"Japanese" Vs. "USA" origin Halfmoons

[Foo Hong]

Ah haahhhh....... So the competition has just ended and what did you guys noticed? As far as I was concerned, I was only back on day 2 of the show....still suffering from diarrhea[opps!]
Well I choose to raise this topic for pue discussion, not to make critics. These are just my personal observations ....and...anyone is most welcomed to offer a different view. Wll I heard a lot of the Jap lines and had wanted for some time to make some comparison. Well comparison is here! I cant remember that chap's name. I bought one of his turquoise, and I spent the whole of this morning putting his fish next to my best turquoise HM and compared [oh this bloke didnt win btw...ha!] Most particpating entries seem to have originated from the japs and/or thais, some of whom also got from japs. Anyway, since my lines are largely descend from USA stock[goettner and Mckinley], I will just base on this 2 turq fishes to make a general comparison on their strengths over each other.[there will be variations using others]

1. Body thickness
Jap-Very nice and thick bullet like shape. Not sure if they are well fed but fish has a big body.
USA-Thinner than the jap fish. Maybe my dad didnt feed enuf...ha!

2. Body/tail proportion
Jap-mmmm mostly 60/40 ie short tails altho could reach 55/45 as it grows larger....too be seen n proven
USA-about 55/45 or 52/48. more fin volume.

3. Colour
Jap-clean, metallic. scales more noticeable. green colour reaches gill cover. Head not very dark
USA-clean, less metallic. scales less noticeable and more even. green colour stops behind gill cover. head is black.

4. Dorsal fin
Jap-broad n short. 2 ray branching. above 60 degree in elevation. Very smooth fin edges.
USA-Broad but longer, like caudal tail. 4 ray branching. less than 60 deg elevation. fin edges not as smooth as jap but still even.

5. caudal fin[tail]
Jap-good flaring strength, rays thick, branches to 8[middle] and 4[at the other edges], reaches 175 spread. Outtest side edge straight initially but doesnt reach the very end, ie, does not hit a 90 deg sharp corner like a protractor. I would relate this to the lesser branching in rays. hence, no 'ouward-curling' ends. Smooth perimeter at the ends
USA-comparable flaring ability but the full spread seems to kick in after 1 or 2 secs, probably due to more fin volume. 16 rays branching
outtest side edges straighter than jap, hits the end to form a sharp 90 deg corner. Curls outwards, as such together with the rays splitting, able to spread about 190deg. Liek dorsal, ends even but not as smooth as jap.

6. Anal fin
Jap-squarish and same length as caudal. base of fin same length as the baseline at the body. The 2 corners are rounded slightly like caudal fin. 2 rays splitting in onlya few sets of rays at the rear.
USA-trapezium shape with a broader base that pulls forward. Sharp frontal corner that 'hooks' forward. 2 rays split on every ray sets. overall looks better than jap.

7. Ventrals
Jap-very long and straight down and tapers nicely.
USA-also long but does not taper as well. Some ray splitting noted.

So how...kekekeke....if it is as easy as a jigsaw puzzle, then just cut the better areas and make yr own fish....well breeding is different.....thanks for reading this long post!
{to be continued.....if there is sufficient interest/replies]

[Samuel Phan]

Nice cpmparison ... it is really a very detailed and enlightening one.

[Samuel Phan]

Nice cpmparison ... it is really a very detailed and enlightening one.

[Samuel Phan]

Nice cpmparison ... it is really a very detailed and enlightening one.

[Myron Tay]

Not sure if we are just comparing between two phenos LOL!

But basically, looking at the Japanese lines for the first time, my impression is that the bettas from Japan tend to reflect an obsession with purity, be it in colour or form. However, there is less emphasis on volume.

[Myron Tay]

Not sure if we are just comparing between two phenos LOL!

But basically, looking at the Japanese lines for the first time, my impression is that the bettas from Japan tend to reflect an obsession with purity, be it in colour or form. However, there is less emphasis on volume.

[Myron Tay]

Not sure if we are just comparing between two phenos LOL!

But basically, looking at the Japanese lines for the first time, my impression is that the bettas from Japan tend to reflect an obsession with purity, be it in colour or form. However, there is less emphasis on volume.

[Foo Hong]

Thats what the japs are famous for....even when u buy a rock melon from a supermarket, it is nicely wrapped like an easter egg!

[Foo Hong]

Thats what the japs are famous for....even when u buy a rock melon from a supermarket, it is nicely wrapped like an easter egg!

[Foo Hong]

Thats what the japs are famous for....even when u buy a rock melon from a supermarket, it is nicely wrapped like an easter egg!

[benjamin wong]

weird i was handling most of the japanese's fishes i
don't recall him having a turquoise for sale...
did they sell you a wrong fish?
i remember the sales are as follows.

red pair X 02
black orange X 01
white pair X 01
[?]

[benjamin wong]

weird i was handling most of the japanese's fishes i
don't recall him having a turquoise for sale...
did they sell you a wrong fish?
i remember the sales are as follows.

red pair X 02
black orange X 01
white pair X 01
[?]

[benjamin wong]

weird i was handling most of the japanese's fishes i
don't recall him having a turquoise for sale...
did they sell you a wrong fish?
i remember the sales are as follows.

red pair X 02
black orange X 01
white pair X 01
[?]

[Foo Hong]

Oh? kekekeke......anyway, call it whatever.....just a comparison. I want to see how well[ or not well] this fish can hold its tail as he grows. Personally, I dont quite prefer this sort of ray structure. But I bought this fish with one objective - to piece what I would consider one last missing puzzle in my line....the perfect dorsal!

[Foo Hong]

Oh? kekekeke......anyway, call it whatever.....just a comparison. I want to see how well[ or not well] this fish can hold its tail as he grows. Personally, I dont quite prefer this sort of ray structure. But I bought this fish with one objective - to piece what I would consider one last missing puzzle in my line....the perfect dorsal!

[Foo Hong]

Oh? kekekeke......anyway, call it whatever.....just a comparison. I want to see how well[ or not well] this fish can hold its tail as he grows. Personally, I dont quite prefer this sort of ray structure. But I bought this fish with one objective - to piece what I would consider one last missing puzzle in my line....the perfect dorsal!

[Kelvin Tan]

think that was a thai fish?

[Kelvin Tan]

think that was a thai fish?

[Kelvin Tan]

think that was a thai fish?

[Samuel Phan]

Yep ... Foo Hong ... what you have purchased is actually either a Thai/Indonesia fish. Definitely not a fish from the totoro line.

Totoro fishes all starts with the 6XX.

[Samuel Phan]

Yep ... Foo Hong ... what you have purchased is actually either a Thai/Indonesia fish. Definitely not a fish from the totoro line.

Totoro fishes all starts with the 6XX.

[Samuel Phan]

Yep ... Foo Hong ... what you have purchased is actually either a Thai/Indonesia fish. Definitely not a fish from the totoro line.

Totoro fishes all starts with the 6XX.

[Foo Hong]

OH! Yeah Anyway the Thais have some which resemble the japanese. I know they bot from Japan, some of them. Anyway Thai or Jap.....I bot it bcos there is something I like about it which I wish to see if they can be combined into my line....of cos there are other aspects I dislike...ha!

[Foo Hong]

OH! Yeah Anyway the Thais have some which resemble the japanese. I know they bot from Japan, some of them. Anyway Thai or Jap.....I bot it bcos there is something I like about it which I wish to see if they can be combined into my line....of cos there are other aspects I dislike...ha!

[Foo Hong]

OH! Yeah Anyway the Thais have some which resemble the japanese. I know they bot from Japan, some of them. Anyway Thai or Jap.....I bot it bcos there is something I like about it which I wish to see if they can be combined into my line....of cos there are other aspects I dislike...ha!

[Samuel Phan]

But have to agree that the piece that you got is a beauty ... very nice color and caudal spread.

[Samuel Phan]

But have to agree that the piece that you got is a beauty ... very nice color and caudal spread.

[Samuel Phan]

But have to agree that the piece that you got is a beauty ... very nice color and caudal spread.

[benjamin wong]

i have a few of the totoro blues.
i will post some when my webpage is done.
some were present from him. :)

[benjamin wong]

i have a few of the totoro blues.
i will post some when my webpage is done.
some were present from him. :)

[benjamin wong]

i have a few of the totoro blues.
i will post some when my webpage is done.
some were present from him. :)

[Foo Hong]

Great....

Saw totoro's black. Great proportion for black but colour lacks intensity.....finnage has lacy see through ....not black enuf.....
and $200 some more!

[Foo Hong]

Great....

Saw totoro's black. Great proportion for black but colour lacks intensity.....finnage has lacy see through ....not black enuf.....
and $200 some more!

[Foo Hong]

Great....

Saw totoro's black. Great proportion for black but colour lacks intensity.....finnage has lacy see through ....not black enuf.....
and $200 some more!

[Kelvin Tan]

tklee's black was great if you guys saw it....

[Kelvin Tan]

tklee's black was great if you guys saw it....

[Kelvin Tan]

tklee's black was great if you guys saw it....

[Foo Hong]

Saw them in KL show....didnt like them. looks more like the Thai type. There was one piece however at the KL show submitted by someone...was suppose to be a Totoro black lace or marble x steel/melano. fish not placed due to ..rightly....the clear outter band like a BF that was very distinct. But form wise was good ....too bad owner not selling it.

[Foo Hong]

Saw them in KL show....didnt like them. looks more like the Thai type. There was one piece however at the KL show submitted by someone...was suppose to be a Totoro black lace or marble x steel/melano. fish not placed due to ..rightly....the clear outter band like a BF that was very distinct. But form wise was good ....too bad owner not selling it.

[Foo Hong]

Saw them in KL show....didnt like them. looks more like the Thai type. There was one piece however at the KL show submitted by someone...was suppose to be a Totoro black lace or marble x steel/melano. fish not placed due to ..rightly....the clear outter band like a BF that was very distinct. But form wise was good ....too bad owner not selling it.

[Kelvin Tan]

actually now isnt thai/US/singapore/jap fish kinda all become hard to identify since everyone import from each other. and thru crossing with own..... is there really such thing as fish from a specific country? dun we all have thai/ US/ whatever country genes in our fish?

just wondering lo....... coz we all need to outcross ....

[Kelvin Tan]

actually now isnt thai/US/singapore/jap fish kinda all become hard to identify since everyone import from each other. and thru crossing with own..... is there really such thing as fish from a specific country? dun we all have thai/ US/ whatever country genes in our fish?

just wondering lo....... coz we all need to outcross ....

[Chris Yew]

Guess I was told by Nichol that the Totoro was the one that come out with the 'curtain like' Anal fin. That means both the side of the Anal fin are curving out that makes the base longer than the top. And he is now trying to improve the Dorsal fin as well to have that inverse 'curtain effect'.

quote:Originally posted by Foo Hong
6. Anal fin
Jap-squarish and same length as caudal. base of fin same length as the baseline at the body. The 2 corners are rounded slightly like caudal fin. 2 rays splitting in onlya few sets of rays at the rear.
USA-trapezium shape with a broader base that pulls forward. Sharp frontal corner that 'hooks' forward. 2 rays split on every ray sets. overall looks better than jap.

[Chris Yew]

Guess I was told by Nichol that the Totoro was the one that come out with the 'curtain like' Anal fin. That means both the side of the Anal fin are curving out that makes the base longer than the top. And he is now trying to improve the Dorsal fin as well to have that inverse 'curtain effect'.

quote:Originally posted by Foo Hong
6. Anal fin
Jap-squarish and same length as caudal. base of fin same length as the baseline at the body. The 2 corners are rounded slightly like caudal fin. 2 rays splitting in onlya few sets of rays at the rear.
USA-trapezium shape with a broader base that pulls forward. Sharp frontal corner that 'hooks' forward. 2 rays split on every ray sets. overall looks better than jap.

[Foo Hong]

I was told by an american judge Joe Cooper that Bonnie Mckinley's competing fishes used to put her competitors far behind bcos her fishes had fin volume, ruler straight caudal edges that hits a perfect 90 deg corner at both corners, and broad anal lower edge that pulls forward. Some lines derived from Peter Goettner are also able to have the long anal base. Goettners fishes had a sailfin like type of dorsal which bends backwards....probably the only setback in these lines.

So...totoro is working on teh dorsal.....so am I. Must catch up with him.....cannot lose to japanese! HA!

[Foo Hong]

I was told by an american judge Joe Cooper that Bonnie Mckinley's competing fishes used to put her competitors far behind bcos her fishes had fin volume, ruler straight caudal edges that hits a perfect 90 deg corner at both corners, and broad anal lower edge that pulls forward. Some lines derived from Peter Goettner are also able to have the long anal base. Goettners fishes had a sailfin like type of dorsal which bends backwards....probably the only setback in these lines.

So...totoro is working on teh dorsal.....so am I. Must catch up with him.....cannot lose to japanese! HA!