What is considered a Plakat?

[Chris Yew]

As the word Plakat - it simply means Thai Fighting Fish right? But that gives no meaning or classfication as to what is considered a plakat. Plakat that is considered as a TRUE PLAKAT in a competition. Also what is considered as not a plakat? Sounds confusing, well I guess it's time to classify what we want to be considered as a plakat as more and more hobbyists are trying to cross breed 'different species' like imbellis x plakat, CT x plakat, HM x plakat, etc... but first of all before all these cross breed, we must defined what is a TRUE PLAKAT.

Any inputs?

[Foo Hong]

A broader term to cover all these is perhaps 'short fin'?

There are a lot of o/c to deltas and b/c to plakats.....so can be really confusing, and subjectable to challenges by those 'plakat experts'. To me, I under stand plakats as fighting stocks, which are nromally short fin.

[Foo Hong]

A broader term to cover all these is perhaps 'short fin'?

There are a lot of o/c to deltas and b/c to plakats.....so can be really confusing, and subjectable to challenges by those 'plakat experts'. To me, I under stand plakats as fighting stocks, which are nromally short fin.

[Chris Yew]

Short fin is no good to be used in competition and classifying of plakat though short fin is part of plakat. Short fin will include Wild as well and other mouth brooders (Wild too). But that does not classify plakat and describe what we want plakat to be.

[Chris Yew]

Short fin is no good to be used in competition and classifying of plakat though short fin is part of plakat. Short fin will include Wild as well and other mouth brooders (Wild too). But that does not classify plakat and describe what we want plakat to be.

[Samuel Phan]

I think it is difficult to really classify what is now a true plakat. Maybe those $1 that you find in LFS can be called the "True" plakats as most of the show-plakats have already been out-crossed to deltas to acheive the HM caudal spread and the straight edges.

What I think in the current show-plakat scene is that pple are trying to acheive HM finnage with straght caudal edges while remaining short.

IMHO, any short fins with the plakat-like body can be classified as plakats. i.e broad and stout body. Fishes with long caudal and long anal, crown extensions should be dis-qualified.

SO it does not matter whether the fishes have been out-crossed to Imbellis, CT or HM ... as long as it retains the plakat characteristics ... they are in.

Regarding CT traits ... we might want to look into it again ... this is becuase CT actually was derived from plakats ... so by nature ... plakats do occasionally comes with slight ray extensions. But I supposed this we can leave to the judges to decide.

[Samuel Phan]

I think it is difficult to really classify what is now a true plakat. Maybe those $1 that you find in LFS can be called the "True" plakats as most of the show-plakats have already been out-crossed to deltas to acheive the HM caudal spread and the straight edges.

What I think in the current show-plakat scene is that pple are trying to acheive HM finnage with straght caudal edges while remaining short.

IMHO, any short fins with the plakat-like body can be classified as plakats. i.e broad and stout body. Fishes with long caudal and long anal, crown extensions should be dis-qualified.

SO it does not matter whether the fishes have been out-crossed to Imbellis, CT or HM ... as long as it retains the plakat characteristics ... they are in.

Regarding CT traits ... we might want to look into it again ... this is becuase CT actually was derived from plakats ... so by nature ... plakats do occasionally comes with slight ray extensions. But I supposed this we can leave to the judges to decide.

[kennho]

Pla Kat. What's the real meaning, definition then ?

Pla means 'fish' and Kat 'to bite', so Pla Kat directly means 'Biting Fish'.

[kennho]

Pla Kat. What's the real meaning, definition then ?

Pla means 'fish' and Kat 'to bite', so Pla Kat directly means 'Biting Fish'.

[Samuel Phan]

Any short-fin fishes that do not fit into the description of a plakat
e.g.
- Long anal fin
- Long caudal fin
- Long CT extensions
- Slender body
- Narrow peducel
will have to come under other categories.

[Samuel Phan]

Any short-fin fishes that do not fit into the description of a plakat
e.g.
- Long anal fin
- Long caudal fin
- Long CT extensions
- Slender body
- Narrow peducel
will have to come under other categories.

[Myron Tay]

I read this as another call for standards. Chris, is your intention to start a discussion which could be fed back to Atison on plakat standards for ABC?

[Myron Tay]

I read this as another call for standards. Chris, is your intention to start a discussion which could be fed back to Atison on plakat standards for ABC?

[Samuel Phan]

But if we are to stick to this definition of "Biting Fish", then plakat category will mean fish fighting?

Thus, I think what most important is to clarify on the traits of a plakat and format the judging guidelines from there.


quote:Originally posted by kennho

Pla Kat. What's the real meaning, definition then ?

Pla means 'fish' and Kat 'to bite', so Pla Kat directly means 'Biting Fish'.

[Samuel Phan]

But if we are to stick to this definition of "Biting Fish", then plakat category will mean fish fighting?

Thus, I think what most important is to clarify on the traits of a plakat and format the judging guidelines from there.


quote:Originally posted by kennho

Pla Kat. What's the real meaning, definition then ?

Pla means 'fish' and Kat 'to bite', so Pla Kat directly means 'Biting Fish'.

[Chris Yew]

OK, let's get this done visually. Which of the following you think is a Plakat or is not a Plakat? Next question : Which is your IDEAL PLAKAT that you have in mind (color aside)?

Picture 1;
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/images/Comphotos/NBCE1-1.jpg

Picture 2;
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/images/misc1.jpg

Picture 3;
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/images/misc2.jpg

Picture 4;
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/images/misc4.jpg

Picture 5;
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/images/misc3.jpg

Picture 6;
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/images/misc5.jpg

Picture 7;
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/images/misc6.jpg

[Chris Yew]

OK, let's get this done visually. Which of the following you think is a Plakat or is not a Plakat? Next question : Which is your IDEAL PLAKAT that you have in mind (color aside)?

Picture 1;
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/images/Comphotos/NBCE1-1.jpg

Picture 2;
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/images/misc1.jpg

Picture 3;
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/images/misc2.jpg

Picture 4;
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/images/misc4.jpg

Picture 5;
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/images/misc3.jpg

Picture 6;
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/images/misc5.jpg

Picture 7;
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/images/misc6.jpg

[Myron Tay]

I would consider the ideal plakat with a perfect D halfmoon form, with anal and dorsal fins overlapping the caudal fins. It should also have perfect solid colour, with no wash (for solid colour categories). In short, all the requirements of the usual halfmoon form, except with different proportions, to account for the shorter fins.

[Myron Tay]

I would consider the ideal plakat with a perfect D halfmoon form, with anal and dorsal fins overlapping the caudal fins. It should also have perfect solid colour, with no wash (for solid colour categories). In short, all the requirements of the usual halfmoon form, except with different proportions, to account for the shorter fins.

[Chris Yew]

But are you able to point out which is a plakat and which is not from the above pictures? Also which ONE of the above pictures resembles the most to your IDEAL PLAKAT?

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

I would consider the ideal plakat with a perfect D halfmoon form, with anal and dorsal fins overlapping the caudal fins. It should also have perfect solid colour, with no wash (for solid colour categories). In short, all the requirements of the usual halfmoon form, except with different proportions, to account for the shorter fins.

[Chris Yew]

But are you able to point out which is a plakat and which is not from the above pictures? Also which ONE of the above pictures resembles the most to your IDEAL PLAKAT?

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

I would consider the ideal plakat with a perfect D halfmoon form, with anal and dorsal fins overlapping the caudal fins. It should also have perfect solid colour, with no wash (for solid colour categories). In short, all the requirements of the usual halfmoon form, except with different proportions, to account for the shorter fins.

[Samuel Phan]

IMHO ... only pic 4 is not considered as a plakat.
Reason because of the slim body, longer than usual anal fin and out-of proportion finnages.

[Samuel Phan]

IMHO ... only pic 4 is not considered as a plakat.
Reason because of the slim body, longer than usual anal fin and out-of proportion finnages.

[Sebas]

My ideal plakat = Photo 5
Long ventrals/Longer extension of anal fin/Peach-Shaped tail/Broad head/Pointed yet broad mouth

[Sebas]

My ideal plakat = Photo 5
Long ventrals/Longer extension of anal fin/Peach-Shaped tail/Broad head/Pointed yet broad mouth

[Samuel Phan]

Is a peach-shaped tail a traits to breed for?
Or is it a personal preference?

As for the longer extension of the anal ... can I assume is the pointed edge?
While the rest of the anal fin runs pretty much parallel to the curvature of the lower body?
A good example will be Pic1 although the body form is lacking.

Agree with Sebas on the Broad Head/Broad Mouth traits of a plakat.

[Samuel Phan]

Is a peach-shaped tail a traits to breed for?
Or is it a personal preference?

As for the longer extension of the anal ... can I assume is the pointed edge?
While the rest of the anal fin runs pretty much parallel to the curvature of the lower body?
A good example will be Pic1 although the body form is lacking.

Agree with Sebas on the Broad Head/Broad Mouth traits of a plakat.

[Sebas]

Ya,longer extension of anal fin refers to the pointed egde, it will be better if its longer and goes finer/thinner as it goes down, forming this pointed eagle claw like shape.

I am not sure if peach shaped tail is a good trait or not, but with no denial, this trait gives a plakat that very distinct and ancient look doesnt it.

Also to add, a plakat should be active, hyperactive! As compared to our HMs etc, they have a smaller caudal, and in overall more streamlined. Their form should be of the highest level. Their gill covers should also be visually thick and sturdy.

[Sebas]

Ya,longer extension of anal fin refers to the pointed egde, it will be better if its longer and goes finer/thinner as it goes down, forming this pointed eagle claw like shape.

I am not sure if peach shaped tail is a good trait or not, but with no denial, this trait gives a plakat that very distinct and ancient look doesnt it.

Also to add, a plakat should be active, hyperactive! As compared to our HMs etc, they have a smaller caudal, and in overall more streamlined. Their form should be of the highest level. Their gill covers should also be visually thick and sturdy.

[kennho]

Same as Sebas, I take Potion No. 5.
No. 4 looks like a cross, a definitely out.

That's the question I have in mind as well when I browsing thru most of the site with Plakat. Most of my plakat has that spade look caudal tail, only a few are rounded.

Anal fin with extended edge like male louhan (kekeke), instead of pointing down like in pic 4 and 7. Probably 3x longer comparing the 1st ray near ventral to the last ray.

As for ventral, no 7 looks too broad.

[kennho]

Same as Sebas, I take Potion No. 5.
No. 4 looks like a cross, a definitely out.

That's the question I have in mind as well when I browsing thru most of the site with Plakat. Most of my plakat has that spade look caudal tail, only a few are rounded.

Anal fin with extended edge like male louhan (kekeke), instead of pointing down like in pic 4 and 7. Probably 3x longer comparing the 1st ray near ventral to the last ray.

As for ventral, no 7 looks too broad.

[Samuel Phan]

My Perfect Plakat:
Body of: 5, 6
Caudal of: 7 (But with further improvement on the edges ... sorry to Juilian for the comment)
Anal of: 3 (but possibly with longer extension)
Dorsal of: 5.

[Samuel Phan]

My Perfect Plakat:
Body of: 5, 6
Caudal of: 7 (But with further improvement on the edges ... sorry to Juilian for the comment)
Anal of: 3 (but possibly with longer extension)
Dorsal of: 5.

[Samuel Phan]

They are my own fish ... but the yellow has too fat a body for plakat IMO ... despite coming in 3rd at the NBC. Dorsal is good ... but is it too large for a plakat? Anal also reminds of a delta form.

The Pastel IMO is nice ... with improvements on caudal required ... other than that ... all criteria of a plakat met.

[Samuel Phan]

They are my own fish ... but the yellow has too fat a body for plakat IMO ... despite coming in 3rd at the NBC. Dorsal is good ... but is it too large for a plakat? Anal also reminds of a delta form.

The Pastel IMO is nice ... with improvements on caudal required ... other than that ... all criteria of a plakat met.

[Chris Yew]

Hi Samuel,

Sorry but I've to say that GOOD White plakat is very difficult to find in terms to shape and finnage (not just color). This is my IDEAL White plakat from Wasan site;
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/images/msic7.jpg

[Chris Yew]

Hi Samuel,

Sorry but I've to say that GOOD White plakat is very difficult to find in terms to shape and finnage (not just color). This is my IDEAL White plakat from Wasan site;
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/images/msic7.jpg

[Samuel Phan]

But the Wasan's fish seems to have a yellow tint. Other than that .. the fish is nice.
But the caudal can have some improvement.

[Samuel Phan]

But the Wasan's fish seems to have a yellow tint. Other than that .. the fish is nice.
But the caudal can have some improvement.

[Chris Yew]

Yes, it's a bit yellowish but color aside. I think the shape, form and finnage is better than the rest. The purpose of this thread is to find the agreed upon standard plakat.

[Chris Yew]

Yes, it's a bit yellowish but color aside. I think the shape, form and finnage is better than the rest. The purpose of this thread is to find the agreed upon standard plakat.

[Chris Yew]

Hi Samuel,
Your Yellow color is great but I suspect it contains a DT gene. Personally I feel that a DT plakat looks awlful.

quote:Originally posted by Samuel Phan

They are my own fish ... but the yellow has too fat a body for plakat IMO ... despite coming in 3rd at the NBC. Dorsal is good ... but is it too large for a plakat? Anal also reminds of a delta form.

The Pastel IMO is nice ... with improvements on caudal required ... other than that ... all criteria of a plakat met.

[Chris Yew]

Hi Samuel,
Your Yellow color is great but I suspect it contains a DT gene. Personally I feel that a DT plakat looks awlful.

quote:Originally posted by Samuel Phan

They are my own fish ... but the yellow has too fat a body for plakat IMO ... despite coming in 3rd at the NBC. Dorsal is good ... but is it too large for a plakat? Anal also reminds of a delta form.

The Pastel IMO is nice ... with improvements on caudal required ... other than that ... all criteria of a plakat met.

[Jonathan_Tan]

i find that a dt plakat onli looks nice if its a multi...
like those in chris's post, they look not bad to me... reason being their unique col...
i would'nt breed them but if someone was sellin them(like those in the pics) i would get them to keep in my collection...

[Jonathan_Tan]

i find that a dt plakat onli looks nice if its a multi...
like those in chris's post, they look not bad to me... reason being their unique col...
i would'nt breed them but if someone was sellin them(like those in the pics) i would get them to keep in my collection...

[Jonathan_Tan]

but of cos the price cannot be too high...

[Jonathan_Tan]

but of cos the price cannot be too high...

[Chris Yew]

Those DT plakat in the website pictures are usually the better ones. In real, most DT plakat are easily deformed in the sense that their body are more curved downwards and I would say rather distorted form.

[Chris Yew]

Those DT plakat in the website pictures are usually the better ones. In real, most DT plakat are easily deformed in the sense that their body are more curved downwards and I would say rather distorted form.

[Foo Hong]

Wah the DT plakat colours are really cool. Like a red marble and MG marble.......

why havent we breed it into HM....ha!

[Foo Hong]

Wah the DT plakat colours are really cool. Like a red marble and MG marble.......

why havent we breed it into HM....ha!

[Chris Yew]

Most fancied plakat are breed from the Betta Splendens species.

[Chris Yew]

Most fancied plakat are breed from the Betta Splendens species.

[Samuel Phan]

Chris,

You are right that they do contain some DT genes in them ... which explains the dorsal.

And true enough ... plakats in DTs looks pretty awful and is probably an acquired taste. And normally their lopes are not even and normally have deformed spins.

In my spawn of 400 ... I only managed to find 2 DTs that can probably be kept ... even then ... they are kinda "bonsai"

With Best Regards,
Sam

quote:Originally posted by Chris Yew

Hi Samuel,
Your Yellow color is great but I suspect it contains a DT gene. See the similar shape of your Yellow and those DT plakat;

Personally I feel that a DT plakat looks awlful.

[Samuel Phan]

Chris,

You are right that they do contain some DT genes in them ... which explains the dorsal.

And true enough ... plakats in DTs looks pretty awful and is probably an acquired taste. And normally their lopes are not even and normally have deformed spins.

In my spawn of 400 ... I only managed to find 2 DTs that can probably be kept ... even then ... they are kinda "bonsai"

With Best Regards,
Sam

quote:Originally posted by Chris Yew

Hi Samuel,
Your Yellow color is great but I suspect it contains a DT gene. See the similar shape of your Yellow and those DT plakat;

Personally I feel that a DT plakat looks awlful.

[Sebas]

In my opinion, Plakats and DTs are 2 terms that should never be linked together. HAHAHA, now i look like a black roasted pig, hope to see u guys at edwin's place!

[Sebas]

In my opinion, Plakats and DTs are 2 terms that should never be linked together. HAHAHA, now i look like a black roasted pig, hope to see u guys at edwin's place!

[Chris Yew]

Ha, seems like more interesting discussions are going on at GHMBBC and MBC forum on the plakat topic, GOOD!

There are some suggestions to name those HM plakat as HM short fin betta splendens which I think it's more appropriate than juz HM plakat. Then there will be CT short fin betta splendens and the Plakat will be left to be a true plakat...still have yet to derive out what is a true show plakat, haha.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/halfmoonbetta/message/677

[Chris Yew]

Ha, seems like more interesting discussions are going on at GHMBBC and MBC forum on the plakat topic, GOOD!

There are some suggestions to name those HM plakat as HM short fin betta splendens which I think it's more appropriate than juz HM plakat. Then there will be CT short fin betta splendens and the Plakat will be left to be a true plakat...still have yet to derive out what is a true show plakat, haha.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/halfmoonbetta/message/677

[ben fox wong]

http://www.plakatthai.com/plakatthai.html

hi, i found this Thai webpage which lists down their plakats into 4 types. i personally like #2. looks stout & solid.

[ben fox wong]

http://www.plakatthai.com/plakatthai.html

hi, i found this Thai webpage which lists down their plakats into 4 types. i personally like #2. looks stout & solid.

[Sebas]

Nice find ben. I like type 3 personally

[Sebas]

Nice find ben. I like type 3 personally

[Jonathan_Tan]

to me all plakats also nice except the HM types...
find the anal too long...
IMHO,
i think that we should'nt try to get longtail characteristics into plakats...
they are 2 diff types of 2 different standards...

[Jonathan_Tan]

to me all plakats also nice except the HM types...
find the anal too long...
IMHO,
i think that we should'nt try to get longtail characteristics into plakats...
they are 2 diff types of 2 different standards...

[Ong Ginyew]

are HM plakets considered as Hybrids?

[Sebas]

not sure if you can consider them hybrids, but my new brood of fishes are very streamline in terms of body shape. Most of my previous plakats turn out to have 180 spread with sufficient exercise, so i dont feel that HM plakats are that rare/hooohaaa, juz a matter of proper care and maintainence.

[Samuel Phan]

A HM plakat need not have long anal fins ...
Those with long anal fins are probably the first generation cross to HMs.

quote:Originally posted by Jonathan_Tan

to me all plakats also nice except the HM types...
find the anal too long...
IMHO,
i think that we should'nt try to get longtail characteristics into plakats...
they are 2 diff types of 2 different standards...

[Sebas]

Yes,
even if you look it in another way, not only HM plakats or outcrosses to deltas will have long anal fins. In fact, we should not exclude plakats with 180 spreads as a different type of plakat. Unless one is able to provide the standard criteria for a show/competition quality plakat, we should not conclude that short tail splendens with bigger
finnage volume be termed as 'not-plakats'.

Let us revive this thread with more discussions

[Samuel Phan]

There are many pple out there doing plakat X delta aiming to acheive a HM plakat. Along the way there are some by-products that are marketed either as a short tail delta or a long tail plakat.

IMHO ... a nice HM plakat should retain all the rest of its plakat traits e.g. short anal, dorsal and caudal. Only the caudal should display the HM finnage and preferrbly with straight edges.

So any fishes with exceptionally long anal is not desirable. But I will reserve my comments for the dorsal ... because a improved dorsal might look better on a plakat.

[dennistancheesim]

with all the talk...can someone show me what is a true Plakat??
me sure like to see one lar....

[Lim Aik Seng]

ya i gt a ques to ask
but is the different between a figther plaket and a LFS plaket

[dennistancheesim]

quote:Originally posted by Lim Aik Seng

ya i gt a ques to ask
but is the different between a figther plaket and a LFS plaket


think is hard lar...cozs they all look the same to me....
and anyone can tell you that its a good fighter...but howe to you know its really one unless you try it right??[tx]

[Toh Chen Han]

u got to look for those hardcore betta fighter then maybe u can learn. i think not many of them in this forum. =p this type of activity not many ppl will openly profess their knowledge.

i seem to remember reading a bit about fighters on atison's website. maybe u can start your research there. u can always try emailing those thai breeders also...sometimes they are willing to give u some simple tips. good luck

[Chris Yew]

Yes, for those who wish to learn more about fighters should try to search from those Thai website.

As a reminder, BCS do not encourage such activities and posting regarding fighters. Pls do not continue to post such thread regarding fighters - thank you.

[dennistancheesim]

quote:Originally posted by Chris Yew

Yes, for those who wish to learn more about fighters should try to search from those Thai website.

As a reminder, BCS do not encourage such activities and posting regarding fighters. Pls do not continue to post such thread regarding fighters - thank you.



[bh][bh][bh]Thanks you[bh][bh][bt]

[dennistancheesim]

quote:Originally posted by tohchenhan

u got to look for those hardcore betta fighter then maybe u can learn. i think not many of them in this forum. =p this type of activity not many ppl will openly profess their knowledge.

i seem to remember reading a bit about fighters on atison's website. maybe u can start your research there. u can always try emailing those thai breeders also...sometimes they are willing to give u some simple tips. good luck


think you better PM me[puf][puf][tx]

[dennistancheesim]

quote:Originally posted by Chris Yew

Yes, for those who wish to learn more about fighters should try to search from those Thai website.

As a reminder, BCS do not encourage such activities and posting regarding fighters. Pls do not continue to post such thread regarding fighters - thank you.


sorry chris...one

more before i leave...so to sell them here is ok...but not talk...right??


Thanks

[Chris Yew]

Regardless of sell or buy or discuss, I'll be closing all thread regarding fighters on Monday 21 Apr 2003.

[dennistancheesim]

quote:Originally posted by Chris Yew

Regardless of sell or buy or discuss, I'll be closing all thread regarding fighters on Monday 21 Apr 2003.
..

[puf][tx]ok chris...