hope .. f2,,,f3....

[derrick kuah]

yeh , foohong, i think you are right , for my tk lee black x totoro black , the three steel turned into hm but no hm in black yet.so the irees trait is stronger here right....hope...hope .. f2,,,f3....

[Mark Choon]

hmm...so if the parent fish had ok finnage but the offspring really sucked...
a F2 will get back much better finnage?
is this a son x mother or daughter x father or bro x sis?

[Mark Choon]

hmm...so if the parent fish had ok finnage but the offspring really sucked...
a F2 will get back much better finnage?
is this a son x mother or daughter x father or bro x sis?

[Toh Chen Han]

Hi Mark, you may have to try F2 before you give up completely. I talked to many HM breeders and many told me that when you outcross the first spawn will often be a bit crappy but subsequent inbreeding can give you the results you want. I think many of the world famous breeders have the patience to experiment like this thats why they have the results. But of course there is no guarantee or anything. =)

[Toh Chen Han]

Hi Mark, you may have to try F2 before you give up completely. I talked to many HM breeders and many told me that when you outcross the first spawn will often be a bit crappy but subsequent inbreeding can give you the results you want. I think many of the world famous breeders have the patience to experiment like this thats why they have the results. But of course there is no guarantee or anything. =)

[Foo Hong]

In-breed [bt]

brother / sister lah [g2f]

quote:Originally posted by Mark Choon

hmm...so if the parent fish had ok finnage but the offspring really sucked...
a F2 will get back much better finnage?
is this a son x mother or daughter x father or bro x sis?

[Foo Hong]

In-breed [bt]

brother / sister lah [g2f]

quote:Originally posted by Mark Choon

hmm...so if the parent fish had ok finnage but the offspring really sucked...
a F2 will get back much better finnage?
is this a son x mother or daughter x father or bro x sis?

[Victor Chan]

Interesting read. I'm also working on some reds with some bettas derived from Foo Hong's red line. But doing more outcrosses nowadays
My 1st post as a new forum member.

[Myron Tay]

Welcome Victor. Any pics? Would you be bringing your fishes down on Sunday?

quote:Originally posted by Victor Chan

Interesting read. I'm also working on some reds with some bettas derived from Foo Hong's red line. But doing more outcrosses nowadays
My 1st post as a new forum member.

[Victor Chan]

Myron,
Thanks for the welcome. But these frys are just 1 week old :)
The great grandparents of this spawn were from Foo Hong's line. The grand mother was already very old, but I managed to get a spawn out of her (with an outcross)consisting of 7 females..

There are some DTs in this spawn already, but too small to see any potential.

This is daddy

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/Myron Tay/200453131923_image01.jpg

[Chris Yew]

Hi Victor,

Glad you found your way here,haha! Welcome btw.

Pls pls keep us updated with your Red fries. There are still plenty of Red lovers around.

[Myron Tay]

Foo Hong would be very pleased....

[Foo Hong]

Oh [ber]

This is like the indiana jones movie :D

At least someone is still having the aquarama 2001 red line. Sky got eyes [col]

[Myron Tay]

Finally tested the pH of the water in my community tank (5.0), individual tanks (6.5)and aged water (8.0). Aged water with Tetra Blackwater extract (6.5). Looks like I need to lower my pH in my aged water before pouring them into the individual tanks. Seems like this is more likely the problem than the over-dosage of Aquaplus. Guys, you should do a pH check as well. I am using Tetra pH tester ($10).

[Toh Chen Han]

Myron, I am not sure about this but there possible tradeoff btw 4 ray strong HM and 16 ray weak HM is the ray extensions. The reds from 'strong ray' lines like sarawuts and saichons seem to have this ray extension problem.

[Myron Tay]

The million dollar question. Here's another one. Do you work on the finnage first or colour? My answer: Finnage. Cause it is more marketable. At least in Singapore. You can work on the colour subsequently, financed by the profits from your finnage fish.

My take on your question: I would prefer the latter. This is based on Sarawut's experience as his fish turned from intense black red to white head red in one generation! In any case, I believe that there are other BCS members trying to do the first method in your question. Guess we would have to wait and see the results. Believe we would have something come Aquarama. Are you getting excited yet?

quote:Originally posted by tohchenhan

I wonder if it would be easier to work from a less intense red (with white spots on head - ala first pic) to perfect red, or to work an intense red with black scales and blue irids and clear band to perfection.

[Myron Tay]

Good observation. Sarawut mentioned that this is becoming more and more of a problem for his line. We would have to watch this.

quote:Originally posted by tohchenhan

Myron, I am not sure about this but there possible tradeoff btw 4 ray strong HM and 16 ray weak HM is the ray extensions. The reds from 'strong ray' lines like sarawuts and saichons seem to have this ray extension problem.

[Toh Chen Han]

Heh...well just have to wait and see. Really hope to see some spectacular showings at Aquarama!

[Foo Hong]

well I certainly would not bid for the red hm currently at USD84? It has 4 rays and looks Ok as it is himself. but what are u gonna pair him to? if u get him his sister as mate, then u prob gonna get same offsprings. If u outcroos this guy, his mate had better be at least an 8 ray female red[which is so rare] cos otherwise, u lose the rays and pethaps also lose other things.

[Toh Chen Han]

But he is living proof that the emphasis on number (cf strength) of rays may be on the way out.

[Myron Tay]

I would agree with your assessment Chen Han. Personally, I would like to see less rays and more of the finnage.

quote:Originally posted by tohchenhan

But he is living proof that the emphasis on number (cf strength) of rays may be on the way out.

[Toh Chen Han]

It's early days still...have to wait and see how the different lines develop. Can't write-off the time-tested HM-producing methods so fast.

But notice for other colours the focus on no. of rays seems to work beautifully. For red, even with many rays we can't get HM consistently. Then these new 4 ray lines come along with more HM consistency than ever!

I just checked out a pic of a totoro red (i think Myron has the pic in his album)....also not many rays. It barely has 8 rays (tertiery splits right at the end of the caudal). The main strong rays only 4. Don't know whether the fish in the picture above got the 4 ray trait from totoro line or sarawut's own line.

Myron, your NBC red HM got how many rays?

[Myron Tay]

Good question. 16 rays. So I guess the 4 ray trait is probably from the Totoro line.

[Toh Chen Han]

Hmm....I actually assumed the Sarawut was also 4 ray (cos I noticed your recent batch resembles the 4 strongray type, which I doubt comes from the FooHOng-LengLim side) - thats why I said it was consistent HM producer. =p

[Myron Tay]

Nope. Some have eight rays already. They would probably reach 16 rays. Just wait and see lah.

quote:Originally posted by tohchenhan

Hmm....I actually assumed the Sarawut was also 4 ray (cos I noticed your recent batch resembles the 4 strongray type, which I doubt comes from the FooHOng-LengLim side) - thats why I said it was consistent HM producer. =p

[Toh Chen Han]

Myron, this thread getting cold leh. Wanted to turn on the heat with a quartet of photos of a red overhalfmoon placed for auction by sarawut (saw it last night) but the fish seems to have been taken off the auction.

[Toh Chen Han]

Myron, this thread getting cold leh. Wanted to turn on the heat with a quartet of photos of a red overhalfmoon placed for auction by sarawut (saw it last night) but the fish seems to have been taken off the auction.

[Myron Tay]

How about checking the latest update of my fishes (3 months) in my album?

[Myron Tay]

How about checking the latest update of my fishes (3 months) in my album?

[Toh Chen Han]

THe red became deeper and the irids seem to have eased up hor? Finnage very nice!

[Toh Chen Han]

THe red became deeper and the irids seem to have eased up hor? Finnage very nice!

[Myron Tay]

Agree with your observations, but the irids still can be cleaned up more and the clear bands seem to be still there except for one of them. Bottom line: Still got lots of room for improvement.

quote:Originally posted by tohchenhan

The red became deeper and the irids seem to have eased up hor? Finnage very nice!

[Myron Tay]

Agree with your observations, but the irids still can be cleaned up more and the clear bands seem to be still there except for one of them. Bottom line: Still got lots of room for improvement.

quote:Originally posted by tohchenhan

The red became deeper and the irids seem to have eased up hor? Finnage very nice!

[derrick kuah]

Myron , i have a spawn between saichon with strait,s female(wengyoung property). they are about 10 weeks now . Also show the transparent edge, like thier mother. thought , could improve "them" by crossing with saichon but.....only thing is they are darker in colour(red)and less iress.

[derrick kuah]

Myron , i have a spawn between saichon with strait,s female(wengyoung property). they are about 10 weeks now . Also show the transparent edge, like thier mother. thought , could improve "them" by crossing with saichon but.....only thing is they are darker in colour(red)and less iress.

[Toh Chen Han]

even using both saichon parents without the butterfly edge, the fries produce have it. =(

[Toh Chen Han]

even using both saichon parents without the butterfly edge, the fries produce have it. =(

[derrick kuah]

So what you think?/ its the "normal" trait of red or ..?. how to get rid of these"irritating ---- ".

[derrick kuah]

So what you think?/ its the "normal" trait of red or ..?. how to get rid of these"irritating ---- ".

[Myron Tay]

As Foo Hong has suggested, I would go with selecting pairs without the black edges to breed.

quote:Originally posted by derrick kuah

So what you think?/ its the "normal" trait of red or ..?. how to get rid of these"irritating ---- ".

[Myron Tay]

As Foo Hong has suggested, I would go with selecting pairs without the black edges to breed.

quote:Originally posted by derrick kuah

So what you think?/ its the "normal" trait of red or ..?. how to get rid of these"irritating ---- ".

[Chris Yew]

The Black rim or oval spot of black at the edge of the scales are caused by the red developing a bit slower than other pigments. These often noticed at the fin growth too. Thus the red pigment may be thinner or less dense in color at the tips of the fins as they grow longer.

Dr.Gene Lucas consider the best reds are what the cherry reds. They possess the "blond" gene which reduces the amount of black and seems to reciprocally enhance the intensity of red.

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

As Foo Hong has suggested, I would go with selecting pairs without the black edges to breed.

quote:Originally posted by derrick kuah

So what you think?/ its the "normal" trait of red or ..?. how to get rid of these"irritating ---- ".

[Chris Yew]

The Black rim or oval spot of black at the edge of the scales are caused by the red developing a bit slower than other pigments. These often noticed at the fin growth too. Thus the red pigment may be thinner or less dense in color at the tips of the fins as they grow longer.

Dr.Gene Lucas consider the best reds are what the cherry reds. They possess the "blond" gene which reduces the amount of black and seems to reciprocally enhance the intensity of red.

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

As Foo Hong has suggested, I would go with selecting pairs without the black edges to breed.

quote:Originally posted by derrick kuah

So what you think?/ its the "normal" trait of red or ..?. how to get rid of these"irritating ---- ".

[Myron Tay]

Just recently read a genetic article by Dr Gene Lucas regarding reds and he states and I quote "red color is tough to write about. This summary may be more confusing than revealing." The problem of reds is that the genetic mechanisms involved are not of the simple type best understood by the beginner. This was written in 1974, but the problems he highlighted then (black scales, black edged fins and irids) are still with us today.

Looks like my award for extended reds is really needed.

[Myron Tay]

Just recently read a genetic article by Dr Gene Lucas regarding reds and he states and I quote "red color is tough to write about. This summary may be more confusing than revealing." The problem of reds is that the genetic mechanisms involved are not of the simple type best understood by the beginner. This was written in 1974, but the problems he highlighted then (black scales, black edged fins and irids) are still with us today.

Looks like my award for extended reds is really needed.

[Foo Hong]

want to see some chilli reds? [eb] go down to the open house this w/e. :)

Bring one or 2 little brats which hasnt finned out...kekeke :D. Not saying they will be HMs but having neglected reds for a while and only started some time back after talking to Myron, its good to see red bettas swimming again after a long lull!:) Reds are really eye - catching [eb]

[Foo Hong]

want to see some chilli reds? [eb] go down to the open house this w/e. :)

Bring one or 2 little brats which hasnt finned out...kekeke :D. Not saying they will be HMs but having neglected reds for a while and only started some time back after talking to Myron, its good to see red bettas swimming again after a long lull!:) Reds are really eye - catching [eb]

[Lim Aik Seng]

quote:Originally posted by Foo Hong

want to see some chilli reds? [eb] go down to the open house this w/e. :)

Bring one or 2 little brats which hasnt finned out...kekeke :D. Not saying they will be HMs but having neglected reds for a while and only started some time back after talking to Myron, its good to see red bettas swimming again after a long lull!:) Reds are really eye - catching [eb]

wat openhse ??????

[Lim Aik Seng]

quote:Originally posted by Foo Hong

want to see some chilli reds? [eb] go down to the open house this w/e. :)

Bring one or 2 little brats which hasnt finned out...kekeke :D. Not saying they will be HMs but having neglected reds for a while and only started some time back after talking to Myron, its good to see red bettas swimming again after a long lull!:) Reds are really eye - catching [eb]

wat openhse ??????

[Foo Hong]

open house this weekend at Simon Tan place.

[Foo Hong]

open house this weekend at Simon Tan place.

[Myron Tay]

Mr Kang

Could I invite you to share with us your experience in producing your excellent line of red HMs, please?

[Myron Tay]

Comments on the winning red at the recent BK competition:

http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76402&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

Just some personal thoughts that I think would be useful for breeders.

It's proportion is way-off (ventral and anal fins are too long). The colour looks quite good except for the normal problems of irids and black scales / edges of fins. Personally, I have seen much better red HMs and much, much better HMs in general.

[Myron Tay]

Episode 4

Now that I have achieved the HM form in some of my fish, I am working currently on the following that I see as faults in my line:

(i) Removing the remaining irridescence
(ii) Removing more of the black scales and black edges
(iii) Improving on the intensity of the colour
(iv) Increasing size

Especially concentrating on (i) and (ii), without compromising on (iii) and (iv). Will probably take a miracle from God.

End of Episode 4.

[Phil]

Myron, your dedication on the RED HM is unsurpassed! Keep up the great work.

[Myron Tay]

Just learning from you and your devotion to the crowntails and blue butterflies. :D I guess it is another A on my report card!

quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

Myron, your dedication on the RED HM is unsurpassed! Keep up the great work.

[Phil]

Myron, please don't embarass me. I am learning equally as much from you and you do deserve all the As. Well I'm off do take care

[KY Foong]

I spawned Myron's male with the female from my line. Just jarred them after some torn fins. Recovering quite fast. Myron, we all learn from you too. Never give up. I have wasted a lot of them in the finishing line refusing to believe that they need big space and clean water. That was what Phil told me when I visited his house about 2 years ago. Phil, sorry doubted your words. Now kept them in bigger tanks...watch for this pics on this space soon.

[Myron Tay]

Wow! Can't wait. Stay tuned folks!!!

[Phil]

No problem KY we are all still learning. Really looking forward to your HM postings.


quote:Originally posted by KY Foong

I spawned Myron's male with the female from my line. Just jarred them after some torn fins. Recovering quite fast. Myron, we all learn from you too. Never give up. I have wasted a lot of them in the finishing line refusing to believe that they need big space and clean water. That was what Phil told me when I visited his house about 2 years ago. Phil, sorry doubted your words. Now kept them in bigger tanks...watch for this pics on this space soon.

[Myron Tay]

Episode 5

One dream realised: http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1513

[Myron Tay]

Jarred two from my latest spawns over the weekend. The one I brought to Betta Compare looks like it would be a halfmoon already after flaring with the excellent bettas at the Betta Compare. Will try to put up some pictures soon, but he looks like his father (when the father was younger as pictured below)and he is the largest of my two spawns of fries. They are really a joy to behold at this age (soon to be 2 months).

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/photoalbum/Myron%20Tay/Red%20HM%206%20080303.jpg

[Myron Tay]

Jarred two from my latest spawns over the weekend. The one I brought to Betta Compare looks like it would be a halfmoon already after flaring with the excellent bettas at the Betta Compare. Will try to put up some pictures soon, but he looks like his father (when the father was younger as pictured below)and he is the largest of my two spawns of fries. They are really a joy to behold at this age (soon to be 2 months).

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/photoalbum/Myron%20Tay/Red%20HM%206%20080303.jpg

[terence tan]

very beautiful~~ almost whole fish is red~ just a question, the edges of the caudal fin for the male seems to be transclucent, is dat deliberate? :D

[terence tan]

very beautiful~~ almost whole fish is red~ just a question, the edges of the caudal fin for the male seems to be transclucent, is dat deliberate? :D

[Myron Tay]

Nope, it is not. But it is a young fish and as it matured, it mostly grew out of it. But it is a fault still.

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/photoalbum/Myron%20Tay/HM1.jpg

[Myron Tay]

Nope, it is not. But it is a young fish and as it matured, it mostly grew out of it. But it is a fault still.

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/photoalbum/Myron%20Tay/HM1.jpg

[Toh Chen Han]

Wah myron, next generation of stunners out already??? Drool! =p~~~

[Toh Chen Han]

Wah myron, next generation of stunners out already??? Drool! =p~~~

[terence tan]

almost perfect already~~ u really do set very high standards~~ all the best!

[terence tan]

almost perfect already~~ u really do set very high standards~~ all the best!

[Toh Chen Han]

Myron is waiting for the day of perfect, no-clear-band, crisp edge (ala totoro) caudals =)

[Toh Chen Han]

Myron is waiting for the day of perfect, no-clear-band, crisp edge (ala totoro) caudals =)

[Myron Tay]

Hey, a fella can dream, can't he? :D

[Myron Tay]

Hey, a fella can dream, can't he? :D

[terence tan]

yeah~~~ dream hard and work towards it, got dreams then got hope~ :D
im working on mine liao hehe :D

[terence tan]

yeah~~~ dream hard and work towards it, got dreams then got hope~ :D
im working on mine liao hehe :D

[KY Foong]

Myron, Beautiful Fish. I am like you trying to rid of the blacks and irids. I currently have 3 lines. Thought to have joint effort for economy of labour division. We all learn from one another. Phil I still remember your advice. HM? Min 3L of water in glass tank else don't expect to hold for long even if you get a HM. BS! (in my mind then, sorry). Thanks for your advice
I had one in a PET container. 180 deg but for only 3 weeks! Bitter lesson on being stubborn.

[KY Foong]

Myron, Beautiful Fish. I am like you trying to rid of the blacks and irids. I currently have 3 lines. Thought to have joint effort for economy of labour division. We all learn from one another. Phil I still remember your advice. HM? Min 3L of water in glass tank else don't expect to hold for long even if you get a HM. BS! (in my mind then, sorry). Thanks for your advice
I had one in a PET container. 180 deg but for only 3 weeks! Bitter lesson on being stubborn.

[Phil]

Hi Ky, no hard feelings I have to share part of the blame too, for being a snob and not explaining things properly. My current water flow system appears to be doing some good for the HMs. In fact the butterfly HM at the BBQ was already over 6 months old. It was bred after the BK competition and is still holding well, although it has lost some of its vigor. I am actually just keeping the old man to really see how long I can maintain his finnage. Hopefully I can stretch the average 2 months enjoyment gap to 4 months, to popularise the HM again. It is really pityful if we can only enjoy our HMs for such short periods only. Hence if my test prove successful I would be only too happy to share the concept with all of you, so that everyone would be able to enjoy their HMs. Well I am off again. See you guys in mid September.

[Phil]

Hi Ky, no hard feelings I have to share part of the blame too, for being a snob and not explaining things properly. My current water flow system appears to be doing some good for the HMs. In fact the butterfly HM at the BBQ was already over 6 months old. It was bred after the BK competition and is still holding well, although it has lost some of its vigor. I am actually just keeping the old man to really see how long I can maintain his finnage. Hopefully I can stretch the average 2 months enjoyment gap to 4 months, to popularise the HM again. It is really pityful if we can only enjoy our HMs for such short periods only. Hence if my test prove successful I would be only too happy to share the concept with all of you, so that everyone would be able to enjoy their HMs. Well I am off again. See you guys in mid September.

[Myron Tay]

Phil

As mentioned, my last experiment ended at 7 mths (when it came time to breed them). But HMs are at least able to hold the finnage till they are that age.

quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

My current water flow system appears to be doing some good for the HMs. In fact the butterfly HM at the BBQ was already over 6 months old. It was bred after the BK competition and is still holding well, although it has lost some of its vigor. I am actually just keeping the old man to really see how long I can maintain his finnage. Hopefully I can stretch the average 2 months enjoyment gap to 4 months, to popularise the HM again. It is really pityful if we can only enjoy our HMs for such short periods only. Hence if my test prove successful I would be only too happy to share the concept with all of you, so that everyone would be able to enjoy their HMs.

[Myron Tay]

Phil

As mentioned, my last experiment ended at 7 mths (when it came time to breed them). But HMs are at least able to hold the finnage till they are that age.

quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

My current water flow system appears to be doing some good for the HMs. In fact the butterfly HM at the BBQ was already over 6 months old. It was bred after the BK competition and is still holding well, although it has lost some of its vigor. I am actually just keeping the old man to really see how long I can maintain his finnage. Hopefully I can stretch the average 2 months enjoyment gap to 4 months, to popularise the HM again. It is really pityful if we can only enjoy our HMs for such short periods only. Hence if my test prove successful I would be only too happy to share the concept with all of you, so that everyone would be able to enjoy their HMs.

[Phil]

Thanks Myron,Yes I can see that the fish is getting a little sluggish, but I would really like to see if I can maintain their beauty beyond that; say up to 9 - 10 months. I believe that if we can stretch their beauty time zone to 6 - 7 months rather than the current 2-3 months, through an idiot proof method of raising HMs, we would be able to encourage our fellow hobbyist back to keeeping HMs. I am now in Jakarta and would not be able to correspond so often for the next 10 days or so. My bettas are left to the care of my maid. I am sure that if my maid can handle the bettas through this system, so too would anyone else. Just hoping that it works.

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

Phil

As mentioned, my last experiment ended at 7 mths (when it came time to breed them). But HMs are at least able to hold the finnage till they are that age.

quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

My current water flow system appears to be doing some good for the HMs. In fact the butterfly HM at the BBQ was already over 6 months old. It was bred after the BK competition and is still holding well, although it has lost some of its vigor. I am actually just keeping the old man to really see how long I can maintain his finnage. Hopefully I can stretch the average 2 months enjoyment gap to 4 months, to popularise the HM again. It is really pityful if we can only enjoy our HMs for such short periods only. Hence if my test prove successful I would be only too happy to share the concept with all of you, so that everyone would be able to enjoy their HMs.

[Phil]

Thanks Myron,Yes I can see that the fish is getting a little sluggish, but I would really like to see if I can maintain their beauty beyond that; say up to 9 - 10 months. I believe that if we can stretch their beauty time zone to 6 - 7 months rather than the current 2-3 months, through an idiot proof method of raising HMs, we would be able to encourage our fellow hobbyist back to keeeping HMs. I am now in Jakarta and would not be able to correspond so often for the next 10 days or so. My bettas are left to the care of my maid. I am sure that if my maid can handle the bettas through this system, so too would anyone else. Just hoping that it works.

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

Phil

As mentioned, my last experiment ended at 7 mths (when it came time to breed them). But HMs are at least able to hold the finnage till they are that age.

quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

My current water flow system appears to be doing some good for the HMs. In fact the butterfly HM at the BBQ was already over 6 months old. It was bred after the BK competition and is still holding well, although it has lost some of its vigor. I am actually just keeping the old man to really see how long I can maintain his finnage. Hopefully I can stretch the average 2 months enjoyment gap to 4 months, to popularise the HM again. It is really pityful if we can only enjoy our HMs for such short periods only. Hence if my test prove successful I would be only too happy to share the concept with all of you, so that everyone would be able to enjoy their HMs.

[Myron Tay]

Actually, come to think of it, for breeders, it does not matter so long as HM maintain their ability to hold their form till about 6-7 months, because I believe that at that time, it would be the time to breed them.

[Myron Tay]

Actually, come to think of it, for breeders, it does not matter so long as HM maintain their ability to hold their form till about 6-7 months, because I believe that at that time, it would be the time to breed them.

[walt parker]

But we are not all breeders here. I buy bettas at high price so want to enjoy as much as possible. If we cannot get good females no point to breed, because the male usually become bad after breeding.

[walt parker]

But we are not all breeders here. I buy bettas at high price so want to enjoy as much as possible. If we cannot get good females no point to breed, because the male usually become bad after breeding.

[Myron Tay]

Agree, but you have got to start somewhere. Remember, no breeder would sell his absolute best bettas (or even his second best in some cases).

quote:Originally posted by waltz

But we are not all breeders here. I buy bettas at high price so want to enjoy as much as possible. If we cannot get good females no point to breed, because the male usually become bad after breeding.

[Myron Tay]

Agree, but you have got to start somewhere. Remember, no breeder would sell his absolute best bettas (or even his second best in some cases).

quote:Originally posted by waltz

But we are not all breeders here. I buy bettas at high price so want to enjoy as much as possible. If we cannot get good females no point to breed, because the male usually become bad after breeding.

[Myron Tay]

Extremely pleased with this fella from my latest spawn:

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/photoalbum/Myron%20Tay/070903.jpg

He is in a relaxed (unflared position) but is easily a HM at full stretch. Obviously, he has the blond gene (notice the minimal black) and there is some irridescence but only in the fins and it looks like the red is going to cover over all the irrids on the fins too! Extremely intense bright cherry red colour. Slight bump near the head that is bearly noticeable, but overall, a very pleasing specimen (to me personally at least. If nothing else, I bred him!) :D

[Myron Tay]

Extremely pleased with this fella from my latest spawn:

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/photoalbum/Myron%20Tay/070903.jpg

He is in a relaxed (unflared position) but is easily a HM at full stretch. Obviously, he has the blond gene (notice the minimal black) and there is some irridescence but only in the fins and it looks like the red is going to cover over all the irrids on the fins too! Extremely intense bright cherry red colour. Slight bump near the head that is bearly noticeable, but overall, a very pleasing specimen (to me personally at least. If nothing else, I bred him!) :D

[Toh Chen Han]

Hey its v pretty! Hope you follow up with a picture a few weeks on, esp if the colour catches up with the fin growth! I think there are already secondary splits on the anal fin! Next stage: cross to DT for sail-like dorsals? =)

Well done Myron.

[Toh Chen Han]

Hey its v pretty! Hope you follow up with a picture a few weeks on, esp if the colour catches up with the fin growth! I think there are already secondary splits on the anal fin! Next stage: cross to DT for sail-like dorsals? =)

Well done Myron.

[Myron Tay]

Ooh...have a fella like that too. Another very pleasing specimen. Just no time to take pictures...

quote:Originally posted by Toh Chen Han

cross to DT for sail-like dorsals? =)

[Myron Tay]

Ooh...have a fella like that too. Another very pleasing specimen. Just no time to take pictures...

quote:Originally posted by Toh Chen Han

cross to DT for sail-like dorsals? =)

[Toh Chen Han]

No problem, I will drop by and relieve you of that burden to free up some of your time. What are friends for after all? =))

[Toh Chen Han]

No problem, I will drop by and relieve you of that burden to free up some of your time. What are friends for after all? =))

[Phil]

Hi Myron, sadly upon my return my maid handed me back my old man (HM), totally overfed(typical maid's disease)and down with dropsy. Had to put him down hence end of experiment. So it looks like 6.5 months is the maximum in my case. I must say your junior looks good and that hopefully the red pigments will grow over the translucent edges of the caudal. The plus point is that the irrids appear to be much lesser than your previous showcase. Well done.

[Myron Tay]

Here's an example of what I mean when I say that the red fishes tend to grow out of the black edges:

Fish at 2.5 months:

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/photoalbum/Myron%20Tay/Red%20HM%206%20080303.jpg

Here's the same fish at 3.75 months:

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/photoalbum/Myron%20Tay/HM1.jpg

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

Derrick

In my experience, some grow out of it and some don't. It is a common trait amongst reds and believe that it has something to do with the red pigmentation does not spread as fast as the growth of the fins, hence what you see is the black undercoating (?). The Thais call this "thin fin" I believe and they are not entirely wrong it seems! Just have to be patient. Even if they do not grow out of it, I personally do not think that it takes too much away from the beauty of the fish. :D

quote:Originally posted by derrick kuah

myron , noticed the transparent edge on caudal, will the red colour darker(on the transparent edge) when it get older. my also like that. thanks and regards Derrick++

[Myron Tay]

Here's the best from my latest spawn (in terms of finnage):

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/photoalbum/Myron%20Tay/Red%20HM%205.jpg

[Myron Tay]

Just read that for development of red bettas, it is imperative to include carotenoids (beta carotene) in their diets to enhance the red colours. I have found that this is found in Hikari frozen blood worms.

[Myron Tay]

Sarawut's red HM has been placed first in the Class 2 (Dark, Solid colour, non-iridescent single tail) category at Aquarama 2003. Congratulations!

[Myron Tay]

Derrick (who was present at the judging) told me that this and another of my fish had stickers (which indicates his preference?) from Dr Gene Lucas (one of the betta judges of Aquarama 2003). This really made my day. :D :D :D

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

Here's the best from my latest spawn:

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/photoalbum/Myron%20Tay/HMb%20-%203%20months.jpg

[Myron Tay]

I need a good red line to outcross to come end-Dec. Any suggestions?

[Myron Tay]

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/photoalbum/Myron%20Tay/HM1.jpg

The fish above has passed away.

My only consolation is that his offspring would continue to carry his genes. This is the best way to remember a fish in my opinion, something that is very difficult to achieve with bigger fish (since it is more difficult to spawn the fish the bigger it gets especially in land-scarce Singapore!).

Being able to carry on a line is a huge part of what this hobby is all about! So my advice to all you seeking to get out of grieving over your favourite bettas: breed your fish before it passes away. Although no other fish would be able to fill the void left behind (since all fish are different), it helps a great deal to know that his / her kind would never die out as long as you are alive!

[Alex Lim]

Sorry to hear about that~

[Myron Tay]

Have no time to take the picture of the fish, but I have a fish with red loss and because of this, I am able to see the spread of black on this fish. I discovered (to my horror) that there is a black rim on the caudal that is more intense than the spread of black on other parts of the fish. Will work to get this out of my line at my next crossing. It pays to keep such oddballs because they can tell you much!

[VictoriaParnell]

OK, I recently picked up some juvenile females bred by Chok. Decent caudals (4-6 rays), color is actually very good, but dorsals need work:

(and don't make fun of my bad pictures, I am not as good with the camera as most of you boys, [bt])

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/VictoriaParnell/20041132831_maedb2.JPG

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/VictoriaParnell/20041132939_morrigan1.JPG

Also, feedback would be appreciated on this male I am getting from Suporn:

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/VictoriaParnell/200411321046_supornred3.jpg

[Bond]

Hello Victora
I can't judge him with any expeance be hind me. I will leave that to the pros with expearance.
But after being a show judge in to different fields.
One gaines a good eye.And general my first impression, the look is there or it isn't. with me.
And i sure you, this little red betta look, is there with me.
Now let some one els, comment on other.
On takeing the pic. Was very good, it brought out the detail to ketch my first impression.And i would have to revert to the standard for my next opinon
Later Unk Bond

[Myron Tay]

Victoria

Good choice though not much can be said without knowing the genes. Based on what the eye can see, the line would probably have good colour. I would watch the length of the caudal though. Based on the male, it looks a little short.

[Alex Lim]

Victoria,

I love the phenotype of your reds. Details as U. Bond has said are very fine-tuned. Great job~ :D

[Eugene]

Hi Myron,

Very nice fish.

[Myron Tay]

Report: Managed to spawn my third-prize 3rd NBC winning male (as pictured below) to an equally intense sibling female about a month back.

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/photoalbum/Myron%20Tay/Red%20HM%202.jpg

This fella also managed to spawn with a female from Mr Kang's line. The eggs hatched today!

[Lyon Goh]

Sorry, sidetrack abit
Is it advisable to use Ext Reds to breed with my cambos to get a redder finnage?

[Robin ChenCZ]

so any red hm female for sale.... on budget... cheaper... can sms me @ 98188295 or pm me

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by Lyon Goh

Sorry, sidetrack abit
Is it advisable to use Ext Reds to breed with my cambos to get a redder finnage?
Lyon

The belief is that cambodians are used to remove the amount of black on the red lines. Here are my personal thoughts on the matter:

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1178

[VictoriaParnell]

I'm still plugging along with this line.

Pretty good color in this next batch, DT x ST/dt 6-ray female. Large percentage of DT in the fry.

Spawn is 2 months old. Only 2 cambodians, which is better than the previous batches.

[Myron Tay]

I like their colour, Victoria and the lack of black on the fish. How big is the latest batch?

[VictoriaParnell]

There are about 50 jarred now, maybe 75 still in growout.

Had to jar the females too, wicked evil little harpies.

[Myron Tay]

7 month old fish from my halfmoon line (Generation 2):

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/photoalbum/Myron%20Tay/Red%20HM%204.jpg

I kind of like this fella (never been photographed) as he does not have the black rim on his caudal like many of his siblings. He is one of my favourites from the spawn (a late bloomer).

[VictoriaParnell]

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/VictoriaParnell/20042299247_infernored1.jpg

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/VictoriaParnell/200422992433_infernoredstf1.jpg

[Myron Tay]

Very nice, Victoria. I like it very much. Very intense colour. How's the irrids factor?

[VictoriaParnell]

*edited* Sorry guys, this was putting a drain on my server. I'll upload a new pic of him asap.

[Myron Tay]

Good job. The colour is fantastic, though it would be great if he was a halfmoon!

[Charles Lim]

Victoria & Myron

Pardon my ignorance, but what is irids on ext red bettas that we are referring to? I thought I know, but after seeing Victoria's fish above and the subsequent posts, I am thinking that I might be wrong.

Victoria - very nice color! Well done! Is the lack of clarity of the picture due to limitation on size of file on this forum? Or more a limitation of the camera used? You might want to try another pic without zooming so close.

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by Charles Lim

Victoria & Myron

Pardon my ignorance, but what is irids on ext red bettas that we are referring to? I thought I know, but after seeing Victoria's fish above and the subsequent posts, I am thinking that I might be wrong.
Charles

Very often the photographs do not pick up the irridescence on reds very well. This is especially if the lighting is not directly above the front of the fish. Hence, my question to Victoria who is able to see the fish in the flesh.

Victoria - Might want to check the url for the pictures you had posted previously as they seem to be changed.

[VictoriaParnell]

Thanks. I had to reboot my server.

He is a full HM; he was starting to relax from a flare in the 2nd pic. I will try to get my "good" camera down to the shop this week and get a decent pic of him. Right now I'm just using a standard digital.

[Charles Lim]

Myron

You did not quite answer my question. What is irridescence on reds? Is it the purplish/pinkish streaks that appear like rays on the caudal? The parallel line of purplish/pinkish scales on the body? The purplish/pinkish streaks that sometimes appear on the anal or dorsal? Or all the above? Or even something else?

Thanks

[VictoriaParnell]

Well if anyone wants a 2nd opinion of the true form and color of the above fish, ask Uncle Bond - he came to see me today and was able to "meet" the fish in person. LOL

[Charles Lim]

Hi Victoria

Please do not misunderstand. I am not questioning the quality of your red. It's an excellent specimen, and my congrats to you for finally seeing results of hard work. I just want to clarify what we mean by irids when we refer to them for extended reds, and this is a general question. Hope you pardon me, if this is not coming across properly. No offence was meant.

With regards

[VictoriaParnell]

Hey Charles,

No worries mate, I wasn't addressing you in particular...actually, I just wanted to let it be known I got to meet Uncle today, and he was a great guy. First thing he did was come right in and ask to see that red, which I thought was terribly funny!

I'm sorry if it seemed I was being defensive, I assure you that was not the case. :)

[Bond]

quote:Originally posted by VictoriaParnell

Well if anyone wants a 2nd opinion of the true form and color of the above fish, ask Uncle Bond - he came to see me today and was able to "meet" the fish in person. LOL




Hello All
Here is my answer for a 2nd opinion and i asure you i would call it the way i see it.
The picture that is posted is no comparison to seeing him in real life.
Victoria got him to flare for me, and it was worth my time and trip to go see him in real life.
Also i had the pleasure of meeting Victoria and her family.
The strange thing here is, i got aquainted with Victoria on this site.
to find out she was a neighbor by a few miles.
Oh yes by the way i let a pair of blues tag along home with me.
Later Unk Bond

[Alex Lim]

Uncle Bond,

do take several pics of your new fellas and share with us. looking forward to it :D

cheers~

[VictoriaParnell]

Well yes he did, he escaped with two of my best royal HMs, the ole Cur!

Just kidding Uncle, I hope you enjoy them. [pf]


quote:Originally posted by Bond

quote:Originally posted by VictoriaParnell

Well if anyone wants a 2nd opinion of the true form and color of the above fish, ask Uncle Bond - he came to see me today and was able to "meet" the fish in person. LOL




Hello All
Here is my answer for a 2nd opinion and i asure you i would call it the way i see it.
The picture that is posted is no comparison to seeing him in real life.
Victoria got him to flare for me, and it was worth my time and trip to go see him in real life.
Also i had the pleasure of meeting Victoria and her family.
The strange thing here is, i got aquainted with Victoria on this site.
to find out she was a neighbor by a few miles.
Oh yes by the way i let a pair of blues tag along home with me.
Later Unk Bond

[Bond]

quote:Originally posted by VictoriaParnell

Well yes he did, he escaped with two of my best royal HMs, the ole Cur!

Just kidding Uncle, I hope you enjoy them. [pf]


quote:Originally posted by Bond

quote:Originally posted by VictoriaParnell

Well if anyone wants a 2nd opinion of the true form and color of the above fish, ask Uncle Bond - he came to see me today and was able to "meet" the fish in person. LOL




Hello All
Here is my answer for a 2nd opinion and i asure you i would call it the way i see it.
The picture that is posted is no comparison to seeing him in real life.
Victoria got him to flare for me, and it was worth my time and trip to go see him in real life.
Also i had the pleasure of meeting Victoria and her family.
The strange thing here is, i got aquainted with Victoria on this site.
to find out she was a neighbor by a few miles.
Oh yes by the way i let a pair of blues tag along home with me.
Later Unk Bond



Hello all
Yep to the Royal HM. :D And brother and sister at that[col]And they are now settled down in a 10 gal tank a piece.
Now to the cur part, its hines 57 varity, iam -iam.
Now i don't mind what one calls me, as long as one calls me to eat.:D
Victoria has a nice room full of Bettas, and i was so impressed with the type of heat she was useing, that iam going to invest in one of those heaters.
Also she took time out with me, even thow it was her opening day, and had shipments to bag up.
Again Thanks
Later Unk Bond

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by Charles Lim

Myron

You did not quite answer my question. What is irridescence on reds? Is it the purplish/pinkish streaks that appear like rays on the caudal? The parallel line of purplish/pinkish scales on the body? The purplish/pinkish streaks that sometimes appear on the anal or dorsal? Or all the above? Or even something else?

Thanks
Charles

They are any blue, green or purple streak on the body and fins of the fish.

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by Charles Lim

Myron

You did not quite answer my question. What is irridescence on reds? Is it the purplish/pinkish streaks that appear like rays on the caudal? The parallel line of purplish/pinkish scales on the body? The purplish/pinkish streaks that sometimes appear on the anal or dorsal? Or all the above? Or even something else?

Thanks
Charles

They are any blue, green or purple streak on the body and fins of the fish.

[Myron Tay]

Just an update of my latest spawn (my own line):

I was concentrating on improving the colour of my line. I am quite pleased with respect to the reduction of black and irridescence of the spawn, though this has been at the expense of some finnage and some intensity. Will post pictures as soon as I find the time to take them.

[Myron Tay]

Just an update of my latest spawn (my own line):

I was concentrating on improving the colour of my line. I am quite pleased with respect to the reduction of black and irridescence of the spawn, though this has been at the expense of some finnage and some intensity. Will post pictures as soon as I find the time to take them.

[Silas Khor]

Myron,

Can't wait to see how this batch turned out[gd]

[Silas Khor]

Myron,

Can't wait to see how this batch turned out[gd]

[Myron Tay]

One more thing I have to report: I did not get any semi-runts in my latest two spawns. My hypothesis is that the semi-runt is probably caused by a single recessive gene. Guess I would know for sure once I continue with the line.

Also, I have been unable to sport any halfmoons in my latest two spawns. There are several super deltas, but no real halfmoons. Back to the drawing board on the finnage I guess. Sigh...

[Myron Tay]

One more thing I have to report: I did not get any semi-runts in my latest two spawns. My hypothesis is that the semi-runt is probably caused by a single recessive gene. Guess I would know for sure once I continue with the line.

Also, I have been unable to sport any halfmoons in my latest two spawns. There are several super deltas, but no real halfmoons. Back to the drawing board on the finnage I guess. Sigh...

[Lyon Goh]

Take a look at this. Purple Irids is totally absent although a lack of intensity is present at the body

http://ebetta2u.com/photoalbum/albums/userpics/normal_Dscf1099.jpg

[Lyon Goh]

Take a look at this. Purple Irids is totally absent although a lack of intensity is present at the body

http://ebetta2u.com/photoalbum/albums/userpics/normal_Dscf1099.jpg

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by Lyon Goh

Take a look at this. Purple Irids is totally absent although a lack of intensity is present at the body

http://ebetta2u.com/photoalbum/albums/userpics/normal_Dscf1099.jpg
Not totally, still see some tiny streaks, but I agree that it is an excellent example as far as iridescence is concerned. Lyon, may I know the name of the breeder of the fish pictured?

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by Lyon Goh

Take a look at this. Purple Irids is totally absent although a lack of intensity is present at the body

http://ebetta2u.com/photoalbum/albums/userpics/normal_Dscf1099.jpg
Not totally, still see some tiny streaks, but I agree that it is an excellent example as far as iridescence is concerned. Lyon, may I know the name of the breeder of the fish pictured?

[gtkang]

Myron is my cambo line
From gtkang

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/gtkang/200432910455_Dscf0735.jpg

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/gtkang/200432910533_Dscf1099.jpg

[gtkang]

Myron is my cambo line
From gtkang

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/gtkang/200432910455_Dscf0735.jpg

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/gtkang/200432910533_Dscf1099.jpg

[Eugene]

Very much admire your fish Mr. Kang

Cheerio!!
Eugene

[Eugene]

Very much admire your fish Mr. Kang

Cheerio!!
Eugene

[Myron Tay]

No wonder the fish looks familiar...welcome to the forum, Mr Kang!

[Myron Tay]

No wonder the fish looks familiar...welcome to the forum, Mr Kang!

[Lyon Goh]

Yup, its Mr Kang's.
Saw it on Sunpetch's photo gallery. The gallery has good reds

[Lyon Goh]

Yup, its Mr Kang's.
Saw it on Sunpetch's photo gallery. The gallery has good reds

[Lyon Goh]

Here's the link to those great Reds and Cambodians
http://ebetta2u.com/photoalbum/thumbnails.php?album=1

[Lyon Goh]

Here's the link to those great Reds and Cambodians
http://ebetta2u.com/photoalbum/thumbnails.php?album=1

[Myron Tay]

More improvements on my outcross as suggested by Silas:

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/photoalbum/Myron%20Tay/Red%20HM.jpg

Lack or colour at the tips of the fins and signature white tipped ventrals which you may want to eliminate later.

[Myron Tay]

More improvements on my outcross as suggested by Silas:

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/photoalbum/Myron%20Tay/Red%20HM.jpg

Lack or colour at the tips of the fins and signature white tipped ventrals which you may want to eliminate later.

[Eugene]

Congrats Myron...

Nice work.
Just wondering how long do they turn hm for your fish from here?

Cheers
Eugene

[Eugene]

Congrats Myron...

Nice work.
Just wondering how long do they turn hm for your fish from here?

Cheers
Eugene

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by Eugene

Congrats Myron...

Nice work.
Just wondering how long do they turn hm for your fish from here?

Cheers
Eugene
Eugene

You should be able to tell in about a week or so after jarring, if you can't tell already. So far no halfmoons...:( But got some very good, clean superdeltas. :)

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by Eugene

Congrats Myron...

Nice work.
Just wondering how long do they turn hm for your fish from here?

Cheers
Eugene
Eugene

You should be able to tell in about a week or so after jarring, if you can't tell already. So far no halfmoons...:( But got some very good, clean superdeltas. :)

[Silas Khor]

Myron,

I can barely make out the irreds. and the black is very minimal.
The rays look weak at the anal fin in the second pic, or is it just the photo?
Overall, I maintain that they're very nice results![col]

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by Silas Khor

Myron,

The rays look weak at the anal fin in the second pic, or is it just the photo?
Silas

It is just the photo. For the first fish, the anal was nibbed before I could jar the fish. In any case, he is close to a halfmoon.

[Silas Khor]

For a 2 month plus juve, he has promise. As long as the water parameters are okay I don't doubt he'll be halfmoon. Incidently your spawn is about the same age as the next pair I'll be picking up soon.

[Sebas]

Myron,

Good improvement on some points u wanna eliminate. But, the finnage seems to be alittle on the bad side. Yes its a young fish, but apart from the first fish "outcross from mr kang's fish", the other two pieces look rather bad in terms of caudal. The caudal is rounded, the problem with the last ray on the top is glaring.

Sorry about the comments, i know your aim is to get the perfect red color, but the ultimate aim is red HalfMoon right? Anyway, is it the first generation? myron red x kang red? If its so, then no cause for worries as yet, i am sure the next generation will show the true form.