Is it True?Colour like Mother, Finnage like Father

[Chris Yew]

Hi members,

Very often we have heard from the more experienced breeders that when we spawn a pair, the colour of the spawn will take after the mother while the finnage will be like the father.

From this point of view (if it's true), before we put in a pair to spawn - if we want to have nice colour and good finnage, then we must choose a very good finnage male and a very nice colour female! How true is it or how well is this been practised by the experienced breeders? Take a look at some examples here;

1. How the MG CT is Derieved from Indrata, Indonesia;
Very similar to Purple above;

Grandparents : Yellow CT Male x MG Female (HM Geno) = F1
This is also to achieveCT finnage with MG colour for F1.

Parents : Multi Sala CT Male x Multi Sala CT Female = F2
Believed that the Multi Sala here refers to the colour that resembles MG!
Take a look at the outcome ;
http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/groups/exoticcrowntailbetta//Yahoo!+Photo+Album/MG3.jpg?grlliv8ALok8gYzc

Details of the spawn from forum;
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exoticcrowntailbetta/message/848

So do you have similar experiences to share on this issue?

Chris Yew
http://bettasonli.netfirms.com

[Dr Hsu]

Chris,

I have heard it the other way around! I'm sure you've heard of spawns where the male is fantastic (finnage wise) and yet spawn is s**t. Have heard that it's because the female is of lower grade.
Indrata's MG CT is basically an F2 from an initial CTxdelta spawn, selected for CT traits (plus magic Indonesian water!)
Personally, I think both are important - breed the best to the best!

Regards,

Li Chieh

[Chris Yew]

Hi Li Chieh,

Let's carry on the discussion a bit further;

Yes, both the male and female finnage are equally important. His MG CT is no doubt obtained from the F2 brother x sister.

1. If the first spawn Yellow CT Male x MG (HM Geno) Female is reversed; that is MG (HM Geno) X Yellow CT Female, the F2 will probably ends up with lots of combtail and may take a step back in obtaining back the MG colour.

2. For his original spawn, why didn't he used the F2 female x Yellow CT Male Father? Instead he choose to cross the siblings in the F2 spawn. This I also don't understand why?

Frankly, it's onli what I've been observing and hearing but have yet to see any confirmation on this topic. Definitely, in this case as I've mentioned, finnage for both male and female are equally important.

Chris Yew
http://bettasonli.netfirms.com


quote:
Chris,

I have heard it the other way around! I'm sure you've heard of spawns where the male is fantastic (finnage wise) and yet spawn is s**t. Have heard that it's because the female is of lower grade.
Indrata's MG CT is basically an F2 from an initial CTxdelta spawn, selected for CT traits (plus magic Indonesian water!)
Personally, I think both are important - breed the best to the best!

Regards,

Li Chieh

[Dr Hsu]

I have a few crosses that may be able to illustrate the randomness of it all....

1) Blue CT x DT Steel/melano
F1 - some poor CT like combs, others veil/ST/DT like - mostly thrown/lost
Did a F2 spawn on a whim and now have combs with good spread - I think male is mainly a comb, female too - only two that I have left in a community tank so put them together one day...plus this spawn very very small so maybe never gave the CT's that I was hoping for (had high hopes of melano CT! LOL )

2) Mask plakat x blue CT
F1 mainly poor CT, color good (both parents' color good)
Will be selecting to do F2 when I have the time and back crossing to mother

3) White CT x Ah San pastel ST
F1 - have to look real hard to find combs! Combs mainly on male type body color, whiter fish mainly with tiny spikes but good spread....How to do F2??? <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>

If you look at Indrata's F1 MG CT picture - really poor looking CT, more like comb. Maybe the female was nicer?


Regards,

Li Chieh

[jonpoh]

What I heard was like what Dr Hsu said too. Females determine finnage and male determines colour. Not sure..whether it is a myth, legend or truth? From what I have observed.. this theory might be slightly true. Dr Hsu perhaps would like to ask your genetist friend whether finnage are controlled by Y-link traits or X-link traits?



regards
Jonathan Poh<img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>

jonathan

[roycheok]

Li Chieh / Chris

To add to the confusion, I have just spawn a MG plakat (male
- from Foo Hong)to a Red CT (female) that I have lying around.
Dont really what will turn out, just spawn them cause I had
no other combinations to try.

Can you help predict what the F1 will turn out...I am more
interested in the colour combinations...than finnage at the
point.

[Chris Yew]

Alamak Roy,
You will sure get Salas Gas Plakat with Spike at the tails, LOL! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Chris Yew
http://bettasonli.netfirms.com


quote:
Li Chieh / Chris

To add to the confusion, I have just spawn a MG plakat (male
- from Foo Hong)to a Red CT (female) that I have lying around.
Dont really what will turn out, just spawn them cause I had
no other combinations to try.

Can you help predict what the F1 will turn out...I am more
interested in the colour combinations...than finnage at the
point.

[Dr Hsu]

Ya Roy,

You'll likely get rojak color fish with tails like my plakat cross - not-here-not-there.

Regards,

Li Chieh

[Jung]

LOL...<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>... but regarding original topic, my experience is that both finnage and colour inheritance from the female is stronger than the male... anyone bred true halfmoon females before, tell me if you concur?... does wonders to the finnage of the line...esp backcrossed F2...<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>...

[roycheok]

$#@$%... sounds like I am wasting my time & resources.
NVM...just try and if lousy, then more culls for Luo Hans.


quote:
Alamak Roy,
You will sure get Salas Gas Plakat with Spike at the tails, LOL! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Chris Yew
http://bettasonli.netfirms.com


quote:
Li Chieh / Chris

To add to the confusion, I have just spawn a MG plakat (male
- from Foo Hong)to a Red CT (female) that I have lying around.
Dont really what will turn out, just spawn them cause I had
no other combinations to try.

Can you help predict what the F1 will turn out...I am more
interested in the colour combinations...than finnage at the
point.

[Foo Hong]

Roy,
What lah....just bcos I didnt pass you the female Mg plakat, you decided to find him a parttime girlfriend?

You will get veil like CT mostly and the colour will be mostly if not all red multicolours....'best' of both worlds. I think you win the guiness book of world record for this 'best betta pairing'....<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

[Myron Tay]

We can eliminate much of the guesswork about colour and finnage if with some genetic knowledge, we are able to see the spawn from which our breeders came from or knowing about the lineage of the bettas we use as breeders.

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by George Giang

For spawns, are they more geared towards the finnage of the male or the female? George

Trust this thread answers your question.

[chue xiong]

hi guys, as for my spawn that I was telling you guys about the cross with my plakat copper over HM male to my over HM green mask female. the result was very interesting. I got some nice white platnuims out of the same and the rest of the frys was green mask. just about my whole same was HM I had either 1 or 2 female that wasnt HM but looks like they might be once they are older. my females from this spawn are very nice. very even finnage and good branching. so what I believe is that they got the finnage like father and color like mother but dont forget that I have one more spawn from the same parents and will update on what colors i get. at first i thought it was suppose to be color like father and finnage like mother. but this pair was really hard to tell from as they both was even with finnage. I just wish i had some copper male and female out of this spawn.

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by chue xiong

hi guys, as for my spawn that I was telling you guys about the cross with my plakat copper over HM male to my over HM green mask female. the result was very interesting. I got some nice white platnuims out of the same and the rest of the frys was green mask. just about my whole same was HM I had either 1 or 2 female that wasnt HM but looks like they might be once they are older. my females from this spawn are very nice. very even finnage and good branching. so what I believe is that they got the finnage like father and color like mother but dont forget that I have one more spawn from the same parents and will update on what colors i get. at first i thought it was suppose to be color like father and finnage like mother. but this pair was really hard to tell from as they both was even with finnage. I just wish i had some copper male and female out of this spawn.
Difficult to make any conclusions from one or even two spawns. Just keep breeding away and see the conclusions (if any) that can be drawn after some more spawns.