Percentage of Halfmoons in each spawn

[Foo Hong]

Since we have a section in HM , time to split the subject by sections.

No posts from me...ha!

[Foo Hong]

A few persons asked me at the roadshow. One in particular went...How many percent of HM can your blue "HEE CHENG" ( line of fish..in Hokkien ) produced on average in each spawn.

My answer was....firstly I ve never bothered to count :D
secondly, do you include females? [eb]
thirdly.....of the males, about maybe 70 to 80 percent will reach about 160 at least at 2.5 to 3months, but only 20 to 30 percent will end up with perfect D shape tails or over D at 4 or 5 months!

"SEE MEH.....? WOO NGIA BOH? " (really?)
"HEE ANN NEE SUAY JIAK ANN ZHUA AA CHAI NGIA ?" (How to tell when the fish is still small )

Told him to look at the ray branching of the smallest fish on the display shelf. Guy cleaned his glasses, put it back on and stare, stare, stare....zzzzzzz [B)]

"BOH LEH....SEE ME 'RAY'? WAH KUA BOH LEH !" (cant see any damn rays) [bt]

Told him to buy a Jack Lewin poster and stare at home....at his own leisure [8D]

[Myron Tay]

I managed to save four from my latest spawn of extended reds of about 150. But I have heard of at least one more and a few others I am keeping that seem to be approaching HM! So I would say less than 5% from my extended red spawn.

[derrick kuah]

myron , heard from chenhan , one of the two ,turned hm already. a big thank you to you. let my friend enjoy the fishes for a week or two before ,his mission(work) start. thank you again.

[Chee Koon]

myron, yr reds are simply fantastic! "jaw dropping" good looking fishes to look at. the best red in town. noticed yr red finnage is very strong. thick and "hard". think 5% HM is an understatement!

[Toh Chen Han]

Yeah one is a HM liowz. Fantastic outcurling rays...the tail cannot 'close'. Always at least 90 degrees I think. =p

[Myron Tay]

Wah pai seh pai seh. Don't agree that they are the best reds. Got much better reds out there but only me posting about my reds in this forum only. But we getting off topic liow...

[Toh Chen Han]

Hahah...myron is turning...RED! =)

[Jonathan_Tan]

i think HMs are already established in the irid lines...
quite high percentages.. as compared to other colours..

[Toh Chen Han]

How would all the colours rank in terms of consistency in producing HM? Foo HOng?

[Dr Hsu]

IMO, I think only the irids and perhaps pastels/grizzled fish have good consistency in producing HMs. Perhaps the opaques from certain lines nowadays also reaching the leves of pastel etc about a yr back. Other colors seem to be a little inconsistent

[Toh Chen Han]

Thats true. But for fun, let's try to come up with rough ranking. I put a firstcut list here and can edit if ppl post their opinion here:

[Toh Chen Han]

Ranking of highst % of HM Fries
1-3.Irids (between blue/steel/turq is there greater tendency for one colour to produce HM?)
4.Pastels/Grizzles
5.Yellow
6.Marble
7.Ext red
8.Chocolate
9.Opaque
10.Mustard Gas
11.Melano

[Mark Choon]

hmm..does irids include butterflys?

[Foo Hong]

to be more clear as to what we are benchmarking so that readers do not get confused, we are only talking abt the 180deg caudal here, including fishes that may not have symmetry. I said this bcos for me, there is a diff betw a HM and a good HM.

So having said, just going by the 180 caudal [with reason ray splits of up to 8 splits], my own experience are:-

1. Irids [ every spawn throws HMs, with a high % of very good ones ]
2. Whites [ every spawn throws HMs, fewer % of good ones vs irids]
3. Blacks [ black derivd from irids will have some good HMs ]
4. Yellows [ like whites but less beautiful and fewer]
5. Reds [ if you consider 100% clean chilli red, I havent got one so far]

Butterflies/marbles/pastels I will include as irids for this purpose as I would work them from irid lines. so once the colour is fixed, they shld technically be as productive. I dont work pastels.

MGs is probably like blacks but a tad lower.

[Toh Chen Han]

I didn't include butterflies cos there are so many variants - confusing. =p

Hmmm..interesting. I never knew red was quite so 'chialat'. Seem to see more red HMs around than black/mustard gas. Maybe it's cos of focus.

[Foo Hong]

I mean clean reds!

[Toh Chen Han]

Oh that makes a big difference! =p

[Myron Tay]

I have not seen a good clean red HM to date.

[Myron Tay]

Originally posted by Kelvin Tan:

wow i understand derrick achieve 30% HM for his totoro x saicho spawns (6 spawns!!) so i am intersted to find out the percentage for the rest of the irids breeders..... also even better derrick sold more than 30 pieces in less than 2 days wow......

our role model here?

[Myron Tay]

Originally posted by Kelvin Tan:

wow i understand derrick achieve 30% HM for his totoro x saicho spawns (6 spawns!!) so i am intersted to find out the percentage for the rest of the irids breeders..... also even better derrick sold more than 30 pieces in less than 2 days wow......

our role model here?

[Kelvin Tan]

thanks

[Kelvin Tan]

thanks

[Foo Hong]

Before, I was told by many that being able to obtain about 30to40% 180 deg deltas is no easy feat and at that time, only the likes of bonnie, goettner, illig, ferris and so can get such results. the norm, i was told, being only abt 10% usually. With that kinda mentally, I was more driven by 'mass spawning' so that the after-culling leaves me with enuf good fishes.

Until I visited the legendary Atison Phumchoosri. What a sight to see shelf after shelfs of jarred HMs.....so many! Since then I am convinced, and so is Atison, that a high % is not something not achievable. while we are not talking 100% HMs, we are talking about 70 to 80%.

[Foo Hong]

Before, I was told by many that being able to obtain about 30to40% 180 deg deltas is no easy feat and at that time, only the likes of bonnie, goettner, illig, ferris and so can get such results. the norm, i was told, being only abt 10% usually. With that kinda mentally, I was more driven by 'mass spawning' so that the after-culling leaves me with enuf good fishes.

Until I visited the legendary Atison Phumchoosri. What a sight to see shelf after shelfs of jarred HMs.....so many! Since then I am convinced, and so is Atison, that a high % is not something not achievable. while we are not talking 100% HMs, we are talking about 70 to 80%.

[Myron Tay]

Read on Topbetta's website that he has a melano line that produced 75% HMs (though not necessary all melano HMs)! Looks like it is possible to produce a very good HM line with selective breeding. So what's next?

[Adrian Phoon]

[33]I THINK IT DEPENDS ON WHAT THE PARENTS OF THE SPAWN ARE... IF BOTH ARE HM THEN MOST PROBABLY THE FRYS ARE HM...[dt]

[Myron Tay]

I would qualify what you said by adding that to achieve HMs in your spawn, the parents should come from an established strong HM line. Crossing HMs from weak HM lines might not produce the desired outcome.

quote:Originally posted by Adrian Phoon

[33]I THINK IT DEPENDS ON WHAT THE PARENTS OF THE SPAWN ARE... IF BOTH ARE HM THEN MOST PROBABLY THE FRYS ARE HM...[dt]

[derrick kuah]

Adrian,
you are right in some way, but the trick is ,a good hm type female(straight edge,180% finnages),good rays branchings and others(colour....etc,etc).i m saying this through expereiences.Problem is where to get good female,thge usaual pratice of pair,good male and a so so female(from lfs and breeders). most breeders will kept the most beautiful"girls" for themselves.including myself..ha ha
Like Myron said ,you can,t get good percentages of hms by simpily putting two hms together.you might get some hms but quality wise, its depend on the pair genos.