Breeding Reds

[Foo Hong]

Heh.....starting a series of colours here...starting with reds now. I just intend to share with everyone what I encountered when I started reds, not that I got everything right, but in fact many went wrong. As well as a brief discussion on reds as a whole....and pls chip in...I thot we have 100 or so memebers now?

Reds were one of the few colours I added later to my collection. Like many chinese, red for most things are associated with prosperity and luck, so why not red bettas. Lets admit, we all like reds.

About a year and a half ago, I was in Oregon after a biz trip in NYork. Amongst other things bot 1 pair of reds home[not siblings]. female was DTF, male STM. one of the fish came from a reknown breeder[no names pls]. All excited to start with reds. As the fish grew up a month later back in Singapore, I realised they were very much veil-like,,,yuuch! threw them away:(.

At that time, reds were few and most reds in Singapore were from the Leng Lim red line. Colour was good but cant stand the crinkled fins as they age. Didnt want that line. Waited and waited then got a friend in USA to send me some reds, after being convinced that the source was reliable and was a good line. There I started REDS lah!

The colour of the red line was beautiful - in fact the fish I entered and took 1st place at Aquarama probably won due to its colour, although I must admit that there were many nice fishes there. many reds I saw tend to look duller, or has excessive black spots, a little too much irridescence, too much clear areas at the end of fins or a black line at teh edge.

I find that keeping the red colour pure if very challenging. While many say that breeding reds takes away the headache of red-wash, we have to deal with the problems with colour above. What we want is a true EXTENDED RED, not any other type.

Finnage is another difficulty. Teh quality of finnage is still no match agst those irids or blacks or whites. Many derived from Leng s line can have massive volumes of fins[ probably too heavy sometimes], but the rays are often not straight. Rays are also thin and irregular. It seems that P Goettner[and I am not sure] might have bred reds in his irids. Jack/Curtis s reds seem to have been worked on from Goettner's[ again not sure]. All this is base on what I observed from the fishes only.

Ok guys...thats part 1 [to be continued ]. A bit tired typing....next pls ;)

[Samuel Phan]

Hi Foo Hong,

Nice history on reds.
Currently I am also trying to start on reds but my first attempt was a total failure. Both the fish were badly beaten up and no sight of a single egg.

Seems like reds have more attitude when comes to spawning as compared to other colours. Any tricks on Reds that you might be able to shared?

With Best Regards,
Samuel Phan


quote:
Heh.....starting a series of colours here...starting with reds now. I just intend to share with everyone what I encountered when I started reds, not that I got everything right, but in fact many went wrong. As well as a brief discussion on reds as a whole....and pls chip in...I thot we have 100 or so memebers now?

Reds were one of the few colours I added later to my collection. Like many chinese, red for most things are associated with prosperity and luck, so why not red bettas. Lets admit, we all like reds.

About a year and a half ago, I was in Oregon after a biz trip in NYork. Amongst other things bot 1 pair of reds home[not siblings]. female was DTF, male STM. one of the fish came from a reknown breeder[no names pls]. All excited to start with reds. As the fish grew up a month later back in Singapore, I realised they were very much veil-like,,,yuuch! threw them away<img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle>.

At that time, reds were few and most reds in Singapore were from the Leng Lim red line. Colour was good but cant stand the crinkled fins as they age. Didnt want that line. Waited and waited then got a friend in USA to send me some reds, after being convinced that the source was reliable and was a good line. There I started REDS lah!

The colour of the red line was beautiful - in fact the fish I entered and took 1st place at Aquarama probably won due to its colour, although I must admit that there were many nice fishes there. many reds I saw tend to look duller, or has excessive black spots, a little too much irridescence, too much clear areas at the end of fins or a black line at teh edge.

I find that keeping the red colour pure if very challenging. While many say that breeding reds takes away the headache of red-wash, we have to deal with the problems with colour above. What we want is a true EXTENDED RED, not any other type.

Finnage is another difficulty. Teh quality of finnage is still no match agst those irids or blacks or whites. Many derived from Leng s line can have massive volumes of fins[ probably too heavy sometimes], but the rays are often not straight. Rays are also thin and irregular. It seems that P Goettner[and I am not sure] might have bred reds in his irids. Jack/Curtis s reds seem to have been worked on from Goettner's[ again not sure]. All this is base on what I observed from the fishes only.

Ok guys...thats part 1 [to be continued ]. A bit tired typing....next pls <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>




Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Samuel Phan]

Hi All,

We all know that breeding extended red delta is difficult ... I mean to get them to spawn. Is there any truth that Extended Red CT are more willing to breed?

With Best Regards,


Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Foo Hong]

I dont find breeding reds more diff. Its a matter of whether they are ready to breed. Reds, apparently like yellows are very fertile. A smallish female can throw 200 eggs. My last ext red spawn 6 mths back yielded close to 350/400 fries.

[jonpoh]

Hi

I have seen people complaining on how hard good reds to be achieved, but at the same time I see people having success in breeding reds and claims to have reds of 160 spread for sale at $20
How true can that be?

regards
Jonathan Poh




Edited by - jonpoh on 29 Apr 2002 18:41:36

[Chris Yew]

As usual, if that's the case, pls let me know who. It's better for me to buy half a dozen than to spawn them, lol!

Chris Yew
http://bettasonli.netfirms.com


quote:
Hi

I have seen people complaining on how hard good reds to be achieved, but at the same time I see people having success in breeding reds and claims to have reds of 160 spread for sale at $20
How true can that be?

regards
Jonathan Poh




Edited by - jonpoh on 29 Apr 2002 18:41:36

[Myron Tay]

Agree with Foo Hong that the difficulty rests in finding the right pair. Have been fortunate enough to get my last pair to spawn after 2 failed pairs earlier. Have been only able to get 11 little ones (still not sure if they are extended reds or cambodians) from my last spawn though, all deltas only. Sigh! Got to work on raising those numbers....

quote:
I dont find breeding reds more diff. Its a matter of whether they are ready to breed. Reds, apparently like yellows are very fertile. A smallish female can throw 200 eggs. My last ext red spawn 6 mths back yielded close to 350/400 fries.

[Foo Hong]

Heh....keep trying . 11 is better than nothing. At least they can make a team to World Cup 2002 Korea/Japan. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

I am planning to do several reds crosses[actually some already started] as follows:
1. Red STM/DT[straits] x Red STF/DT pineapple geno[Ah san]...spawned! :)
2. Red STM/DT[straits] x Yellow STF/ST camb red geno [ Ah san]..spawned! :)
3. Red STM/DT[straits] x Red STF [ my line]<img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>
4. Red STM/DT[straits] x Red camb DTF [ Jack/curtis]<img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>
5. Red DTM[jack/Curtis] x Red STF [ my line]<img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>
6. Red STM/DT[straits] x Red STF [ jack/curtis ]<img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>

I think that will be enuf for this year...ha! Must get better reds thn the Thais or Americans <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

[Samuel Phan]

Wow ... that is alot of spawns to handle even within a 1 year time span ... or rather 1/2 year. *Faint*

I now have 2 spawns of about 200 fries each and already worrying on how to cope when I have to jar them =(

Seems like have to feed to the Luo Han again. Expensive meals for them ... Straits Opaques and Plakats.

One question ... what is the approx % of fries you cull in each spawn ... assuming that all their finnage are good.

With Best Regards,
Samuel Phan
quote:
Heh....keep trying . 11 is better than nothing. At least they can make a team to World Cup 2002 Korea/Japan. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

I am planning to do several reds crosses[actually some already started] as follows:
1. Red STM/DT[straits] x Red STF/DT pineapple geno[Ah san]...spawned! :)
2. Red STM/DT[straits] x Yellow STF/ST camb red geno [ Ah san]..spawned! :)
3. Red STM/DT[straits] x Red STF [ my line]<img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>
4. Red STM/DT[straits] x Red camb DTF [ Jack/curtis]<img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>
5. Red DTM[jack/Curtis] x Red STF [ my line]<img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>
6. Red STM/DT[straits] x Red STF [ jack/curtis ]<img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>

I think that will be enuf for this year...ha! Must get better reds thn the Thais or Americans <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>




Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[jonpoh]

Ah. Huh!...
Haha! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

That's where you got it confused. You must understand that this is Foo Hong leh.. "Pattern more than Badminton" one leh... So ah..jarring all those fishes is nothing to him.

<img src=icon_smile_shy.gif border=0 align=middle>Tell you the secret behind him.. on how he cope..
His Wife and children sleep downstairs..fishes upstairs.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>lah.

Just joking! Foo Hong.. please don't cull me!<img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle>



jonathan

[Samuel Phan]

HaHaHa ...

I thot using his kids as child labour ... quota ... 200 jars per day. =P

No offence Foo Hong .... please dun cull me too. ha ..

With Best Regards,
Samuel Phan


quote:
Ah. Huh!...
Haha! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

That's where you got it confused. You must understand that this is Foo Hong leh.. "Pattern more than Badminton" one leh... So ah..jarring all those fishes is nothing to him.

<img src=icon_smile_shy.gif border=0 align=middle>Tell you the secret behind him.. on how he cope..
His Wife and children sleep downstairs..fishes upstairs.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>lah.

Just joking! Foo Hong.. please don't cull me!<img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle>



jonathan


Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Jung]

FH,

Methinks the Hawaiian reds have very strong cambodian factor (somehow)... I thought cambo was simple mendellian recessive, but my previous crosses with these ex reds have disproportionately high numbers of cambo offspring. Wonder if its the case for yours (I think between cambo and non, you can differentiate in 2 week old fries already). Also interested in how the straits reds F1s turn out (anyone thinks they have previously been outcrossed to CT ex reds? very curious from what they derived their line...v. bright red, caudal irids, black edging... hmmm...)

[Foo Hong]

Straits red look like leng lim x Curtis Low.

Anyway, good luck to you on 2 x 200 fries. I think u need to take no pay leave to change water, feed bettas. I also have a hungry Soon Hock to feed so can 'alleviate' some of your pain!

My highest cull rate was 100% :) but usually it is about 90% bcos these days I no longer have time or bother to release fishes in batches. If you are interested to know, I only consider 1 female form my last red spawn as breedable female. She is very nice for a red female. Had another 2 more less pretty ones as 'reserves'. the rest, which consists of some camb reds, yellows, out of shape DTFs, etc. are culled.

[Samuel Phan]

Ekkkk!!!! 100% ... I only do that when the spawn is really totally messed up ... just like my Straits Lemon spawn ... in fact for Straits Violet spaen also close to that due to crooked spine problems and alleviated by the missing ventral syndrome.

The recent spawn that I had the Open house ... still got some left and was sold to the LFS. The rest that are not up to standard ... all culled. Now only left about 10 pcs from a spawn of 300.

The 2 X 200 fries from the recent 2 spawns? =)
Shall see the results ... they are all still surviving well and feeding well but just hope that the qulaity is resonable if not superb.

Have another 3-5 spawns to attempt. Duuno whether should try of not ...

- Steel Blue DTM X Royal Blue STF (*)
- Extended Red STM X Extended Red STF (*)
- Extended Red CTM X Extended Red CTF (*)
- Blue Mask CTM X Pastel Green STF (*)
- Black Lace STM X Black Lace CTF
- Blue/White Butterfly STM X Opaque STF (*)
- Opaque STM X Blue/White Butterfly STF

*Sigh* ... not enuf tanks to do all the attempts. =(
Maybe just try a few of those ... with (*)

With Best Regards,
Samuel


quote:
Straits red look like leng lim x Curtis Low.

Anyway, good luck to you on 2 x 200 fries. I think u need to take no pay leave to change water, feed bettas. I also have a hungry Soon Hock to feed so can 'alleviate' some of your pain!

My highest cull rate was 100% :) but usually it is about 90% bcos these days I no longer have time or bother to release fishes in batches. If you are interested to know, I only consider 1 female form my last red spawn as breedable female. She is very nice for a red female. Had another 2 more less pretty ones as 'reserves'. the rest, which consists of some camb reds, yellows, out of shape DTFs, etc. are culled.




Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Chris Yew]

Good Sam, keep trying your Extended Red spawn. I'm still trying now, hehe. It's already the second day, got bubbles still no wrapping contact yet. Shit, feel like showing some RA VCD to the male betta! LOL!

Chris Yew
http://bettasonli.netfirms.com

[Samuel Phan]

Hahaha ... can borrow some from Foo Hong (The Red expert) ... he might have some.

You want US ... he got US.
You ant local ... he got local.

Maybe even got other collection that he never mention b4. =P

Hahaha ...

With Best Regards,
Samuel Phan
quote:
Good Sam, keep trying your Extended Red spawn. I'm still trying now, hehe. It's already the second day, got bubbles still no wrapping contact yet. Shit, feel like showing some RA VCD to the male betta! LOL!

Chris Yew
http://bettasonli.netfirms.com





Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Chris Yew]

I think I prefer Japanese one! LOL!

Chris Yew
http://bettasonli.netfirms.com


quote:
Hahaha ... can borrow some from Foo Hong (The Red expert) ... he might have some.

You want US ... he got US.
You ant local ... he got local.

Maybe even got other collection that he never mention b4. =P

Hahaha ...

With Best Regards,
Samuel Phan
quote:
Good Sam, keep trying your Extended Red spawn. I'm still trying now, hehe. It's already the second day, got bubbles still no wrapping contact yet. Shit, feel like showing some RA VCD to the male betta! LOL!

Chris Yew
http://bettasonli.netfirms.com





Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Samuel Phan]

HAHAHAHA ... *Fell down chair* .....
HAHAHAHA ... din noe Chris can be so .... hmmmm ...
Japanese inclined.

Good choice though ...

With Best Regards,
Samuel Phan

quote:
I think I prefer Japanese one! LOL!

Chris Yew
http://bettasonli.netfirms.com


quote:
Hahaha ... can borrow some from Foo Hong (The Red expert) ... he might have some.

You want US ... he got US.
You ant local ... he got local.

Maybe even got other collection that he never mention b4. =P

Hahaha ...

With Best Regards,
Samuel Phan
quote:
Good Sam, keep trying your Extended Red spawn. I'm still trying now, hehe. It's already the second day, got bubbles still no wrapping contact yet. Shit, feel like showing some RA VCD to the male betta! LOL!

Chris Yew
http://bettasonli.netfirms.com





Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)





Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Samuel Phan]

Hi Chris,

Any luck with your Red spawn? My Red have a large spawn and they are now about 5 days old. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

But dun have actual number because the spawn is now in the same tank with another blue spawn because I used the Red male to foster them. The blue male just gave up on the sacred task of maintaining his own spawn on the second day.

Luckily most if not all the fries survived :)

Now 2 spawns together maybe near to 800 - 1000 fries. Yipee!!!!
Very excited to see how the reds will turn out to be ... of cos the Irid spawn as well. Hopefully can get some HMs.

With Best Regards,
Samuel Phan
quote:
Good Sam, keep trying your Extended Red spawn. I'm still trying now, hehe. It's already the second day, got bubbles still no wrapping contact yet. Shit, feel like showing some RA VCD to the male betta! LOL!

Chris Yew
http://bettasonli.netfirms.com





Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Chris Yew]

HI Samuel,
Still no luck on my Red yet. Congrats on your Red spawn finally. I'm waiting after my HK trip then I spawn them.

Chris Yew
http://bettasonli.netfirms.com

[Samuel Phan]

Hi Chris,

Have a nice trip then ... HK is a nice place.
And yes ... finally ... the 3 spawning attempts almost cost the
pair their lives. Esp the female that got fungus after the first spawn attempt.

With Best Regards,
Samuel Phan

quote:
HI Samuel,
Still no luck on my Red yet. Congrats on your Red spawn finally. I'm waiting after my HK trip then I spawn them.

Chris Yew
http://bettasonli.netfirms.com





Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Jung]

FH,

How are the multiple red spawns? (Particularly interested how the Hawaiian reds turned out... btw, did you get them from Jack or Curtis?)

[Foo Hong]

Nope the hawaiian reds did badly, so did teh yellows. Both yellow spawns died shortly after hatching. They seem to be very low in fertility and vitality. I will have another group coming from these guys and that will be my final attempt.

These guys have been breeding reds into camb reds to improve their red lines. the actual fishes do not look as nice as they appear in teh pics. Their red is not as intense as ours.

[Jung]

<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> So I wasn't the only one... Good luck on your next batch...

[Samuel Phan]

Just an update on my red spawn to keep the thread going ....
The spawn was about 500 pcs with both the parents being Extended Red.

The fries are now about 2 weeks and size about 10mm for the larger ones.

For this spawn ... I have culled pretty extensively maybe due to the large spawn size and also due to space limitation.

All the fries were kept in a 2 ft tank which is now experiencing a over-crowding condition and some fries fail to grow well and were thus discarded.

The Reds have started to show on the fin and head areas and the intensity of the red seems promising.

After culiing ... I still have probably about 300 to 400 pcs ... cant wait to see how they grow up to be.

Will separate them to another 2 ft tank for grow-out.

With Best Regards,
Samuel Phan

quote:
<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> So I wasn't the only one... Good luck on your next batch...




Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Foo Hong]

Wha...cool. I think you need 8 2-feet tanks. its too cramp! I ve got small spawns this time..he!

[Samuel Phan]

Too bad I dun have such an extensive set-up like yours ... but working towards sit ... :)

Meanwhile ... will have to make do with any tanks that I can land on hands on ... somemore my dad now fighting for tank spaces with my due to his newly acquired LHs.

quote:
Wha...cool. I think you need 8 2-feet tanks. its too cramp! I ve got small spawns this time..he!




Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Foo Hong]

start digging a pond in yr garden. that will take care of 400 fries.

[Samuel Phan]

Ha ... That will be for koi lah ...

quote:
start digging a pond in yr garden. that will take care of 400 fries.




Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[jonpoh]

Wonder whether Foo Hong can show us his present state of reds.. How good are they ? and any photos to update the forum. I think it will generate some more interests in it, if someone can post up some pictures.

regards
Jonathan Poh


quote:
Hahaha ... can borrow some from Foo Hong (The Red expert) ... he might have some.

You want US ... he got US.
You ant local ... he got local.

Maybe even got other collection that he never mention b4. =P

Hahaha ...

With Best Regards,
Samuel Phan
quote:
Good Sam, keep trying your Extended Red spawn. I'm still trying now, hehe. It's already the second day, got bubbles still no wrapping contact yet. Shit, feel like showing some RA VCD to the male betta! LOL!

Chris Yew
http://bettasonli.netfirms.com





Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)


jonathan

[Foo Hong]

Will try to picture some when time permits.

Basically, I have re worked my reds. The aquarama line while very good in colour, is unable to produce a nice red HM IMO.

Some plans didnt work out and I ve basically worked these lines.
Red x yellow
red x camb red
red x red [ straits x my line]
red x red/pineapple....[ sucks! culled all ]

probably the 1st n 3rd line shows some promising results. line 1 is very good in terms of traits to get a HM like the steels/royals. Line 3 is good in colour.

Line1 I have only 20 fishes, will F2 by end of month.
Line3 i have staggered spawns, basically will breed the pair until thye comatose !

[Samuel Phan]

Hi Guys,

Can someone try to identify the different good traits and bad traits of the different red lines that the local breeders currently get to work on?

PG Line?
Peter Choo's Line?
Straits Line?
Leng Lim's Line?

Appreciate any comments.
With Best Regards,
Samuel Phan

Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Samuel Phan]

Straits Line?
- Black scales/Blue spots on body
- Pointed anal fin


Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Foo Hong]

Leng Lim line is like the Tai-Ko-tai handphone. That kind of quality is no longer desired......think forward guys!

[Samuel Phan]

So you mean out-dated?

Btw ... have a drought in Reds recently.
Attempted at least 3 pairs and yet no a single fry.

So in your opinion ... which is the best red line available now in Singapore amongst the breeders?

quote:
Leng Lim line is like the Tai-Ko-tai handphone. That kind of quality is no longer desired......think forward guys!




Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[Foo Hong]

I dont know. I havent been tracking anyone..ha! I am breeding 2 more pairs this w/e myself. What happen to yr camb hm?

[Samuel Phan]

Dying soon ... it was from Lin.
Tried him with so many different females that I already lost track.

But for now ... I think it is best for him to rest and eventually meet the betta fairy.

But now I have some other reds to try with ... :)

quote:
I dont know. I havent been tracking anyone..ha! I am breeding 2 more pairs this w/e myself. What happen to yr camb hm?




Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[imported_n/a]

Hello everyone,


Can anyone tell me what fries I will get if I use a red Cambodian STM and extended red STF? What percentage of fries in the 2 colours?

I need to know this before spawning as I would actually prefer to spawn only extended reds.

Looking forward to the answers from the experts here!

Thanks.

Marcus

[Foo Hong]

The camb red gene is recessive to the ext red gene. Hence a cross wil technically give 100% ext red.

However, most of the ext reds in the market has some camb gene in its blood. So dont be surprised if you find a spawn of both colours.

[imported_n/a]

Foo Hong,

Many thanks for your very quick reply. I will breed the pair now. In fact after I posted my earlier msg, my ext red female kept dropping eggs like crazy just because she saw the cambodian male for a second.

I think she is very ready as she also has built up a decent bubble nest. But I have just shifted the male to the spawning tank and I think it would take at least another day before the nest is ready. But the female doesn't want any food at the moment and she's just eating up the eggs she dropped. The stomach looks like it's gonna burst. Don't know whether she'll die. Hope not. I am thinking of not feeding her anymore. Is this the right thing to do?

Kind regards,

Marcus

[Myron Tay]

Sense is that you should keep feeding a variety of foods.

[Samuel Phan]

But normally if you have a female that dropped eggs ... it is better to let her rest a few days before trying to spawn her again.

Guys? agree?

My reason is becuase after the eggs drop ... there wun be much for the male to squeeze anymore and thus a mating ritual would have been damaging to the female.

Also the spawn will have a lower chance of success.

Samuel Phan **** Chiat
(Creator Of Sam's Betta Colour Rendezvous)

[imported_n/a]

Thanks Myron, Samuel,

I agree with you Samuel. The female looks restless and off-colour too. I'll just rest her for a week or so. But I have another extended red female which is only about 2 months old. It has also built a decent bubble nest as well. However its only 8 weeks old and the male is almost twice as big. I am truly afraid that a couple of bites from the male may just kill it.

May I have some opinions on whether I shd go ahead?

Thanks.

Marcus

[Foo Hong]

its not a very good idea.

[Myron Tay]

Agree with Foo Hong.

[imported_n/a]

Thanks again Foo Hong/Myron,

Looks like I have to postpone the spawning for a week. Quite sad really as I was conditioning the female for the last 3 weeks and this has to happen.

Really nice to have the Sifus sharing their knowledge with greenhorns like me. makes me feel important.

Will post again when the need arises.

Best wishes,

Marcus

[Foo Hong]

F2-ing line 1 this weekend....2 pairs :). Fishes predominantly resmeble the hawaiian lines in form and carries yellow too. Hopefully it can throw back some chrome yellows too which will be very <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>!

[imported_n/a]

Hi,

Cannot wait anymore. Forum closing. Just put my reds together. Female seems to be ready with head down and not fighting the male. But male isn't ready as the bubble nest isn't built yet. Keeps whacking the female and female is running away trying to hide among plants in the tank. Maole seems to be contented with the whacking. So I separated them using a transparent divider. Male enjoys looking at the female and not building nest. A real idiot! So I put another divider which only allows them sneak peeks at the sides of divider only.

Is there anything else I could do to hasten things up, especially the male? I did not try black water. But has placed a pretty decent sized ketapang leaf for bubble nest building.

May I have some help from the Sifus/experts please?

Many thanks.

Marcus

[Myron Tay]

Marcus

Understand the anxiety. But really there is nothing you can do but wait and pray that the pair is compatible. If it happens, it happens. if it does not, there would also be another day and another pair. After all, this is just a hobby after all. You would get it right sooner or later. Just persist.

[Samuel Phan]

Can try to use a glass bottle for the female and bring the bottle nearer to the existing bubblenest.

See if the male can add more to the love nest by tomorrow. Then release the female again at night and hope to see results the next day by mid-afternoon.

Sometime when the pair is together for too long ... the male just lose interest in the nest building.

Good Luck ...

[Dr Hsu]

If the female is not getting wacked too severely, then leave them alone. Usually the female will find somewhere where she can hide from the male - usually under a leaf, plant, filter etc at the other end of the tank. Tank must be large (long) enough for the female to get to a distance that is too far from the nest site for the male to feel comfortable for long.

Try using different type nest site - floating plant (try money plant leaf - never tried but should work), styrofoam, half cup etc.

Make sure you feed both fish! I always assume that in cases like this, the male is not in peak condition yet, so he will need some conditioning. If you don't feed him, then he will not come into condition so will just continue attacking the female.

Try removing some water and add new water (ideal about 4-6 inches depth). Water needs to be aged and suitably anti-chlorined etc, or a little rainwater.

After a few days, the male will start to come into condition and be interested in breeding. Don't worry if he doesn't have a nest - he (or she) will build one when they feel the need to - can get a full nest in an hour!

Good luck.

Regards,

Li Chieh

"Good judgement is based on experience, and much of that is based on prior bad judgement!"
"The more I know, the more I know that there is more that I don't know!"

[imported_n/a]

Many thanks to Myron, Samuel and Dr. Hsu for your comments. You are all so eager to help even for a newbie like me. You guys are really great! I have now separated the pair because my female was trapped between the divider and the tank and could not extricate herself without my help. She might have died if I wasn't around to see it happen. Too hazardous for my liking! Now only waiting for the male to build a decent nest before introducing the female.

Myron, I think I share the same passion as you. We only want to spend time on reds. And you have a very nice red in your gallery. Hope to own one like that soon.

I'll do what you all have advised and now to hope for the best and not be too worried about the female being killed. Maybe just a little paranoid.

Warmest regards,

Marcus

[Foo Hong]

some males dislike styro cups and will not bubble under it. Pick a few leaves from yr garden and throw it in. In nature, fallen leaves are where they build nests

[imported_n/a]

I just wanted to give an update on what's happening. I have re-introduced the female into the breeding tank and the male is no longer whacking the female. Just leaving her alone in the corner where some plants are. That was in the evening. The next morning, I saw the male eating up some eggs at the bottom of the tank and the female looks slim and no longer as fat. Seems to me like she has dropped her eggs again. The following day, I noticed the male and female doing an embrace twice but no eggs fell. From this I know that the female is devoid of eggs and decided to end the spawning process which failed.

Not sure why the female is dropping eggs like that. Happened twice already. It may seem that the female might be a dud when it comes to breeding. Grossly disappointed!

In my frustration, I put in another female in the breeding tank. But both of them fought and shortly, the female was running away from the male like crazy and turned all pale, breathing heavily. I have since removed her as well and will wait for another 2/3 weeks before trying to breed them again.

Not sure what went wrong. But I won't give up.

Marcus

[Dr Hsu]

Marcus,

If you only saw them embracing twice and then seperated them, you could have interrupted a successful spawn. Even if the female dropped eggs, there would likely be some eggs left inside otherwise she would likely not be willing to mate. Not every embrace ends up with eggs being laid, especially the early embraces. You may not end up with a large spawn but you could have had a successful small spawn. As long as the male's not attacking the female, you might as well leave them alone to see what happens!

Regards,

Li Chieh

"Good judgement is based on experience, and much of that is based on prior bad judgement!"
"The more I know, the more I know that there is more that I don't know!"

[imported_n/a]

Sob, sob, sob! What an idiot I am. I'd be most happy with just 10 fries and now, the opportunity is gone.

Thanks Dr. Hsu for the enlightenment. A lesson's learned today.

Best regards,

Marcus

[Myron Tay]

Marcus

That's the spirit. Heard that there are great reds at Straits Aquarium (31, Seletar West Farmway 1). You might want to check it out!

[Myron Tay]

Currently working on following lines:

Thai X Hybrid (Straits + Leng Lim + Foo Hong)
Hybrid (Straits + Leng Lim) X Hybrid (Straits + Leng Lim)

First line is good in finnage, working on the colour.
Second line is good in colour, working on the finnage.

What about the rest of you?

[Myron Tay]

Currently working on following lines:

Thai X Hybrid (Straits + Leng Lim + Foo Hong)
Hybrid (Straits + Leng Lim) X Hybrid (Straits + Leng Lim)

First line is good in finnage, working on the colour.
Second line is good in colour, working on the finnage.

What about the rest of you?

[Foo Hong]

Myron, I need my semi-totoro red back! pls call me 98316908...buay tah han liao.

[Foo Hong]

Myron, I need my semi-totoro red back! pls call me 98316908...buay tah han liao.

[Myron Tay]

Have PMed you.

[Myron Tay]

Have PMed you.

[Myron Tay]

So, no one else doing extended reds besides Chris, Foo Hong and me?

[Myron Tay]

So, no one else doing extended reds besides Chris, Foo Hong and me?

[Foo Hong]

Myron, did u ask the Thai guy if that red male carried yellow?

[Foo Hong]

Myron, did u ask the Thai guy if that red male carried yellow?

[Samuel Phan]

For Reds ... I am jinxed.

[Samuel Phan]

For Reds ... I am jinxed.

[Myron Tay]

Do not know. Will check with him and get back to you.

quote:Originally posted by Foo Hong

Myron, did u ask the Thai guy if that red male carried yellow?

[Myron Tay]

Do not know. Will check with him and get back to you.

quote:Originally posted by Foo Hong

Myron, did u ask the Thai guy if that red male carried yellow?

[Chris Yew]

Shhhh! My Red have juz spawned on last week Thursday (16 Jan 2003) and it's 5 days old!

[Sebas]

oh nooo......with myron posting so many ext red photos have also made my hands go ichy! i am also attempting to spawn the pair of ext reds i bought from foohong....hope this werks out.

[Foo Hong]

I am also breeding reds big time, intend to do about 6 spawns.....shld have an interesting gathering in Apr when all bring fishes.

[Myron Tay]

Welcome to the gang Sebas. So now we have the following doing reds:

Foo Hong
Jonathan
Alvin Ho
Dennis Tan
Chris Yew
Sebas
Myron

Any more?

quote:Originally posted by Sebas

oh nooo......with myron posting so many ext red photos have also made my hands go ichy! i am also attempting to spawn the pair of ext reds i bought from foohong....hope this werks out.

[derrick kuah]

yes , i m also in red,never like them before until i saw saichon ,s red. i have 4 pairs spawning at the moment. first spawn already 4 weeks old, can see very red fries in box(stroform), have another few spawn ranging from 1-3 weeks old.have to consult all those sinfus when they come gethering at my house.fred also has some spawns, one totoro and some saichon ,i think.

[Chris Yew]

Still couldn't get better luck in Red. All die at 1 week old. Will try again. Imagine almost 2yrs trying.

[Sebas]

Eggs are out. Experimental spawn. Anyone willing to adopt in the later stages?

[Chris Yew]

Adopt in terms of fertilising the eggs for the male? LOL! Other than that I guess I'm will to adopt a pair.[eb]

quote:Originally posted by Sebas

Eggs are out. Experimental spawn. Anyone willing to adopt in the later stages?

[kennho]

How come so many spawn extended red and noone talking about blue. Other than blue mask, how come no extended blue one ?

[Chris Yew]

Becoz Dr.Gene Lucas did not use the term Extended Blue, haha. He used the term Extended Red (Er) to represent the red pigment covering the whole body over the normally 'black' or dark body.

[Sebas]

quote:Originally posted by Sebas

Eggs are out. Experimental spawn. Anyone willing to adopt in the later stages?


Flop!, see wrongly! Female still full of eggs.[bm]
Maybe they will do it tomorrow.

[Toh Chen Han]

Chris, can I clarify? Was the term 'ext red' created by Lucas? I've always taken the term to have the meaning you ascribed to it (i.e. red on the whole fish). But on and off I hear the term ext red used to describe the TONE of red on the fish (i.e. the brighter reds). Any basis for this usage?

Wouldn't it be more useful to use other descriptors such as 'chilly red', 'maroon' etc to describe the tone, and restrict 'ext red' as a descriptor for betta which are red from tip to tip?

Cheers.

[Myron Tay]

Coz the blue strain has been perfected, though I personally would like to see more blue mask HMs.

quote:Originally posted by kennho

How come so many spawn extended red and noone talking about blue. Other than blue mask, how come no extended blue one ?

[Myron Tay]

Yes Chen Han. That was the intention when Dr Lucas first coined the term. But as you know, over zealous marketers (on Aquabid esp.) has misused the term "extended red". So we should use the term to describe the gene that causes the fish to have red spread over all its body and the extended red fish as one that has red all over. Thanks.

quote:Originally posted by tohchenhan

Chris, can I clarify? Was the term 'ext red' created by Lucas? I've always taken the term to have the meaning you ascribed to it (i.e. red on the whole fish). But on and off I hear the term ext red used to describe the TONE of red on the fish (i.e. the brighter reds). Any basis for this usage?

Wouldn't it be more useful to use other descriptors such as 'chilly red', 'maroon' etc to describe the tone, and restrict 'ext red' as a descriptor for betta which are red from tip to tip?

Cheers.

[kennho]

So extended red must be

red all over, no blue wash
no white tips at ventral
no transparent portion ie butterfly pattern
no black edge at each scale

tio bo ? Where you guys read up all these genetic info one ? I can't even find in the web.

Myron, blue mask hm ? Haven't see one yet.

[Myron Tay]

No, just red all over, with minimal irrid (major fault).

Have seen a blue mask HM / SD before on aquabid.

quote:Originally posted by kennho

So extended red must be

red all over, no blue wash
no white tips at ventral
no transparent portion ie butterfly pattern
no black edge at each scale

tio bo ? Where you guys read up all these genetic info one ? I can't even find in the web.

Myron, blue mask hm ? Haven't see one yet.

[Toh Chen Han]

THanks Myron. Are white ventral tips and black edges on scales major faults? Would those faults disqualify a fish from being an ext red?

[Myron Tay]

Black edges on scales is a very minor fault and white ventral tip is a minor fault (IBC standards) I believe. Anyone else can verify?

quote:Originally posted by tohchenhan

THanks Myron. Are white ventral tips and black edges on scales major faults? Would those faults disqualify a fish from being an ext red?

[Foo Hong]

black scales easily recur, so does white tips. whether major or minor the do cos some points deducted

[Chris Yew]

No more Male Red for me - all die. Left back this Sarawut's female;
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/photoalbum/Chris%20Yew/RedF1.jpg

Shit, how to spawn her?

[fg]

[Foo Hong]

Can we combine this RED thread with the other one.

[Chris Yew]

You can't combine 2 red thread.

[Myron Tay]

Note the finnage on the even the females in the Sarawut line....

quote:Originally posted by Chris Yew

No more Male Red for me - all die. Left back this Sarawut's female;

Shit, how to spawn her?

[fg]

[Foo Hong]

problem is it looks like MG geno...kekeke

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

Note the finnage on the even the females in the Sarawut line....

quote:Originally posted by Chris Yew

No more Male Red for me - all die. Left back this Sarawut's female;

Shit, how to spawn her?

[fg]

[derrick kuah]

chris , i buy your female or alternatively , i load your a "saichon" male.jusat let me know what you have in mind.

[Chris Yew]

Derrick, I loan you my female and after spawn give me back some pairs will do. If the female die, let it be. I really have no luck doing Red.[dt]

quote:Originally posted by derrick kuah

chris , i buy your female or alternatively , i load your a "saichon" male.jusat let me know what you have in mind.

[Foo Hong]

Guys this female will pass on a lot of irids to its fries. better breed with a 'clean' red....blonde or whatever u call it.

Even so, I expect a lot of irids still appearing in its F1.

[Foo Hong]

this female will pass on a lot of irids to its babies, need to pair with a very clean male, blonde or whatever u call it.

[derrick kuah]

ok ,chris , give her during the visit. i have a nos of saichon red spawns now(between 2-5weeks), take your picks when you are here. thanks and regards Derrick++w

[Chris Yew]

Hi Derrick,

It's fine with me. But my female has been spawned once so the caudal fin is a bit nibbed. Anyway, I will leave it with you to spawn coz I think you got better Red luck than me.



quote:Originally posted by derrick kuah

ok ,chris , give her during the visit. i have a nos of saichon red spawns now(between 2-5weeks), take your picks when you are here. thanks and regards Derrick++w

[Chris Yew]

Pass on irrid to it's babies is fine, as long as not VD or AIDS.:D

quote:Originally posted by Foo Hong

this female will pass on a lot of irids to its babies, need to pair with a very clean male, blonde or whatever u call it.

[Foo Hong]

Chris u need to visit waterloo street temple , get some flowers to bath and rid the bad luck.

Shld also chk the fengshui around yr bettas.

quote:Originally posted by Chris Yew

Hi Derrick,

It's fine with me. But my female has been spawned once so the caudal fin is a bit nibbed. Anyway, I will leave it with you to spawn coz I think you got better Red luck than me.



quote:Originally posted by derrick kuah

ok ,chris , give her during the visit. i have a nos of saichon red spawns now(between 2-5weeks), take your picks when you are here. thanks and regards Derrick++w

[Chris Yew]

Well, probably can buy this guy female to spawn (from Malaysia MBC);
32 RAYS FEMALE

http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/groups/malaysianbettaclub/180+degree+32+rays+female/she+can+spread+over+180.jpg?bcvlbW.AOvmKFdHp

[Myron Tay]

Chris

Kuah Buo Leh...

[Chris Yew]

But I can see it leh - must wait a bit lah. Or you can go to the photo section in Yahoo MBC.

If your browser shows a blank box, move your cursor over it and right click and click on the Show Picture.

[Myron Tay]

Finally got to see it on Yahoo MBC.

Personal View: The number of rays would be good to support an OverHM. As I am one who advocate that OverHM might be overdoing it a little, I believe that I would stick to a 16-ray HM. 32-rays is a little too much for me. What say the rest?

[Toh Chen Han]

I hear quite a lot that the slow developers often turn out to be the best fish. This is certainly true in my sadly limited experience. What about the rest? Foo Hong any thoughts on this?

[Dr Hsu]

Yes, usually the fastest growing, potential looking fish turns out not as nice (or even downright disappointing) as the ones you select 2-3 weeks down the road...

[Toh Chen Han]

Myron, I visited ur BCS gallery to check out the pics of Sarawut's fish but only saw 3 photos there, and only one of which seemed to be Sarawut's. Have I gone up the wrong tree?

[Foo Hong]

Yes....to quite an extend but in my current steel melano spawn, the best young male is quite a big fishie [eb]. Actually it is more bcos [ from my own observation ] that the early developers fin out first, in so doing cosing the ray branching to be differed so u end up with a longer than desirable tail. hence not so nice in the end cos the dude looks like a peacock.....[eb] What u want is a tail like a turkey, shorter n fat body [^]. There are also late developers that look like shit. but yes so far I had more good fishie from the middle lot.

In fact I am also study external factors that could slow the fin development, so as to further raise the percentage of HM in a spawn. Nutrition is one thing I am studying but no conclusion yet. The other is water/space/PH etc...... and I do believe it does have some effect altho the line need to be genetically good as well. To proof the point, most of my generation are taller than our parents, who went thru the WWII period......makes sense?:D

There is some interesting preliminary observations that I cant conclude now..... Need to study further. One bloody Thai I know claims he might have accidentally found a way to get more HMs, but is unwilling to discuss. I suspect he did one of the above things I mentioned above correctly......


quote:Originally posted by tohchenhan

I hear quite a lot that the slow developers often turn out to be the best fish. This is certainly true in my sadly limited experience. What about the rest? Foo Hong any thoughts on this?

[Myron Tay]

I thought I was the only one. If the doctor can overlook the best ones, I guess I am in good company. :D

Chen Han, I have PMed you.

On the issue of the best fish in the spawn, I guess you can not second-guess God. It does pay however to give proper nutrition (balanced diet) and a good environment overall. It is just the definition of good environment! I am beginning to think that it is actually better to leave them in the community planted tank a little longer (with algae and all), though you run the risk of torn fins.

quote:Originally posted by Dr Hsu

Yes, usually the fastest growing, potential looking fish turns out not as nice (or even downright disappointing) as the ones you select 2-3 weeks down the road...

[Toh Chen Han]

Maybe our observations can be explained statistically. If we plot a graph with the range of developers (slow - medium - fast) represented by the X-axis, and the number of fish represented by the Y-axis, we might get something of a bell shaped curve - indicating that the majority of fish fall in this middle-of-the-road category of medium developers.

If this is so then it is most probable that the best fish also falls in this largest category.

Just speculation....on the fundamental assumption that the rate of growth of betta in any given spawn is roughly normally distributed.

[Foo Hong]

Statisticians claimed that under NORMAL CONDITIONS, a population will exhibit a NORMAL DISTRIBUTION. So what is normal leh in bettas?

[Sebas]

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwbettasd&1046578134

hows this fish myron?

[Myron Tay]

I would say "Go for it Sebas!".
For this fish, you would need to work on the irids on the body and fins, as well as to ensure that the black scales do not show so prominantly. You would also make sure that the caudal fin should extend to touch the base of the anal fin.
Those are exactly the same things I am working on. If you compare the fish to the one I have above, you would note that the one above has less irids on the body and fins, though it loses out on the caudal spread. I am also hoping that my fish's anal fin would not grow any longer so that the caudal can catch up.

[Toh Chen Han]

Hi, I tried to post an image here, hope it works. Basically a sarawut red I saw on auction not too long ago (last week or two). It wasn't too expensive...what do you think of it? I personally feel it would be easier to work on this fish than the bettaboy one because it seems to have less of an irid problem. But then the pic is a bit dark so it's hard to say for sure.

Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif sarawutred.jpg (http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/tohchenhan/200322692353_sarawutred.jpg)
51.21?KB

[Myron Tay]

Go for it, Chen Han!
Actually, they are probably from the same lines (looks really similar). The breeders in Thailand share their fishes around. :D

[Toh Chen Han]

Nah, just for discussion purposes. Not planning any acquisitions in the near future. =) Ur Sarawut red is better than the one I posted.

[derrick kuah]

Chris, your Sarawat female ,just spawned with my saichon red.must be quite a "load" for her, damn big egges and lot of them(500+).nearly give up , in the tank for a week already,thought of taking her out today, finally ,she did .good luck , will keep you post. thanks and regards Derrick++

[Sebas]

me too, have to limit to 1-2 lines. But i like yours in the avatar, a beauty!

[Myron Tay]

Wah so much pressure on me to produce the same type of fishes from Sarawut's line.
I am afraid what I have is only what is pictured earlier. :(

[derrick kuah]

Myron, no problem , i think you can do it , keep it up ...i love you...r+don,t forget , i m very ,very greedy , everythings also want ...including ..your nextime.ha ..ha..ha.++

[Myron Tay]

Hi all,

Just noticed something that would like to ask the shifus. You know, I mentioned that there is something in the community planted tank that produces the best extended reds. I have observed that the jarred fishes start exhibiting ray bending. By bending I do not mean bend in such a way that the tail becomes round, but that if you see the tail from the side flat (pancake) view, it is not has flat as a pancake. The edges of the tail of the jarred fishes start to curl away from the central straight line, so that the tail is no longer flat. This does not happen to the unjarred fishes, only to the jarred fishes.

Have started to add tetra blackwater extract to see if it helps matters. In any case, will bring the fish to the exhibition to show you guys what I mean.

For those who have experienced something similar, any help rendered in this area would be deeply appreciated.

[Foo Hong]

Yes I do have some unflatties sometimes but never bothered to find out why...just culled them.

How many pieces are affected, co if the majority is then maybe its NEWATER? kekekeke

I also then to begin to suspect that 'good water' yr fish will look one hell-of-a better. I am experimenting[actually[ bcos I have lesser adults now..ha!] using 'pond-like' water, that is aged with a teeny weeny bit of ketapan and some JM in a 2 feet outdoor tank. Realised that a 100% water change even will not shock the fish, and the bloody males are very healthy and agrressive. Perhaps the JM has reduced the ammonia or nitrates or phosphates and the K softens and lowers the PH to the 'right level'. BTW the water did at times teem with aquatic critters, which become extra food for bettas :)

[Myron Tay]

What's JM?

Monitoring the situation to see if it affects all the jarred fishes. Have ruled out genetics as it does not seem to affect those in the community planted tanks. Could be newater as I have not changed the water in the community tanks for more than a month.

Maybe it just happens to extended reds. Maybe not. So have to find a solution to the problem, otherwise it would affect all other spawns.

[Foo Hong]

JM = Java moss !

How abt food? what feed and which type making up how mnay % of their diet?

[Chris Yew]

That's great Derrick! 500+ fries, my spawn are never more than 300! Keep me posted, thank you.
[bh]

quote:Originally posted by derrick kuah

Chris, your Sarawat female ,just spawned with my saichon red.must be quite a "load" for her, damn big egges and lot of them(500+).nearly give up , in the tank for a week already,thought of taking her out today, finally ,she did .good luck , will keep you post. thanks and regards Derrick++

[Foo Hong]

Chris, u , I and Myron can get ready our nets and bag and go down to derrick's place one day to scoop some fries so that it MAKES LIVE EASIER for him! Derrick must make sure the fries are large enuf to eat worms cos daphnias very expensive! [eb]

quote:Originally posted by Chris Yew

That's great Derrick! 500+ fries, my spawn are never more than 300! Keep me posted, thank you.
[bh]

quote:Originally posted by derrick kuah

Chris, your Sarawat female ,just spawned with my saichon red.must be quite a "load" for her, damn big egges and lot of them(500+).nearly give up , in the tank for a week already,thought of taking her out today, finally ,she did .good luck , will keep you post. thanks and regards Derrick++

[kennho]

quote:Originally posted by Chris Yew

That's great Derrick! 500+ fries, my spawn are never more than 300! Keep me posted, thank you.
[bh]


Dun knock yr head against the wall leh. Older doesn't mean weaker. Derrick still strong ! :D

erh ... get me along to scoop also hor. erh .. coming road show should be big enough liao.

[Myron Tay]

Ruled out food, because I am feeding those in the community tanks the same food I am giving those in individual jars.

quote:Originally posted by Foo Hong

How abt food? what feed and which type making up how mnay % of their diet?

[Foo Hong]

And what jar? size, dimensions, freq of water change, material of jar, carded or none, etc

[Myron Tay]

Some Nisso, some 6X6X6 glass tanks. Water is changed once in two - three days. Carded. With no plants initially (though have added in java fern to see if the situation improves).

[derrick kuah]

Ask my partner, Chgris , if he is ok then its ok with me . ha ..ha .ha..
myron , i have same problem with my half totoro laced(blue) , now the top caudal rays , most broken. sam awyong, told me , the fishes flared too aggressively when jarred . should isolated them with katapan water for a while(2 weeks).i m doing it now , will post after...

[Chris Yew]

Me no problem. My red is far always - [ag]

Now I'm waiting for the pair of Red I got from Derrick to grow big. I'm training them [bx] everyday!:D

quote:Originally posted by derrick kuah

Ask my partner, Chgris , if he is ok then its ok with me . ha ..ha .ha..
myron , i have same problem with my half totoro laced(blue) , now the top caudal rays , most broken. sam awyong, told me , the fishes flared too aggressively when jarred . should isolated them with katapan water for a while(2 weeks).i m doing it now , will post after...

[Myron Tay]

Just to clarify that the top caudal rays are not broken. Instead they are bending away so that the tail is no longer flat.

quote:Originally posted by derrick kuah
myron , i have same problem with my half totoro laced(blue) , now the top caudal rays , most broken. sam awyong, told me , the fishes flared too aggressively when jarred . should isolated them with katapan water for a while(2 weeks).i m doing it now , will post after...

[Foo Hong]

Myron talking unflat fins, derrick talking rays snapping...
woow chicken n duck talk [xx(]

Derrick rays snapping too much flaring, something to avoid. I also suspect the rays are weak due to less than satisfactory diet or unbalanced diet.

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

Just to clarify that the top caudal rays are not broken. Instead they are bending away so that the tail is no longer flat.

quote:Originally posted by derrick kuah
myron , i have same problem with my half totoro laced(blue) , now the top caudal rays , most broken. sam awyong, told me , the fishes flared too aggressively when jarred . should isolated them with katapan water for a while(2 weeks).i m doing it now , will post after...

[Myron Tay]

As mentioned before in another thread, agree with Foo Hong that caudal rays snapping could be due to a deficiency in the diet.

quote:Originally posted by Foo Hong
Derrick rays snapping too much flaring, something to avoid. I also suspect the rays are weak due to less than satisfactory diet or unbalanced diet.

[Foo Hong]

MAybe for fin bending too. Care to share what diet they are getting?

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

As mentioned before in another thread, agree with Foo Hong that caudal rays snapping could be due to a deficiency in the diet.

quote:Originally posted by Foo Hong
Derrick rays snapping too much flaring, something to avoid. I also suspect the rays are weak due to less than satisfactory diet or unbalanced diet.

[Myron Tay]

Frozen bloodworms about 50%
Frozen brine shrimp (more expensive lah) about 30%
Mimozi dried food (for vitamins and other trace elements) about 20%

quote:Originally posted by Foo Hong

MAybe for fin bending too. Care to share what diet they are getting?

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

As mentioned before in another thread, agree with Foo Hong that caudal rays snapping could be due to a deficiency in the diet.

quote:Originally posted by Foo Hong
Derrick rays snapping too much flaring, something to avoid. I also suspect the rays are weak due to less than satisfactory diet or unbalanced diet.

[Foo Hong]

Sherlock Holmes' next question.

Hows your feeding quantity....did u pump them hard?

Also, maybe I missed it, how many 170 or 180 deltas so far...males i meant.....out of the 150 or so?

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

Frozen bloodworms about 50%
Frozen brine shrimp (more expensive lah) about 30%
Mimozi dried food (for vitamins and other trace elements) about 20%

quote:Originally posted by Foo Hong

MAybe for fin bending too. Care to share what diet they are getting?

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

As mentioned before in another thread, agree with Foo Hong that caudal rays snapping could be due to a deficiency in the diet.

quote:Originally posted by Foo Hong
Derrick rays snapping too much flaring, something to avoid. I also suspect the rays are weak due to less than satisfactory diet or unbalanced diet.

[Myron Tay]

Feed them twice a day on weekdays and thrice a day on some weekends. I have no HMs to date, about 5 or so with 160-170 spread and about 10 with outcurling rays.

[Foo Hong]

So far sounds OK....

I know...the feng shui ....is not quite good! Better do something before its too late.

[Myron Tay]

Think some of the corrective measures (blackwater and adding plants) I have taken is taking an effect as the situation seems to have stablised (at least not worsening). Will keep all posted about further developments.

[derrick kuah]

hi , i think mine ,is more on my under feeding them. they are all very thin. Sam told me onece but never relised it. during the open house , all sinfus told me same thing(i learnt from a guy , told me not to feed too much on tb or they will get drosy). so after , i started to feed my fishes heavily and i think they actually flared better, many started to show hms already. thanks guys especially sam awyong...

[Myron Tay]

Any one has any ideas on how to remove irids from extended reds, without losing the intensity of the original red at the same time?

[Toh Chen Han]

Some fellas told me to cross to cambodian or yellow line.

[Foo Hong]

so the fin curls are due to your excessive use of aquaplus Myron?

[Dr Hsu]

quote:Originally posted by tohchenhan

Some fellas told me to cross to cambodian or yellow line.

I have heard the same re Cambodians but not yellow (yellows still can have the irids). I suppose you will need true cambodians as well (hard to get!)

Keep this question - can ask Dr Lucas when he comes!

[Myron Tay]

It appears to be so. Have used the higher dosage to remove chloromine (10ml per 35 litres) which has given me problems. Now am sticking to the lower (10ml per 70 litres) and continuing to monitor the situation. In the meantime, two of my best fish have been placed in the community tank (with seperators). :D

Have also started to age the water first before putting in the A-plus.

quote:Originally posted by Foo Hong

so the fin curls are due to your excessive use of aquaplus Myron?

[jonpoh]

Wonder anyone have observed that after using APlus... the water can turn turbid.. At first I thought it was the food I fed.....
Then I tried an experiment by putting Aplus into water that contains nothing..( no fish and plants )
the water turns turbid too... i wonder what actually happened? Suspect it is due to bacteria growth?
Any idea?

regards
JOnathan Poh

[Chris Yew]

It's a bit cloudy, I would said.

quote:Originally posted by jonpoh

Wonder anyone have observed that after using APlus... the water can turn turbid.. At first I thought it was the food I fed.....
Then I tried an experiment by putting Aplus into water that contains nothing..( no fish and plants )
the water turns turbid too... i wonder what actually happened? Suspect it is due to bacteria growth?
Any idea?

regards
JOnathan Poh

[Foo Hong]

throw away aquaplus :D. Use sera lah...found it quite good.

Chris how to get from Sera directly so as to get a discount for bulk orders....so that my growing reds do no suffer the same fate as Myron? [eb]

[Chris Yew]

Check it out here;
http://www.acro-asia.com/

Contact Terry (boss) or CK Yeo.

quote:Originally posted by Foo Hong

throw away aquaplus :D. Use sera lah...found it quite good.

Chris how to get from Sera directly so as to get a discount for bulk orders....so that my growing reds do no suffer the same fate as Myron? [eb]

[jonpoh]

.. BUT...aquaPlus supposed to be a patented product.. Secret recipe leh.

[kennho]

a few things to note :
1. these are foreign products
2. most of the dosage does not suit the local water condition
3. read the product label for correct "combination" or go online to find out for parent company.

[jonpoh]

In your own opinion.. What is best for Singapore water condition then?

[kennho]

dose and test water. the only way to be sure and also understand how much you need to dose compare to the printed text on the product. just a couple of test will tell the diff.

[Ong Ginyew]

but sometimes those printed text on the product is not realli accurate....
some LFS told me.....

[jonpoh]

I normally don't add water conditioner by (v/v) ratio, unless I'm using it for big tanks. Just to make sure that it is not overdosed or underdosed. ( Harder to estimate )
What I do is that I buy conditioners that are non-toxic to fishes at high conc and also to ensure that they don't contain any aluminium sulphate.

Regards

[Chris Yew]

Guess we are rather off topic on the water conditioner. Let's get back to Breeding Ext. Red guys.

[Foo Hong]

Ok back to reds.

heh spawn #1 growing up and just jarred 10 males for fun to see. mostly ext red only a few camb reds.

Spawn #2 [ same parents ] which is double the size of #1.wooow !
Looks liek a lot of camb reds ! :( [bt]

Luckily didnt spawn a #3 [^] with same pair

Actually, spawn #3 is a different pairing altogether - half-totoro male x Myron's female. Ai! got DT leh [be]. But Myron think this spawn will have quite a bit of irids even on fins when they grow up, as the father is similar to yr Sarawut male. Maybe they were once twins? :D[cnf][B)]

By the way back to spawn #1, the 'normal' males are picking up colour and very red...woow, like chilli padi[ber]. Think patrick's male did passed on the red colour quite well. But cant see any HMs yet:([not sure if there lll be any :D] 1.25 inch and bloody aggresive [bx]and actve [^]. the spawn also throw those stupid semi-runts...think got at least 15 to 20 pieces.....[33][bh][33][ass][33]

[derrick kuah]

hey big brother, foohong,
Jarred some of my red (very red like chilly red), last week, found today some clowns, the top caudal curve type. What should i do?...he he... should i follow your exp..... if not can,t tahan so many.. please reply fast.. ha ha.. will bring some to show (meeting).thanks++

[Myron Tay]

Bring some good females for me? Pretty please?[tx]

quote:Originally posted by derrick kuah

hey big brother, foohong,
Jarred some of my red (very red like chilly red), last week, found today some clowns, the top caudal curve type. What should i do?...he he... should i follow your exp..... if not can,t tahan so many.. please reply fast.. ha ha.. will bring some to show (meeting).thanks++

[derrick kuah]

myronb . ok will bring tomorrow.

[derrick kuah]

myronb . ok will bring tomorrow.

[Myron Tay]

I would be unable to make it for the committee meeting tomorrow. Sunday can? :D

quote:Originally posted by derrick kuah

myronb . ok will bring tomorrow.

[Myron Tay]

I would be unable to make it for the committee meeting tomorrow. Sunday can? :D

quote:Originally posted by derrick kuah

myronb . ok will bring tomorrow.

[derrick kuah]

ok , no problem , i will bring for you. thanks .

[derrick kuah]

ok , no problem , i will bring for you. thanks .

[Foo Hong]

I will take leave on Friday and come to see in yr house [eb]

[Foo Hong]

I will take leave on Friday and come to see in yr house [eb]

[derrick kuah]

hey , just nice, edwin and myself ,will mbe loading the racks and stuff from my whs on friday.ha ..ha So you are welcome..

[derrick kuah]

hey , just nice, edwin and myself ,will mbe loading the racks and stuff from my whs on friday.ha ..ha So you are welcome..

[Myron Tay]

I am working on improving my red lines by crossing with other red lines. Have had great progress in the form, but my difficulty is in the colour. You can read about my story here:
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=656
and
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1513

Interesting cross you have there, one which I would not have to guts to try myself. The opaque has a irridescence base, so I would expect the spawn to have quite a bit of that. Nevertheless, do keep us posted about the results of your cross.

quote:Originally posted by Mohammad Taufiq

myron, i'm working red also! i cross male ext red with opaque female!! wad are u working on? red&red?

[Myron Tay]

Yup. Had a lot of problems with egg-eating reds from the previous lines with US roots. But I have infused my lines with Sarawut's lines (with excellent parents), with fathers that provide great parental care and females which actually help to pick-up the eggs without eating them! It has made some difference.

I have had two spawns from different pairs (of Sarawut X US descent) and one father was an egg eater but the other one, while having a very small bubble nest and lots of eggs falling out of the nest, managed to produce a spawn of about 300 fries.

Here is another thing that you cannot get just by looking at a fish in a store and certainly something to look out for in choosing breeders.

quote:Originally posted by Wong Wei Yong

Heard many reasons why male eats the eggs :

1) Some of the eggs are unfertilized so the male eats them.
2) The male was not conditioned properly.
3) Poor conditions.

Anyone knows the reason why they eat the eggs? I noticed that in all my Ext Red spawnings, everytime the males eat the eggs. I have conditioned them prior to spawning. I do not have this problem with males of other colours. Anyone breeding reds with this problem too?

[Myron Tay]

Yup. Had a lot of problems with egg-eating reds from the previous lines with US roots. But I have infused my lines with Sarawut's lines (with excellent parents), with fathers that provide great parental care and females which actually help to pick-up the eggs without eating them! It has made some difference.

I have had two spawns from different pairs (of Sarawut X US descent) and one father was an egg eater but the other one, while having a very small bubble nest and lots of eggs falling out of the nest, managed to produce a spawn of about 300 fries.

Here is another thing that you cannot get just by looking at a fish in a store and certainly something to look out for in choosing breeders.

quote:Originally posted by Wong Wei Yong

Heard many reasons why male eats the eggs :

1) Some of the eggs are unfertilized so the male eats them.
2) The male was not conditioned properly.
3) Poor conditions.

Anyone knows the reason why they eat the eggs? I noticed that in all my Ext Red spawnings, everytime the males eat the eggs. I have conditioned them prior to spawning. I do not have this problem with males of other colours. Anyone breeding reds with this problem too?

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

Hi all,

Just noticed something that would like to ask the shifus. You know, I mentioned that there is something in the community planted tank that produces the best extended reds. I have observed that the jarred fishes start exhibiting ray bending. By bending I do not mean bend in such a way that the tail becomes round, but that if you see the tail from the side flat (pancake) view, it is not has flat as a pancake. The edges of the tail of the jarred fishes start to curl away from the central straight line, so that the tail is no longer flat. This does not happen to the unjarred fishes, only to the jarred fishes.

Have started to add tetra blackwater extract to see if it helps matters. In any case, will bring the fish to the exhibition to show you guys what I mean.

For those who have experienced something similar, any help rendered in this area would be deeply appreciated.


Just to share with all that I have solved the problem encountered above. It was resolved when I replicated the exact conditions in the grow-out tank. I added in the missing component: replaced java fern with java moss (the grow-out tank only had java moss). No more problems after that! Will leave the scientific rationale to the experts.

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by Alex Lim

Hi all,

i would like to asked how the white ventrals can be ridded of?

Well, I believe that the only way to do this is to selectively breed the other colours out of the fish (since I believe that the white resides on the topmost layers of a betta). This male should be bred with fish that do not have white ventrals, with successive crossings chosen based on those offspring which display less and less white on the ventrals.

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by Alex Lim

Hi all,

i would like to asked how the white ventrals can be ridded of?

Well, I believe that the only way to do this is to selectively breed the other colours out of the fish (since I believe that the white resides on the topmost layers of a betta). This male should be bred with fish that do not have white ventrals, with successive crossings chosen based on those offspring which display less and less white on the ventrals.

[Alex Lim]

Myron,

actually wanted to ask with reference to you but thought it would be better if the question is open to all. :D

ok, do you mean that the line should be out-crossed to bettas with min or no white ventrals? i do not know if i am mistaken but will the colours of ventrals be genetically inherited by later generations of the same line? i.e if i carry on from F1-FX [cnf]

[Alex Lim]

Myron,

actually wanted to ask with reference to you but thought it would be better if the question is open to all. :D

ok, do you mean that the line should be out-crossed to bettas with min or no white ventrals? i do not know if i am mistaken but will the colours of ventrals be genetically inherited by later generations of the same line? i.e if i carry on from F1-FX [cnf]

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by Alex Lim

Myron,

ok, do you mean that the line should be out-crossed to bettas with min or no white ventrals?

Need not be an outcrossing, just selective breeding of the ones with the least white on the ventrals. Having said that, outcrossing such fish to one with no white ventrals is probably the faster route.

quote:
i do not know if i am mistaken but will the colours of ventrals be genetically inherited by later generations of the same line? i.e if i carry on from F1-FX [cnf]


Not very sure since I am dealing with such fish for the first time, but I suspect that it would be passed on to successive generations, much like the dreaded small amount of blue at the top corner of the anal fin which touches the caudal on most extended red bettas I have seen.

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by Alex Lim

Myron,

ok, do you mean that the line should be out-crossed to bettas with min or no white ventrals?

Need not be an outcrossing, just selective breeding of the ones with the least white on the ventrals. Having said that, outcrossing such fish to one with no white ventrals is probably the faster route.

quote:
i do not know if i am mistaken but will the colours of ventrals be genetically inherited by later generations of the same line? i.e if i carry on from F1-FX [cnf]


Not very sure since I am dealing with such fish for the first time, but I suspect that it would be passed on to successive generations, much like the dreaded small amount of blue at the top corner of the anal fin which touches the caudal on most extended red bettas I have seen.

[Alex Lim]

thanks for clearing my doubts or i'll keep [bh][bh][bh] :)

[Alex Lim]

thanks for clearing my doubts or i'll keep [bh][bh][bh] :)

[Myron Tay]

Need a hand in selecting your breeding halfmoon pairs? I would refer you to the following threads:

Red Halfmoons
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1743

General Advice on Choosing Halfmoon Breeders
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1618

Removing Black from Red Line
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1178

Removing Irridescence from Red Line
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1177

[Myron Tay]

Need a hand in selecting your breeding halfmoon pairs? I would refer you to the following threads:

Red Halfmoons
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1743

General Advice on Choosing Halfmoon Breeders
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1618

Removing Black from Red Line
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1178

Removing Irridescence from Red Line
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1177

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by Lyon Goh

quote:Originally posted by derrick kuah

HI Guys ,
RE: red . I observed that red fish alway gives problems:
1) lasy father, like sex but lazy with the upkeeping of nest.
2)most of the time , will kill the female if taken out last.(can,t leave her in the tanks for multiple spawns).
3)most fries will die (with or without the father). ONly get(usually around 50 -60% survival rate).
I do leave the father with the spawn even for red fish. BUt whether the farther is there or not , no different , have to jar them young , around 10-12 weeks.They will go at each other when they get to understand their surroudings.

I find reds like to eat fry.
My marble father don't eat as much fry as my reds. The red also whacked the female till NO MORE CAUDAL FINS. Derrick and Lyon

I have had similar problems with my first few red pairs mainly from US bred lines. However, I believe that I have had less problems with breeding once I introduced Sarawut's line and took good care of my fish (read: pampered them with rich, balanced diet and loads of space). Still have some difficulty with my latest spawns, but my last two were sired by the same father that took care of both broods until they were free-swimming and a mother that helped to put the eggs back into the bubblenest. Life is good...

[Myron Tay]

In line with the information on inbreeding on the following thread: http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=87

I would request that we list those on this forum who are breeding extended red halfmoons:

gtkang
Victoria Parnell
KY Foong
Derrick Kuah
Fred Tan
Kheng Lim (Lim Kheng Lip)
Charles Lim
Alex Lim
Silas Khor
Jim Sonnier
Bernard Law
Ronnie Lau
Simon Tan
Eugene
Myron Tay

Apologies if I left anyone out. Do feel free to add to the list.

[Myron Tay]

In line with the information on inbreeding on the following thread: http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=87

I would request that we list those on this forum who are breeding extended red halfmoons:

gtkang
Victoria Parnell
KY Foong
Derrick Kuah
Fred Tan
Kheng Lim (Lim Kheng Lip)
Charles Lim
Alex Lim
Silas Khor
Jim Sonnier
Bernard Law
Ronnie Lau
Simon Tan
Eugene
Myron Tay

Apologies if I left anyone out. Do feel free to add to the list.

[Eugene]

heheh....

I'm in....

[Eugene]

heheh....

I'm in....

[Lyon Goh]

Will be in after I get some cash.
Meanwhile, doing Ext Red in plakats

[Lyon Goh]

Will be in after I get some cash.
Meanwhile, doing Ext Red in plakats

[VictoriaParnell]

Got a batch growing out right now that look particularly good. You should see Bond and I with our noses pressed against the glass. *LOL*

We're also getting some good extended red CTs from Joty, so we'll see how that goes.

[VictoriaParnell]

Got a batch growing out right now that look particularly good. You should see Bond and I with our noses pressed against the glass. *LOL*

We're also getting some good extended red CTs from Joty, so we'll see how that goes.

[Alex Lim]

Vic,

come on.. you got to show us your pics~ are those of your inferno reds??? hungry for pics.. [dr]

[Alex Lim]

Vic,

come on.. you got to show us your pics~ are those of your inferno reds??? hungry for pics.. [dr]

[VictoriaParnell]

Steady bro, still too little for my cheap digital camera! :D

Here's our new CTs, brought to you by Grovic. LOL

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/VictoriaParnell/2004426599_superredct1.jpg

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/VictoriaParnell/20044265955_superredct2.jpg

[VictoriaParnell]

Steady bro, still too little for my cheap digital camera! :D

Here's our new CTs, brought to you by Grovic. LOL

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/VictoriaParnell/2004426599_superredct1.jpg

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/VictoriaParnell/20044265955_superredct2.jpg

[Myron Tay]

Victoria

Where are the halfmoons? :D

[Myron Tay]

Victoria

Where are the halfmoons? :D

[VictoriaParnell]

*LOL*

Show me yours and I'll show you mine. ;)

[VictoriaParnell]

*LOL*

Show me yours and I'll show you mine. ;)

[Alex Lim]

quote:Originally posted by VictoriaParnell

Steady bro, still too little for my cheap digital camera! :D

Here's our new CTs, brought to you by Grovic. LOLin the chill of night, i suddenly feel very hot on seeing the pics.. wooooo.. *whistle* need some sunglasses [8D]

[Alex Lim]

quote:Originally posted by VictoriaParnell

Steady bro, still too little for my cheap digital camera! :D

Here's our new CTs, brought to you by Grovic. LOLin the chill of night, i suddenly feel very hot on seeing the pics.. wooooo.. *whistle* need some sunglasses [8D]

[VictoriaParnell]

Just took this pic today, and the first one of you to snicker at my photography skills is going to get [bt]

This is spawn brother of the red I posted on the other thread. He was just taken from a spawning tank; you can see where his fins had previous damage and grew back slightly askew; this fish has proven impossible to spawn. He always builds nests fine, but he has a temper and has almost killed three of my females now. Even when they approach under the nest with head-down, he attacks to kill. (see Myron, I am staying on the subject of this thread [be])

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/VictoriaParnell/2004432559_red2.jpg

[VictoriaParnell]

Just took this pic today, and the first one of you to snicker at my photography skills is going to get [bt]

This is spawn brother of the red I posted on the other thread. He was just taken from a spawning tank; you can see where his fins had previous damage and grew back slightly askew; this fish has proven impossible to spawn. He always builds nests fine, but he has a temper and has almost killed three of my females now. Even when they approach under the nest with head-down, he attacks to kill. (see Myron, I am staying on the subject of this thread [be])

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/VictoriaParnell/2004432559_red2.jpg

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by VictoriaParnell

*LOL*

Show me yours and I'll show you mine. ;)
I have shown mine. Waiting for yours...:D

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

In line with the information on inbreeding on the following thread: http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=87

I would request that we list those on this forum who are breeding extended red halfmoons:

gtkang
Victoria Parnell
KY Foong
Derrick Kuah
Fred Tan
Kheng Lim (Lim Kheng Lip)
Charles Lim
Alex Lim
Silas Khor
Jim Sonnier
Bernard Law
Ronnie Lau
Simon Tan
Eugene
Myron Tay

Apologies if I left anyone out. Do feel free to add to the list.
Anyone else?

[VictoriaParnell]

Where?

[cnf]

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

quote:Originally posted by VictoriaParnell

*LOL*

Show me yours and I'll show you mine. ;)
I have shown mine. Waiting for yours...:D

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by VictoriaParnell

Where?

[cnf]
[bt]

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=656&whichpage=7

[VictoriaParnell]

I thought you specified HM, Myron! [be]

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by VictoriaParnell

I thought you specified HM, Myron! [be]
So I did Victoria. So any superdeltas to show? :D

[VictoriaParnell]

Not yet, dear. You are the RED KING of Singapore.

But you might have some competition soon. [ber]

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by VictoriaParnell

Not yet, dear.When then? :D :D

[VictoriaParnell]

Here:

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/VictoriaParnell/200441423341_reddy3.jpg

Usual problem of pale body color, but the branching is good, the extended dorsal is a nice touch, and the color does extend to the ends of the fins. **Edited to add** This is a very young fish; color may deepen as it matures.

[Myron Tay]

Victoria

I like the colour on your line of fish. Any outcrossing you have done recently?

[Myron Tay]

Breeders of red halfmoons on this forum

gtkang
Victoria Parnell
KY Foong
Derrick Kuah
Fred Tan
Kheng Lim
Charles Lim
Alex Lim
Silas Khor
Jim Sonnier
Bernard Law
Ronnie Lau
Simon Tan
Eugene
Tevin Lee
Myron Tay

[VictoriaParnell]

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

Victoria

I like the colour on your line of fish. Any outcrossing you have done recently?


Actually, that is an outcross...Dan Young's, and Peter's.

[Eugene]

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

Breeders of red halfmoons on this forum

gtkang
Victoria Parnell
KY Foong
Derrick Kuah
Fred Tan
Kheng Lim
Charles Lim
Alex Lim
Silas Khor
Jim Sonnier
Bernard Law
Ronnie Lau
Simon Tan
Eugene
Tevin Lee
Myron Tay



Hi Myron,

Think Svein does reds too...
How about Markus?

Cheerio!
Euge

[Myron Tay]

I would direct all further discussions to the following thread: http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=656