"Runts" in Halfmoon lines [Archive] - Betta Club (Singapore)

Foo Hong

25th December 2002, 08:03 PM

by runts we are referring to fishes that shows signs of promising dvelopment at the very young age of becoming HMs. these usually look paler in colour, has str fin edges esp in the caudal and grows extremely slow and are weaker. Many usually do not end up in adulthood due to the weaker resistance to diseases. Do they make good breeders if able to grow up?...kekeke

However, I was told when yr line shows runts in a spawn, it is approaching HM line....soon. I leave it to yr judgement.

Foo Hong

25th December 2002, 08:03 PM

Foo Hong

10th March 2003, 12:45 AM

Jia lat liao! Got about 20 such do-dos in my red spawn of 60 odd fishes......[bh]

Dont know is it the feng-shui no gud leh. [B)]

heemeng

15th March 2003, 12:43 AM

Hi Foo Hong,

Just out of curosity, thot u gave up liao?

I didnt have many spawns under my belt; but I had got one yellow spawn with HM/runts
and yeah, they were weak and swam bad and eventually died after passing to Victor chan :D

Rgds

Foo Hong

15th March 2003, 12:54 AM

Welcome!

Since when did I give up bettas? I only tried to reduce what I have, but end up having more.

Jimmy Wu

16th March 2003, 08:45 PM

Have anyone successfully bred from runts before?

what is the results?

Toh Chen Han

16th March 2003, 10:50 PM

Hi Jimmy,

Was just talking to my friend at the roadshow. He has bred runts before. Difficult to breed and produced v small spawn. Sometimes he got all runts, and sometimes there were some normal fish (but i dunno if those were HM).

Regs

Myron Tay

23rd July 2003, 02:00 PM

My opinion is to best avoid breeding runts as it tends to produce weaker fries. Suspect they are the result of too much inbreeding. Personally, I would factor this heavily into the selection of my breeders.

Lim khing Chong

3rd August 2003, 12:34 AM

This is a little article on "mutants" aka "runts" on my website.
here is the link http://kkbetta.freeservers.com/mutants.htm
comments are welcome=>

Myron Tay

3rd August 2003, 08:44 AM

Khing Chong

Confirm that using even a "runt" fish to spawn with a "normal" fish would produce more "runts" in the next generation. Seems to be a genetic fault. Personally, I stay away from using them as breeders, although many seem to like them as fish for viewing.

Lim khing Chong

4th August 2003, 10:02 AM

Hi Myron

Have you try crossing a "runt" to a "normal" fish before? Are they from different sources or both are slibings? when having such runts in your spawn, do u have any HMs?

Myron Tay

4th August 2003, 11:15 AM

Khing Chong

I have had known some breeders who have used such to breed (with unrelated normal fish) and have produced less than expected results (no HMs). However, I have personally experienced a spawn from normal parents that have produced a fair percentage of runts as well as HMs.

I base my objections on using such as breeders simply because I believe that it introduces further weakness to the line, caused by what I suspect to be too much inbreeding.

Lim khing Chong

5th August 2003, 12:21 AM

Myron

Yes. I agree with you. When using them as breeders, the progency will less than expected. Yet ,I'll still experiment with them as and when i have free space for breeding.

I don't reckon too much inbreeding to be the reason why usch runts will appears. They have already appear in many of my spawn where parents are from different sources.Even Peter Goettner have such experience..a red male from thailand and a female germany will give runts in F1. It maybe seems like congenital deffect in HMs where we making things to go to the extreme....

Myron Tay

5th August 2003, 09:28 AM

Khing Chong

I highly suspect that the red lines are descended from only a few lines and hence most lines are very closely related already. So breeding two fishes from lines that are supposely from different far-apart sources still constitutes inbreeding! I guess the situation is even worse with red HMs, due to the even fewer genuinely separate lines! I have outcrossed my line 4 times (US, Thai and Straits lines) and still get runts!
Believe that the situation is similar in other colours.

Lim khing Chong

5th August 2003, 04:34 PM

Myron

I see your point.But did u ever wonder if runts appear because they are due to inheritance.Maybe such traits have partial dominance and will propagate true even you have outcross them? Or they are simply a congenital defect?

Myron Tay

5th August 2003, 04:44 PM

Khing Chong

Your suggestion is certainly a possibility.

quote:Originally posted by Lim khing Chong

Myron

I see your point.But did u ever wonder if runts appear because they are due to inheritance.Maybe such traits have partial dominance and will propagate true even you have outcross them? Or they are simply a congenital defect?

Myron Tay

16th April 2004, 03:08 PM

Update: There are no runts in my latest spawn.

Daniel Ong

13th June 2005, 05:08 PM

hey i'm about to do my first spawn with a pair of red halfmoons..just wondering is this runt problem very common? still new so would appreciate as much info as possible..thanks!

Myron Tay

13th June 2005, 05:19 PM

I saw one or two in my latest three spawns combined. Can't speak for other red lines.

Daniel Ong

13th June 2005, 07:02 PM

how are they best identified? is there a particular trait that defines it as a runt? thanks again yep

Alex Lim

14th June 2005, 09:20 AM

Hi Daniel,

there is no particular trait involved. they usually tend to be smaller in size, weaker in colour and some may get bullied easily by their siblings.

hope this helps. you will be able to identify runts easier as you breed further.

cheerZ

Myron Tay

14th June 2005, 09:23 AM

They are usually those that never grow up and everything about them is congested. Used to have a picture of one on this thread, but lost it due to the breakdown of this forum some months back. Anyone else can help Daniel?

Alex Lim

18th June 2005, 08:26 PM

i'll repost the picture again when i've reached home. i hope i still have the pics.

Myron Tay

19th June 2005, 08:49 AM

Here's a picture of one that I managed to dig out from my archives:

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/Myron Tay/200561984918_Runt.JPG

Daniel Ong

20th June 2005, 06:46 PM

hmm..all i can tell is that the eyes look weird..still inexperienced haha..can anyone else tell me what's wrong with this little fella here?

NgYongKeong

21st June 2005, 01:22 AM

quote:Originally posted by Daniel Ong

hmm..all i can tell is that the eyes look weird..still inexperienced haha..can anyone else tell me what's wrong with this little fella here?

small in size.. small caudal?
black banding on caudal
white edge ventral

guess the bro is a very pure and big fella..

Myron Tay

21st June 2005, 09:52 AM

Alex Lim

21st June 2005, 10:57 PM

apologies for the late posting. this runt pictured possess stunted growth as well as poor colour. see the rose tail.. one of the signs that a line's headed for a major crash.

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/Alex Lim/2005621225553_image01.jpg

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/Alex Lim/2005621225612_image03.jpg

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/Alex Lim/2005621225623_image04.jpg

Myron Tay

1st July 2005, 03:05 PM

quote:Originally posted by mel

hi there,

i was just wondering if other people have had this experience.

out of the last 2 spawns i have had, i have got a runt each time who after 8 months is still the size of a 4-6 week old betta. the current one is no bigger than this (------)
i have had him jarred and barracked for 5 months and virtually no growth.. just the colouring has emerged. he eats blackworm, bloodworm, brine shrimp ... etc etc. gets water changes couple of times per week.

i just find it wierd as i have already spawned his full brother and sisters and their spawns are bigger than him.

i will post a pic once i can get a focused one.Mel

I suspect they are runts. Managed to breed most of them out of my line.