Halfmoon x Plakat

[Foo Hong]

Nothing to contribute...ha!

[Sebas]

HM x Plakat........doing it
HM turquoise x Marble plakat.

[Sebas]

HM x Plakat........doing it
HM turquoise x Marble plakat.

[Foo Hong]

done, doing or will be done?

[Foo Hong]

done, doing or will be done?

[derrick kuah]

hi sebas, don,t try with male plakat(already try twice,all ended with my nephew,s aros).try with plakat female,will give you better result. have white pastel ,steel/black(f2)marbled from hmx plakat.Nnow ,have fries from f2(10days)if you want some males from f2 ,i can spare you (tail liked fan but better than vieltail(used plkat father)).those with plkat female ,give bigger volume caudal tail but still only fan type. i got the colour ,i had wanted already(liked my plakat "sanke" type),next will cross f3 to hm (white or black)

[derrick kuah]

hi sebas, don,t try with male plakat(already try twice,all ended with my nephew,s aros).try with plakat female,will give you better result. have white pastel ,steel/black(f2)marbled from hmx plakat.Nnow ,have fries from f2(10days)if you want some males from f2 ,i can spare you (tail liked fan but better than vieltail(used plkat father)).those with plkat female ,give bigger volume caudal tail but still only fan type. i got the colour ,i had wanted already(liked my plakat "sanke" type),next will cross f3 to hm (white or black)

[Foo Hong]

if some of those plakat colours can be worked into HM lines, then it would be wonderful as there will be more colours to play with

[Foo Hong]

if some of those plakat colours can be worked into HM lines, then it would be wonderful as there will be more colours to play with

[Chris Yew]

I thought that the Thais are working the HM colors into plakats instead of the other way round. Are you talking about imbellis color like those copper or gold?

[Chris Yew]

I thought that the Thais are working the HM colors into plakats instead of the other way round. Are you talking about imbellis color like those copper or gold?

[Foo Hong]

No lah. U know plakats got a lot of colours, esp those patchy marbling types. ALot are due to random breeding but say what you want they look cool.

Was at Betta Kindom and saw their few specimens with colours resembling faith's 'dreamcatchers'.

[Foo Hong]

No lah. U know plakats got a lot of colours, esp those patchy marbling types. ALot are due to random breeding but say what you want they look cool.

Was at Betta Kindom and saw their few specimens with colours resembling faith's 'dreamcatchers'.

[Samuel Phan]

Hi Derrick,

Dun be too fast to discourage Sebas here ...

I have done similar cross and the results were more encourage than what you have stated.

My results ... a small % of plakats with good finnage.
As for the rest ... poor quality deltas.

With Best Regards,
Sam

quote:Originally posted by derrick kuah

hi sebas, don,t try with male plakat(already try twice,all ended with my nephew,s aros).try with plakat female,will give you better result. have white pastel ,steel/black(f2)marbled from hmx plakat.Nnow ,have fries from f2(10days)if you want some males from f2 ,i can spare you (tail liked fan but better than vieltail(used plkat father)).those with plkat female ,give bigger volume caudal tail but still only fan type. i got the colour ,i had wanted already(liked my plakat "sanke" type),next will cross f3 to hm (white or black)

[Samuel Phan]

Hi Derrick,

Dun be too fast to discourage Sebas here ...

I have done similar cross and the results were more encourage than what you have stated.

My results ... a small % of plakats with good finnage.
As for the rest ... poor quality deltas.

With Best Regards,
Sam

quote:Originally posted by derrick kuah

hi sebas, don,t try with male plakat(already try twice,all ended with my nephew,s aros).try with plakat female,will give you better result. have white pastel ,steel/black(f2)marbled from hmx plakat.Nnow ,have fries from f2(10days)if you want some males from f2 ,i can spare you (tail liked fan but better than vieltail(used plkat father)).those with plkat female ,give bigger volume caudal tail but still only fan type. i got the colour ,i had wanted already(liked my plakat "sanke" type),next will cross f3 to hm (white or black)

[Sebas]

haha, alamak, miss this discussion these few days.
Its Doing It. Erm, maybe its more like the pair getting to do it. 4th day, not successful, will halt tonite if still the female doesnt cooperate cuz i'm leaving for thailand tomorrow morning. Derrick, its HM male x my marble female, i am hoping to get what foohong had said, marble into HM. So far, from what i have seen, the so claimed marble HMs from thailand are more white/pastel-based(looks more like pastel with serious case of washes). So i hope i can get some decent marble deltas in the F3-F5 which are more cellophane based with color patches. Oh, the only marble deltas, superdeltas i have seen on the web are from Straits and JK808's lines.

[Sebas]

haha, alamak, miss this discussion these few days.
Its Doing It. Erm, maybe its more like the pair getting to do it. 4th day, not successful, will halt tonite if still the female doesnt cooperate cuz i'm leaving for thailand tomorrow morning. Derrick, its HM male x my marble female, i am hoping to get what foohong had said, marble into HM. So far, from what i have seen, the so claimed marble HMs from thailand are more white/pastel-based(looks more like pastel with serious case of washes). So i hope i can get some decent marble deltas in the F3-F5 which are more cellophane based with color patches. Oh, the only marble deltas, superdeltas i have seen on the web are from Straits and JK808's lines.

[derrick kuah]

hi sebas, ha see you plakat pics on bcs cover(cellopane green/blue tail), i have one female same colour as your but very big , if you wanted it ,you can have it. my marbled colour(f2--f3)are from my black/white marbled,with a little cellopane illusminous tail(male),female also black and white marbled. i m breeding daughter to father(only three with good colour from same spawn). i put them in a big sytroform box(those for salmon fish), they actually spawned twice, first spawn (10days old) ,second hactched today.
sam , i m not trying to discourage him, i m trying to save his time.found most from plakat father , have long viel type tail,small percentage of fan tail(small volume),wheras from plakat mother,most have fan like tail and also having bigger volume and very small percentage of viel tail. maybe the fishes ,i had used ,are different from samuel,s type gene that is why the results are different.
what i m trying to do is ,to creat some delta having the same colour like My black/white plakat. white(opque)base with black pacthes all over the body.still need to clean the steel from them. right now only three colour(white ,blue and blacK).i will try fix the colour first then the form.thanks and regards Derrick++

[derrick kuah]

hi sebas, ha see you plakat pics on bcs cover(cellopane green/blue tail), i have one female same colour as your but very big , if you wanted it ,you can have it. my marbled colour(f2--f3)are from my black/white marbled,with a little cellopane illusminous tail(male),female also black and white marbled. i m breeding daughter to father(only three with good colour from same spawn). i put them in a big sytroform box(those for salmon fish), they actually spawned twice, first spawn (10days old) ,second hactched today.
sam , i m not trying to discourage him, i m trying to save his time.found most from plakat father , have long viel type tail,small percentage of fan tail(small volume),wheras from plakat mother,most have fan like tail and also having bigger volume and very small percentage of viel tail. maybe the fishes ,i had used ,are different from samuel,s type gene that is why the results are different.
what i m trying to do is ,to creat some delta having the same colour like My black/white plakat. white(opque)base with black pacthes all over the body.still need to clean the steel from them. right now only three colour(white ,blue and blacK).i will try fix the colour first then the form.thanks and regards Derrick++

[Sebas]

Dont worry, before putting the pair together, i am mentally prepared to get lousy results in F1 and F2. But dont worry, my marble plakat line has big caudal volume, i also dont know why. So i just hope that the great great...grandparents of my line have delta history in them.
When i cleared my fishes, i have kept a few fishes behind, including some of my females, unless something happen to them when i am in thailand, i should be able to produce another generation, keke. But if they are gone, then i may need your help, hehehe

[Sebas]

Dont worry, before putting the pair together, i am mentally prepared to get lousy results in F1 and F2. But dont worry, my marble plakat line has big caudal volume, i also dont know why. So i just hope that the great great...grandparents of my line have delta history in them.
When i cleared my fishes, i have kept a few fishes behind, including some of my females, unless something happen to them when i am in thailand, i should be able to produce another generation, keke. But if they are gone, then i may need your help, hehehe

[Sebas]

Ah, bloody pairing didnt werk out, will try again when i return, by then i will need a new experimental dark body solid color male.

[Sebas]

Ah, bloody pairing didnt werk out, will try again when i return, by then i will need a new experimental dark body solid color male.

[Samuel Phan]

Hi Derrick,

I know your intention is well lah ... :)

You are right that sometimes alot is depending on luck ...
Just happen that my pair produce a more desirable result.

Probably because the female is also not a pure delta ... how knows ...

[Samuel Phan]

Hi Derrick,

I know your intention is well lah ... :)

You are right that sometimes alot is depending on luck ...
Just happen that my pair produce a more desirable result.

Probably because the female is also not a pure delta ... how knows ...

[Myron Tay]

Going by his reply in a separate thread, looks like Sebas had a bad experience with a HM X Plakat spawn. Does anyone have similar experiences?

Suspect it is due to the weaker HM traits in the plakat lines at present. Only rarely do I see a true HM plakat.

quote:Originally posted by Sebas

HM x Plakat........doing it
HM turquoise x Marble plakat.

[derrick kuah]

:(Ya , did many hm x plakat, always get vieltail ,[bh][bt] only till f3 , finnages started to improve(big fan tail) but by f4-5, started getting straight edge but its no matter to me , i m going for colour(marbled black).Ah..sigh ,also another oipaque spawn , make mistake(with female,thought a plakat but sd),bred to my aoc opaque champ, now most vieltail but very good colour.culled most of them:D
Right now doing imbellis to delta,lots of variations.saw results of one spawn(white gold to saicho,s female)..very good jade colour and good emeral green with imbellis shin, also some straight edges fishes but.....have to wait and see results.:D[cnf][tx]

[Myron Tay]

So I suspect the market would probably pay big bucks to the fella who can develop a strong HM plakat line with good colour.

[Phil]

Hi Derrick,

Fries from your half-black plakat female crossed with FH Male Melano is about a month old now. Colours are coming out but still can't tell on finnage. Will keep youn informed in a months time.

cheers,
Phil

[Myron Tay]

Could I urge more to share on their experiences with halfmoon / plakat crosses? Phil, what was your experience?

[Myron Tay]

Any one did a halfmoon / plakat cross recently? What's the outcome?

[Myron Tay]

Any one did a halfmoon / plakat cross recently? What's the outcome?

[Alex Lim]

Myron,

just cross my second featured red female with a HM plakat. just hatched. will update in a few months time after my exams and reservist.

oh yah, she's not a HM, just a descendant from Nicol's lines. i'm not expecting a good turnout but will work further.

cheers~

[Alex Lim]

Myron,

just cross my second featured red female with a HM plakat. just hatched. will update in a few months time after my exams and reservist.

oh yah, she's not a HM, just a descendant from Nicol's lines. i'm not expecting a good turnout but will work further.

cheers~

[Eugene]

hey alex....good luck my friend!!

[Eugene]

hey alex....good luck my friend!!

[Kevin Cheng]

hey what about a cross of HM PLakat and HM ??? i heard somewhere that the HM Plakat is actually from HM line? I suppose HM Plakat is different from normal Plakat? Normal Plakat x HM will give mostly VT.

Not sure, any ideas ppl?

Love ur Avatar Eugene!!!

[sen_jie]

hi guys.. i managed to spawn a HM plakat with a double tail red female..

still dunno the results.. as this pair is 1st time parents and i am first time spawning... any advise?

fries are 2 days old. i hav remove the female but the male is still with his fries..

[sylwester]

quote:Originally posted by Kevin Cheng

hey what about a cross of HM PLakat and HM ??? i heard somewhere that the HM Plakat is actually from HM line? I suppose HM Plakat is different from normal Plakat? Normal Plakat x HM will give mostly VT.

Not sure, any ideas ppl?

I think normal plakats (any wild type bettas actually) are asymetrical (VailTail). It's difficult to see because their tails are short. asymetrical tail is acting dominant and I think it's a multiple gene trait pretty much like extended red is.

A plakat HM is a symetrical fish that has the recessive short tail trait. I think that is pretty much mendelian.

Not all HM I have seen are equally as symetrical so I guess you can selective breed HM-lines and end up with vailtails.

[Alex Lim]

Sylwester,

i concur with you.. my update on that spawn: VT lookalikes. won't advised anyone to try unnecessarily, unless it's for the long haul, meaning to work a few generations down the line.

if you really want to do it, get a HM plakat with its origins from LF line and one from LF line. should get much better results than me. a few SFs (a couple straight caudal ones) emerged from F2 of one of my red crosses. a brief history: P1 = LF, P2 = LF.

i think Victoria ever mentioned that her friend, think it was Ralph, did obtained quite good results from crosses between LF X SF. so don't be discouraged for anyone who wishes to experiment it out.

for the HM plakat, aim for tertiary branching or more. most important, must be straight HM caudal. don't go for traditional HM plakats, the ones originating from LF lines are distinct from SF lines. the former has characteristics of SF (stronger dorsal and short caudal) but the anal fins resembles those of LFs. also, the anals are not as sharp as trad. SFs. for the LF partner, go for early branching. also min. tertiary branching. straight caudals as best as possible. i have to caution that this is just a suggestion because i've not tested it out. based on my previous experience, this criteria would be a better bet.

just to share, i'm definitely no expert on this. :D

if succeed, can treat me to a cup of coffee.. :D if fail, learning experience lah.. [be]

[Alex Lim]

just for visual information.

Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif fwbettasd1096908513.jpg (http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/Alex Lim/2004106231650_fwbettasd1096908513.jpg)
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don't think this fella is a HM plakat, though many of us may think so. clue? look at the spade-like shape of caudal and sharp pointed anal fin. the male i used previously looked like this. if you used this kinda fella, your result should, in theory, end up like mine. avoid such "HM plakats". i must add on that we have different perspectives on what a HM SF is. i'm still blur also lah.. please correct me if i'm wrong.

i will take and post some pics of my SFs from that LF spawn over the weekend, if i can remember. :D and if the young punks cooperate with me.. SFs tend to be more lively. :D

[Alex Lim]

Hi all,

as mentioned earlier, here are some of the pics of the SFs in the community tank. note that these SFs possess features of both LFs and SFs (e.g anal, dorsal).

the jarred ones can be viewed at

http://www.arofanatics.com/members/limalex/alexsredsiii/

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/Alex Lim/2004109215326_IMG_1442.jpg

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/Alex Lim/2004109215338_IMG_1443.jpg

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/Alex Lim/2004109215349_IMG_1452.jpg

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/Alex Lim/2004109215359_IMG_1453.jpg

[Alex Lim]

just found nice pics to provide additional reliability in my points stated.

Victoria, borrowed your pics for better illustration. hope you don't mind.

Excerpt from BettySplendens: "This is a gorgeous true-HM extended red plakat, very good color with no irids, 4-8 ray caudal branching, color extends well over head and gill plates. Still very young, and can only improve. Will come with a top quality longfin spawn sister, so you will get both HMs in long and shortfin if you spawn them."

Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif 413a187964735151d863ec1ed8db3767.jpg (http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/Alex Lim/2004109232138_413a187964735151d863ec1ed8db3767.jpg )
7.86KB

Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif 610ab95426b367b6ce6db3ea61eb70a7.jpg (http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/Alex Lim/2004109232146_610ab95426b367b6ce6db3ea61eb70a7.jpg )
8.86KB

Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif e78bd58ac1e9051a432d42578b68d486.jpg (http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/Alex Lim/2004109232156_e78bd58ac1e9051a432d42578b68d486.jpg )
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these would preferably be what i call "HM SFs". it's really a hybrid of characteristics of LFs and SFs. and these are the kind of HM SFs i would encourage people to get in the attempt to do LFxSF crosses. if LFx traditional SF were used, the result would probably be the same, abeit using a much longer period of time.

just some thoughts, please feel free to discuss further.

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by Mark Chau

Hi Everyone,

What would happen if you cross a double tail female with a plakat? Would I get veil tails? Would it improve finnage on the plakat?
quote:Originally posted by Alex Lim

Hi Mark,

wanted to reply you in aro but keyboard having problem. you can have a glimpse of what you may get from this topic.

hope it helps.

cheerZ,
alex

[Mark Chau]

Hi Myron,

Thanks for putting the topic here. Am very interested to know wat comes out of SenJie's Spawn. The reason I asked of this was because I had heard that Plakat x DT Female would give solid HM plakats but tt was only from one source.

Wanted to breed my marble with a DT female but now too late as the stud went to breed with a suspected hm x plakat cross. Reason why I did tt was becos the female had red loss plus some mini red patches on the head.

[Myron Tay]

Mark

I would also refer you to the following thread on what you should watch out for when using DTs (especially the article highlighted by Chris):

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=608

Personally, I would stay away from DTs, due to the inherent faults. Thanks.

Myron

[Mark Chau]

Myron,

Thanks for the thread. Yes do know of the inherent faults. The good ones are very beautiful and the question comes with breeding them especially DT X DT which I've read throws out curved spines etc. Not sure if I'll ever do something like that. Even if the fish looks normal in some LFS, a closer inspection can show a little curve or a little abnormality on the dorsal front.

I have also read your remark about choosing longer bodies elsewhere as well so have taken note of that.

Cheers

[mel]

hi all,

i currently have a small spawn with parentage of ohm 16 ray green mask male and supreme gold plakat female from bettatrills which im led to believe has very good parentage and halfmoons in it. the spawn is 5 weeks old now. the colours are great but is it fair to say i will get mostly veils out of it or should there be a percentage of deltas too.

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by mel

hi all,

i currently have a small spawn with parentage of ohm 16 ray green mask male and supreme gold plakat female from bettatrills which im led to believe has very good parentage and halfmoons in it. the spawn is 5 weeks old now. the colours are great but is it fair to say i will get mostly veils out of it or should there be a percentage of deltas too.
Mel

It really depends on the lineage of the parents. If they have strong halfmoon (and by this I mean halfmoon in the strictest sense of the word) lineage, you should expect some halfmoons. Otherwise, you are unlikely to get any halfmoons.

[Myron Tay]

Continued on this thread: http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2013