2nd Asian Betta Competition

[Chris Yew]

A meeting between the 4 Founders of the Asian Betta Congress - Chris Yew, TK Lee, Atison and Henry Yin, was carried out on the evening of 6 Dec 2002 after the prize presentation.

It was decided that MBA of Malaysia will host the 2nd Asian Betta Competition in KL just a few days before the Aquarama 2003 which is late May 2003. This will facilitate participants to take part in both competition. This time, participants from all over the world will be allowed to take part. More details will be out soon!

Get prepared members!

[Samuel Phan]

Wow!!!! Now a global event.
But may I know what Singapore entries get to be sent to compete?
Winners from recent round of NBC?

[Samuel Phan]

Wow!!!! Now a global event.
But may I know what Singapore entries get to be sent to compete?
Winners from recent round of NBC?

[Samuel Phan]

Wow!!!! Now a global event.
But may I know what Singapore entries get to be sent to compete?
Winners from recent round of NBC?

[Myron Tay]

I think anyone can send in right?

[Myron Tay]

I think anyone can send in right?

[Myron Tay]

I think anyone can send in right?

[Samuel Phan]

I meant the 2nd ABC ... I believe all entries will have to send through BCS for Singapore entries. Thus BCS will probably reserve the final decision on which entries to be sent for competition.

But for Aquarama ... anyone can send.

[Samuel Phan]

I meant the 2nd ABC ... I believe all entries will have to send through BCS for Singapore entries. Thus BCS will probably reserve the final decision on which entries to be sent for competition.

But for Aquarama ... anyone can send.

[Samuel Phan]

I meant the 2nd ABC ... I believe all entries will have to send through BCS for Singapore entries. Thus BCS will probably reserve the final decision on which entries to be sent for competition.

But for Aquarama ... anyone can send.

[Myron Tay]

I also mean the 2nd ABC. Surely we do not want to limit the entries to only past winners?

[Myron Tay]

I also mean the 2nd ABC. Surely we do not want to limit the entries to only past winners?

[Myron Tay]

I also mean the 2nd ABC. Surely we do not want to limit the entries to only past winners?

[Samuel Phan]

True ... but BCS will probably have to do a prelim round of selection before any entries are sent up ... rite?

Chris ... care to throw some light on this?

Also ... as foreign entries ... there might also be a cap to the number of entries.

[Samuel Phan]

True ... but BCS will probably have to do a prelim round of selection before any entries are sent up ... rite?

Chris ... care to throw some light on this?

Also ... as foreign entries ... there might also be a cap to the number of entries.

[Chris Yew]

All that I know is that all entries will have to be sent via their respective club (Singapore will be BCS and not guppy or lou han club). As for the limit on entries, no idea yet.

[Chris Yew]

All that I know is that all entries will have to be sent via their respective club (Singapore will be BCS and not guppy or lou han club). As for the limit on entries, no idea yet.

[Myron Tay]

Thanks for the heads-up Chris. Just a note that we should make sure there is enough time for anyone to get the fish back in time for entry into the Aquarama competition should the owner decide to do so.

[Myron Tay]

Thanks for the heads-up Chris. Just a note that we should make sure there is enough time for anyone to get the fish back in time for entry into the Aquarama competition should the owner decide to do so.

[Chris Yew]

The representative will do so - guess it's not me.

[Chris Yew]

The representative will do so - guess it's not me.

[Myron Tay]

I meant more in timing (date) of the 2nd ABC.

[Myron Tay]

I meant more in timing (date) of the 2nd ABC.

[Foo Hong]

Jis lat liao! Must have 2 sets of fishes. From last experience, its not a good idea to drive yr fishes up to KL....they ll be pale like pontianak by time they get there . and plus another trip back saem style, thye will look like holy ghost at the aquarama.

I strongly propose, like what straits did, go/return by plane! Also, yr fishes have to be in prime health to make it and return in good shape.

[Foo Hong]

Jis lat liao! Must have 2 sets of fishes. From last experience, its not a good idea to drive yr fishes up to KL....they ll be pale like pontianak by time they get there . and plus another trip back saem style, thye will look like holy ghost at the aquarama.

I strongly propose, like what straits did, go/return by plane! Also, yr fishes have to be in prime health to make it and return in good shape.

[Toh Chen Han]

There seems to be a war brewing on the global halfmoonbetta forum. Looks like the halfmoon breeders not happy about ct female winning at ABC or something. Wonder what all this is going to boil down to in terms of future participation from the west.

[Toh Chen Han]

There seems to be a war brewing on the global halfmoonbetta forum. Looks like the halfmoon breeders not happy about ct female winning at ABC or something. Wonder what all this is going to boil down to in terms of future participation from the west.

[Chris Yew]

First of all they all are members of Global Halfmoon Betta Club and the topic is about a CT female. Is there any relevance in it? Are they applying HM judging standard to judge a CT as well? Or they have change the club to Global CT Betta Club? Even if I will to look at their winning fishes in their club, I may also say "woh, like that also can win"! I find that what they have done or said are rather disrepect to other clubs or organisation. If Eddy is not happy about the result, he can always raise the topic in any Asian club here instead of a HM club.

[Chris Yew]

First of all they all are members of Global Halfmoon Betta Club and the topic is about a CT female. Is there any relevance in it? Are they applying HM judging standard to judge a CT as well? Or they have change the club to Global CT Betta Club? Even if I will to look at their winning fishes in their club, I may also say "woh, like that also can win"! I find that what they have done or said are rather disrepect to other clubs or organisation. If Eddy is not happy about the result, he can always raise the topic in any Asian club here instead of a HM club.

[Toh Chen Han]

Yes, if one club criticises and belittles the judging standards of other clubs, then instead of globalising the hobby, it will lead to fragmentation. They are an exclusive HM club, but the ABC's scope is not so limited. I think the comments made there are rather unfriendly, and to be frank, arrogant. A pity.

[Toh Chen Han]

Yes, if one club criticises and belittles the judging standards of other clubs, then instead of globalising the hobby, it will lead to fragmentation. They are an exclusive HM club, but the ABC's scope is not so limited. I think the comments made there are rather unfriendly, and to be frank, arrogant. A pity.

[Chris Yew]

Well, TK and I have made our replies at;
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/halfmoonbetta/?yguid=86367131

You need to join that Yahoo club inorder to read.

[Chris Yew]

Well, TK and I have made our replies at;
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/halfmoonbetta/?yguid=86367131

You need to join that Yahoo club inorder to read.

[Foo Hong]

It boils down to diff judging stds, scope of the show, etc.

When people like Rajiv n goettner judges, they probably judge a good female based on good breedability, caudal spread being a primary consideration as well as short fins. That female probably was a 'halfsun' strain, and could have been judged as winner bcos of just its caudal spread.

[Foo Hong]

It boils down to diff judging stds, scope of the show, etc.

When people like Rajiv n goettner judges, they probably judge a good female based on good breedability, caudal spread being a primary consideration as well as short fins. That female probably was a 'halfsun' strain, and could have been judged as winner bcos of just its caudal spread.

[Phil]

Judging is always a very subjective issue. It does not mean that a champion fish in one show can be a champion or even a prize winner in another. There are some basic criteria of course but the finer details are very much the joudges perogative.

[Phil]

Judging is always a very subjective issue. It does not mean that a champion fish in one show can be a champion or even a prize winner in another. There are some basic criteria of course but the finer details are very much the joudges perogative.

[Chris Yew]

I'm totally surprised by Peter G. replied to TK Lee;
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/halfmoonbetta/message/617

[Chris Yew]

I'm totally surprised by Peter G. replied to TK Lee;
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/halfmoonbetta/message/617

[Dr Hsu]

Dan Young was totally diplomatic; Goettner......well, let's just say he just lost some of my respect[V]

[Dr Hsu]

Dan Young was totally diplomatic; Goettner......well, let's just say he just lost some of my respect[V]

[Foo Hong]

some of the best known breeders around argueing over silly stuffs. I sort of read Goettners reply with disbelief. In fact find it a bit egocentric, being unable to accept the fact that a fish previously judged by him and won, have been judged otherwise elsewhere. Come on, the same fish may not look as good as it is all the time.

[Foo Hong]

some of the best known breeders around argueing over silly stuffs. I sort of read Goettners reply with disbelief. In fact find it a bit egocentric, being unable to accept the fact that a fish previously judged by him and won, have been judged otherwise elsewhere. Come on, the same fish may not look as good as it is all the time.

[Kelvin Tan]

that eddy chandran talk like damn big pro....f hong show him yr losing white female la hahah

his fish quite terrible looking to me, check out his gallery

[Kelvin Tan]

that eddy chandran talk like damn big pro....f hong show him yr losing white female la hahah

his fish quite terrible looking to me, check out his gallery

[Myron Tay]

Personally, I think we can learn from this episode. When someone flares at us (even personally) in an insulting manner, we can flare back in two ways:
(i) In the same (or worse) insulting manner; or
(ii) In a non-personal manner, focusing on the points / facts of discussion rather than at the person.
I see a trend that we tend to adopt (i) here lately and would like to persuade all to use (ii) instead. We should tear apart the notions / propositions / points that are not sound (not tear apart the person and question his judging ability) and accept that people could have different opinions (especially on something as subjective as beauty).
As mentioned by all, using (i) would make you lose respect. (ii) would help you earn it.

[Myron Tay]

Personally, I think we can learn from this episode. When someone flares at us (even personally) in an insulting manner, we can flare back in two ways:
(i) In the same (or worse) insulting manner; or
(ii) In a non-personal manner, focusing on the points / facts of discussion rather than at the person.
I see a trend that we tend to adopt (i) here lately and would like to persuade all to use (ii) instead. We should tear apart the notions / propositions / points that are not sound (not tear apart the person and question his judging ability) and accept that people could have different opinions (especially on something as subjective as beauty).
As mentioned by all, using (i) would make you lose respect. (ii) would help you earn it.

[Samuel Phan]

;)Lossing your cool will only make things worse and sometimes un-repairable.

[Samuel Phan]

;)Lossing your cool will only make things worse and sometimes un-repairable.

[kennho]

Each side take pride in their fish. The word "insult" is not a good word to use when come to international communities and will cause further tension. Focus on the arguments instead. Noone is perfect.

Be it a winner half the globe away or just somewhere near our neighbourhood. I see Rajiv has stated something that echoed what I have mentioned when I was first shocked by the grand lady.

" I want good judging in bettas. This means defining what you are judging for and than judge well. Only this can send the right message and only this will help the hobby move forward. " Rajiv

"When comes to a national level of competition, the judges or the criterias should suit to the level of appreciation at the particular representing club or organisation." Me.

" When setting stds, we must be impartial and set aside any conflicts of interest. Stda shld be set at the highest degree but achievable. Actually the IBC and Halfmoon breeders club have very good stds already. Just that their weightage in various criteria could be modified. No need to reinvent the wheel entirely. We have to take a piece of paper and draw a fish based on our stds and ask ourselves...honestly.....how will a fish look like in all these aspects....and decide whether these shoudl eb our criteria. " Foo Hong

Let's move on and look at what mistakes have been made and what remedies should be taken to prevent such undesireable effect and not wasting too much time. Let us understand what judges want and how we can deliver the next time.

[kennho]

Each side take pride in their fish. The word "insult" is not a good word to use when come to international communities and will cause further tension. Focus on the arguments instead. Noone is perfect.

Be it a winner half the globe away or just somewhere near our neighbourhood. I see Rajiv has stated something that echoed what I have mentioned when I was first shocked by the grand lady.

" I want good judging in bettas. This means defining what you are judging for and than judge well. Only this can send the right message and only this will help the hobby move forward. " Rajiv

"When comes to a national level of competition, the judges or the criterias should suit to the level of appreciation at the particular representing club or organisation." Me.

" When setting stds, we must be impartial and set aside any conflicts of interest. Stda shld be set at the highest degree but achievable. Actually the IBC and Halfmoon breeders club have very good stds already. Just that their weightage in various criteria could be modified. No need to reinvent the wheel entirely. We have to take a piece of paper and draw a fish based on our stds and ask ourselves...honestly.....how will a fish look like in all these aspects....and decide whether these shoudl eb our criteria. " Foo Hong

Let's move on and look at what mistakes have been made and what remedies should be taken to prevent such undesireable effect and not wasting too much time. Let us understand what judges want and how we can deliver the next time.

[Phil]

That is the beauty of bettas. No fish can really dominate a show especially if they are months apart. Todays winners can be tomorrow losers. quite surprised that PG isn't aware of this

[Phil]

That is the beauty of bettas. No fish can really dominate a show especially if they are months apart. Todays winners can be tomorrow losers. quite surprised that PG isn't aware of this

[Foo Hong]

Thanks...Kelvin. Yep maybe I shall called by Best female 'eddy' and throw her into a tank with a pitbull male and see her[or him] being chewed....kekeke.

Then show eddy the pic of a shredded female "BOS"

[Foo Hong]

Thanks...Kelvin. Yep maybe I shall called by Best female 'eddy' and throw her into a tank with a pitbull male and see her[or him] being chewed....kekeke.

Then show eddy the pic of a shredded female "BOS"

[Chris Yew]

Definitely we must go on as there's still much to be done in the club. But at times we must also defend our own stand and right and fight for it - there's nothing cool about to keep quiet when being pushover by them. They have used our GC photo and now another winning photo (Lex's) without our club's permission - do you think that it's OK to keep our cool and let them go ahead juz becoz they are well known breeders or judges or whatever?

Judging standard and criteria definitely will have to improve or to come out with it at our club's level or ABC's level. No doubt the IBC or GHMC have good standard or not, I do not know as I'm not their club's member and I've not seen their standard. But do their have good judging standard and criteria for CT, plakat and wild too? I keep my fingers crossed. Do we want all our CT, plakat and wild to have the 180 deg D in their caudal to be considered as a good standard juz like the HM? All plakat and wild being judged in that way too? Is the caudal judging the onli judging standard for all, that's we can ignored about the dorsal, anal and ventral as well? Can a betta have a 180 deg D shape caudal be a champ even if it's ventral less or even with fin rot anal and dorsal fin?

Even IBC and GHMC has standard for the judging, someone got to start writing on it and share it in this club. Saying without action - what's the use? I easy to take a back seat and start commenting on something when something goes wrong. But who wants to be the grassroot leaders and start working on it. There's definitely no need to reinvent the wheel, but let's show us that wheel and let us see if it's a Flintstone wheel or a Ferrari wheel?

It's also not important how we should flare back at them at this point as many will choose not to flare back at them becoz they are some well known figures in the betta scene. The fact is that should they flare at us in the first case? Should they keep using our club's winning betta photo (GC and now Lex's photo) without our permission and comment on our judges decision, etc....and end with let's not take it too personal.

My next point is what Eddy said in his last post;
[quote]quote:but the Problem i heard the result from my friends in Indonesia...they were angry because the winner of the Best Female was not good...i was not in Singapore thatswhy i asked them why ?...they told me , the best Female is normal CT (not Special) ...for Indonesia Contest ,this fish not good enough for contest...first round is already out from the noted..as you know Indonesia is Popular for Crowntail and also the country where the Crowntail come..we export many Crowntail to singapore,Malaysia,USA and many Countries..also before this ABC Contest, the people bought also from my Friends in Indonesia for this Contest..so we know ,which Crowntail is a good Quality or not..thats why i don

[Chris Yew]

Definitely we must go on as there's still much to be done in the club. But at times we must also defend our own stand and right and fight for it - there's nothing cool about to keep quiet when being pushover by them. They have used our GC photo and now another winning photo (Lex's) without our club's permission - do you think that it's OK to keep our cool and let them go ahead juz becoz they are well known breeders or judges or whatever?

Judging standard and criteria definitely will have to improve or to come out with it at our club's level or ABC's level. No doubt the IBC or GHMC have good standard or not, I do not know as I'm not their club's member and I've not seen their standard. But do their have good judging standard and criteria for CT, plakat and wild too? I keep my fingers crossed. Do we want all our CT, plakat and wild to have the 180 deg D in their caudal to be considered as a good standard juz like the HM? All plakat and wild being judged in that way too? Is the caudal judging the onli judging standard for all, that's we can ignored about the dorsal, anal and ventral as well? Can a betta have a 180 deg D shape caudal be a champ even if it's ventral less or even with fin rot anal and dorsal fin?

Even IBC and GHMC has standard for the judging, someone got to start writing on it and share it in this club. Saying without action - what's the use? I easy to take a back seat and start commenting on something when something goes wrong. But who wants to be the grassroot leaders and start working on it. There's definitely no need to reinvent the wheel, but let's show us that wheel and let us see if it's a Flintstone wheel or a Ferrari wheel?

It's also not important how we should flare back at them at this point as many will choose not to flare back at them becoz they are some well known figures in the betta scene. The fact is that should they flare at us in the first case? Should they keep using our club's winning betta photo (GC and now Lex's photo) without our permission and comment on our judges decision, etc....and end with let's not take it too personal.

My next point is what Eddy said in his last post;
[quote]quote:but the Problem i heard the result from my friends in Indonesia...they were angry because the winner of the Best Female was not good...i was not in Singapore thatswhy i asked them why ?...they told me , the best Female is normal CT (not Special) ...for Indonesia Contest ,this fish not good enough for contest...first round is already out from the noted..as you know Indonesia is Popular for Crowntail and also the country where the Crowntail come..we export many Crowntail to singapore,Malaysia,USA and many Countries..also before this ABC Contest, the people bought also from my Friends in Indonesia for this Contest..so we know ,which Crowntail is a good Quality or not..thats why i don

[kennho]

Who is that Eddy. WOW ... as if like King of Betta. Cannot tahan liao.

Chris, there is no copyright stated on the BCS site nor the photo gallery. It's about time to put in something on each photo submitted to the gallery.

[kennho]

Who is that Eddy. WOW ... as if like King of Betta. Cannot tahan liao.

Chris, there is no copyright stated on the BCS site nor the photo gallery. It's about time to put in something on each photo submitted to the gallery.

[Chris Yew]

Even we put copyright, we can't afford to have it copyright right? This is basic courtesy even we didn't put anything there and even we really put and have copyright there, what can we do if they choose to use our photos without permission? Sue them? Those guys are real arrogant, don't you agree?

Probably to the GHMC, every betta must have a 180deg D shape caudal and any other things are immaterial...

quote:Originally posted by kennho

Who is that Eddy. WOW ... as if like King of Betta. Cannot tahan liao.

Chris, there is no copyright stated on the BCS site nor the photo gallery. It's about time to put in something on each photo submitted to the gallery.

[Chris Yew]

Even we put copyright, we can't afford to have it copyright right? This is basic courtesy even we didn't put anything there and even we really put and have copyright there, what can we do if they choose to use our photos without permission? Sue them? Those guys are real arrogant, don't you agree?

Probably to the GHMC, every betta must have a 180deg D shape caudal and any other things are immaterial...

quote:Originally posted by kennho

Who is that Eddy. WOW ... as if like King of Betta. Cannot tahan liao.

Chris, there is no copyright stated on the BCS site nor the photo gallery. It's about time to put in something on each photo submitted to the gallery.

[kennho]

Chris, not really the so-called Copyright lah. Edit the photo to distort it with BCS logo on it, or just put in a tiny thumbnail size in the gallery.

I guess to them, the caudal means everything. That's not the way to appreciate a fish. Worst of all, dictating what a fish should look in their eyes instead of others.

[kennho]

Chris, not really the so-called Copyright lah. Edit the photo to distort it with BCS logo on it, or just put in a tiny thumbnail size in the gallery.

I guess to them, the caudal means everything. That's not the way to appreciate a fish. Worst of all, dictating what a fish should look in their eyes instead of others.

[Tan Xiao YI]

erm...there is a system call "hands off" ppl can oni see canot copy paste or save frm net unless web master off it...juz a suggestion hope will help...(erm..i duno wer 2 get it...dun ask mi oni come acroos wif it oni...)

[Tan Xiao YI]

erm...there is a system call "hands off" ppl can oni see canot copy paste or save frm net unless web master off it...juz a suggestion hope will help...(erm..i duno wer 2 get it...dun ask mi oni come acroos wif it oni...)

[Chris Yew]

Chances are that the 2nd ABC will be changed to either in the month of Sep or Oct 2003 instead of May 2003. More time to prepare for it guys!

[Chris Yew]

Chances are that the 2nd ABC will be changed to either in the month of Sep or Oct 2003 instead of May 2003. More time to prepare for it guys!