Colour vz. Finnage/Form - which to choose?

[Foo Hong]

In case anyone is interest in talking!

[benjamin wong]

erm one thing i notice also in spawns usually the fella
with the best color does not have the best finnage...~~~[V]
we already have a really cool HM guide from mr tklee on HM finnage
wouldn't it be cool too if we have color guide how the actual
color variation should be like.just a suggestion[B)]

[benjamin wong]

erm one thing i notice also in spawns usually the fella
with the best color does not have the best finnage...~~~[V]
we already have a really cool HM guide from mr tklee on HM finnage
wouldn't it be cool too if we have color guide how the actual
color variation should be like.just a suggestion[B)]

[Foo Hong]

Actually, Breeding for finnage is not too difficult as far as the caudal angle is concerned. What I find most challenging is breeding for proportionality, and breeding for colour if yr existing line isnt that clean.

I try to avoid using fishes with red tints, even if very slightly , as they will cause havoc down the line...even if he has a 180 caudal. I may however consider using him if he is truly outstanding in form n finnage,..eg. over-180 caudal and well defined ray branching is all fins.

[Foo Hong]

Actually, Breeding for finnage is not too difficult as far as the caudal angle is concerned. What I find most challenging is breeding for proportionality, and breeding for colour if yr existing line isnt that clean.

I try to avoid using fishes with red tints, even if very slightly , as they will cause havoc down the line...even if he has a 180 caudal. I may however consider using him if he is truly outstanding in form n finnage,..eg. over-180 caudal and well defined ray branching is all fins.

[Jung]

Let

[Jung]

Let

[Foo Hong]

agree that colour must be brought to the highest level, which some neighbouring countries have not fully achieve. We must breed both good colour n finnage, dont compromise.

Blues/greens - well agree there are many reasonable fishes you can buy these days off the shelevs or internet. Personally, there are many out there which I dont really like. Some of these fishes look great when sold [usually at 2 n 3 months] but diminish there onwards. We all know the way fishes are raised have an effect on how they appear. In Thailand I visited a breeder who breds great looking irids but he told me all his fishes are 'primed up' in his sister fish farm 2 hrs drive from bangkok, then brought into the city[mkt or aquabid or etc] and sold within 2 weeks, cos if not they lose their sparkle. He showed me over-halfmoons which carried 4 rays in teh caudal in blue and black. Only 2 inch including the tail. They were able to achieve the angulation somehow bcos i noticed the spacing between the ray sets are pretty wide[webbing!] However, he also told me that if they are not sold in 2 weeks, the tail will round off and slowly they will aproach the 'delta', ie sold at their best time.[ thais have learnt alot!]

There is nothing like breeding a good fish out of yr own hands and sweat. The feeling is different. My objective is to breed line that will continue to look good at 5 or 6 months old. Incidentally, if one is not careful, a line can deteriorate in one generation, which happened to me once. So keeping a good line going is in itself very satisfying!

[Foo Hong]

agree that colour must be brought to the highest level, which some neighbouring countries have not fully achieve. We must breed both good colour n finnage, dont compromise.

Blues/greens - well agree there are many reasonable fishes you can buy these days off the shelevs or internet. Personally, there are many out there which I dont really like. Some of these fishes look great when sold [usually at 2 n 3 months] but diminish there onwards. We all know the way fishes are raised have an effect on how they appear. In Thailand I visited a breeder who breds great looking irids but he told me all his fishes are 'primed up' in his sister fish farm 2 hrs drive from bangkok, then brought into the city[mkt or aquabid or etc] and sold within 2 weeks, cos if not they lose their sparkle. He showed me over-halfmoons which carried 4 rays in teh caudal in blue and black. Only 2 inch including the tail. They were able to achieve the angulation somehow bcos i noticed the spacing between the ray sets are pretty wide[webbing!] However, he also told me that if they are not sold in 2 weeks, the tail will round off and slowly they will aproach the 'delta', ie sold at their best time.[ thais have learnt alot!]

There is nothing like breeding a good fish out of yr own hands and sweat. The feeling is different. My objective is to breed line that will continue to look good at 5 or 6 months old. Incidentally, if one is not careful, a line can deteriorate in one generation, which happened to me once. So keeping a good line going is in itself very satisfying!

[Dr Hsu]

Jung is absolutely correct! Finnage is achievable in quite a few colors and there is no "fun" in perfecting the almost perfect! Purity of color, IMO, is difficult to achieve, and more difficult to achieve in combination with good finnage. What we need to do is to concentrate on the difficult colors to achieve the finnage AND color in those lines. The first person to get a true HM line of MG will become well known....and wealthy!

[Dr Hsu]

Jung is absolutely correct! Finnage is achievable in quite a few colors and there is no "fun" in perfecting the almost perfect! Purity of color, IMO, is difficult to achieve, and more difficult to achieve in combination with good finnage. What we need to do is to concentrate on the difficult colors to achieve the finnage AND color in those lines. The first person to get a true HM line of MG will become well known....and wealthy!

[Foo Hong]

Oh...yes HM MG.....failed twice..hahaha

Good oh Roy Cheok is still sitting on my "2003 recommended MG crossing" pair.....not sure when he is gonna put to action. Hoyyy Mr Roy.....do you want to wait until the fish looks like grandmother/grandfather then you start breeding? I am coming after you with my whip!!!

[Foo Hong]

Oh...yes HM MG.....failed twice..hahaha

Good oh Roy Cheok is still sitting on my "2003 recommended MG crossing" pair.....not sure when he is gonna put to action. Hoyyy Mr Roy.....do you want to wait until the fish looks like grandmother/grandfather then you start breeding? I am coming after you with my whip!!!

[Jung]

Was thinking and planning this since beginning of this year:

Spent a period of time earlier intensively working a yellow line out of Thai stock. Now its quality is quite ok (if I may say so myself...haha). Concentrated so much on yellow, cos I planned to use it to improve MG, red and orange lines (in addition to the yellow itself). That was the long term goal.

Now, I think with the purchase of TK's line (+ other good yellows) by our friends, maybe to share these thoughts may help other members in a little way. Now, I probably won't be the one to achieve the HMs (if ever)... heh heh...

[Jung]

Was thinking and planning this since beginning of this year:

Spent a period of time earlier intensively working a yellow line out of Thai stock. Now its quality is quite ok (if I may say so myself...haha). Concentrated so much on yellow, cos I planned to use it to improve MG, red and orange lines (in addition to the yellow itself). That was the long term goal.

Now, I think with the purchase of TK's line (+ other good yellows) by our friends, maybe to share these thoughts may help other members in a little way. Now, I probably won't be the one to achieve the HMs (if ever)... heh heh...

[Foo Hong]

Yep the Udom Yellow I saw has pretty neat form. but their colour appears kinda pinky and light for yellow.....

[Foo Hong]

Yep the Udom Yellow I saw has pretty neat form. but their colour appears kinda pinky and light for yellow.....

[Myron Tay]

Hi all. Is it possible to work on both the form and colour at the same time i.e. choose the best overall to pair off rather than choose a pair based on form and another pair based on colour?

[Myron Tay]

Hi all. Is it possible to work on both the form and colour at the same time i.e. choose the best overall to pair off rather than choose a pair based on form and another pair based on colour?

[derrick kuah]

Hi , re irees thai young hms. understand from some thai friend, they actually "cut" the caudal when it is young to shape, so that they will achieve desired hms when at very young age .but when its getting older ,the finnages will go back to its foremare self. that is why ,they have to sell within two weeks.just to prove a piont. i m doing same exp with some of my young hms. but don,t get me wrong ,i m doing it for the goods of bettas. cannot believe hms going for $10.00per pc there.jung , glad to hear ,you are working on yellow. i m breeding my yellow pairs(1st and 2 nd winners)cut both thier tails cos volume too big,to spawn(one of them kill a female ,got "horny" but cannof wrap it.maybe later date ,might need to swap some fishes with you.re: Udom yellow , tk lee yellow ois from Udom line. he bought ,a 16 rays fishes some months back(us200.00)and work from it.thanks

[derrick kuah]

Hi , re irees thai young hms. understand from some thai friend, they actually "cut" the caudal when it is young to shape, so that they will achieve desired hms when at very young age .but when its getting older ,the finnages will go back to its foremare self. that is why ,they have to sell within two weeks.just to prove a piont. i m doing same exp with some of my young hms. but don,t get me wrong ,i m doing it for the goods of bettas. cannot believe hms going for $10.00per pc there.jung , glad to hear ,you are working on yellow. i m breeding my yellow pairs(1st and 2 nd winners)cut both thier tails cos volume too big,to spawn(one of them kill a female ,got "horny" but cannof wrap it.maybe later date ,might need to swap some fishes with you.re: Udom yellow , tk lee yellow ois from Udom line. he bought ,a 16 rays fishes some months back(us200.00)and work from it.thanks

[Myron Tay]

I guess I am stating the obvious, but I have made the observation that there is a bias here in Asia for form over colour. This can be seen from the perfect form in many different types of bettas produced here, though with less fantastic results in terms of having clean colours.

[Myron Tay]

My current view is that we should work on both form and colour at the same time. It is a faster process in the long run.