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Jung
16th April 2002, 09:43 PM
Next in series: Sharing of discoveries from MG crosses!

Pls share: what have you guys got when you outcrossed MG to various other fish?

To start, here's Discovery 1):

MG x butterfly = majority of spawn show Vf. Many perfect/near butterflies.

Discovery 2):

You can get back the MG yellow bands in F2 (let's go for HMs through outcross! No more lousy flimsy deltas...forget abt what uncle says)

Discovery 3):

MG x almost any yellow line will give you not a single fish showing yellow! (Tried 3 spawns...all my newbie friends all got piles of free "MG Geno" fish <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>)

Foo Hong
17th April 2002, 01:06 AM
I share what I did with Uncle's line.

1. Line breed - some nice s/deltas. but for some reasons, never a HM. There is some very dominant genes that keep producing over-long finnage. Most the people who got the line thru me had same results. Gave up teh clean line.

2. Outcross to turq Hm line carrying marble n opaque genes n melano genes. F1 = rojak...lots of multis, a few non red turq which were nice as they picked up the mustard gene, a few melanos, and some silvery coloured. F2 I did a few combos liek what gilbert didto his orange/black line. The result, I got irids/white BF, some mustard gas reappear, some melanos, the rest multis.

3. back crossing 2. to 1. This is the one that upset me. best female from 2. [ 175 delta turq...clean n 8 rays ] breed to multi/mg geno 150 delta STM. Thot it would be a marriage made in heaven. Even some visiting Indonesians who saw the breeding pair wanted a call when the fries are grown up. Guess what, the entire spawn s finnage sucks. Only a few runts were raised and didnt spawn. I last posted some pics of males/females on bettahan, now deleted.

So.... after 1 years work I end up with nothing good to carry on. My conclusion, the mg line has some genetics that makes it quite diff to work on the form. I am re-starting the process next month, thanks to Maran for offering 2 mg females as my base to work on......have to get a HM mustard before Uncle does.

Chris Yew
17th April 2002, 08:04 AM
In order to carry out this experiment, the MG referred to here must be a true Uncle's MG bloodline and not something that purchased locally without knowing whether it has been outcrossed. Believed that MG itself does carry some kind of marble gene, therefore it's quite difficult to predict the outcome when outcross.

Chris Yew
http://bettasonli.netfirms.com


quote:
Next in series: Sharing of discoveries from MG crosses!

Pls share: what have you guys got when you outcrossed MG to various other fish?

To start, here's Discovery 1):

MG x butterfly = majority of spawn show Vf. Many perfect/near butterflies.

Discovery 2):

You can get back the MG yellow bands in F2 (let's go for HMs through outcross! No more lousy flimsy deltas...forget abt what uncle says)

Discovery 3):

MG x almost any yellow line will give you not a single fish showing yellow! (Tried 3 spawns...all my newbie friends all got piles of free "MG Geno" fish <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>)

Myron Tay
8th January 2003, 05:04 PM
Take a good look at Edwin's MG line: [:P]
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/photoalbum/Edwin/MGM6_L.jpg

Myron Tay
8th January 2003, 05:04 PM
Take a good look at Edwin's MG line: [:P]
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/photoalbum/Edwin/MGM6_L.jpg

Foo Hong
8th January 2003, 05:43 PM
cool colour!

Foo Hong
8th January 2003, 05:43 PM
cool colour!

Jonathan_Tan
19th January 2003, 01:19 AM
the intensity of the yellow looks orange...
but the finnage spread problem still exists...
but still a damn nice fish...

Jonathan_Tan
19th January 2003, 01:19 AM
the intensity of the yellow looks orange...
but the finnage spread problem still exists...
but still a damn nice fish...

ben fox wong
22nd February 2003, 01:54 AM
i have a spawn between Edwin's MG and Simon's Blue plakat. fries are about a month old. they show blue bodies with red fins. hope the colors will bloom up like the picture on top.

Question:
the bettas have 4 skin layers. irids/black/red/non-red. when the 1st layer of color is bred away, the color of the 2nd layer appears, right?

so which color layer is the MG? body is blue, fins are yellow. can the 1st layer co-exist with the 4th layer within the same fish when part of it has been bred away?

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Foo Hong
23rd February 2003, 03:27 AM
I think ur spawn is all multicolour not purple gas. The MG in Edwins pic is a gradual drakening as the fish grows.

The colours can coexist what...thats why u have the MG. Diff parts of teh body can have diff layers of colouring.

quote:Originally posted by ben fox wong

i have a spawn between Edwin's MG and Simon's Blue plakat. fries are about a month old. they show blue bodies with red fins. hope the colors will bloom up like the picture on top.

Question:
the bettas have 4 skin layers. irids/black/red/non-red. when the 1st layer of color is bred away, the color of the 2nd layer appears, right?

so which color layer is the MG? body is blue, fins are yellow. can the 1st layer co-exist with the 4th layer within the same fish when part of it has been bred away?

Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif DSCN0638a.jpg (http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/ben fox wong/20032222058_DSCN0638a.jpg)
71.86?KB

ben fox wong
23rd February 2003, 03:12 PM
cannot get MG but multicolor then so be it. it was never meant to be an intended spawn. the 1st blue pair of plakats wrapped but the female failed to release any eggs. so i used elimination to find out whether it was the male which couldnt wrap good enuf or the female was infertile. i had an MG female which had spawned before so i paired it with the male.

a lecturer once told us at the 1st day of orientation, if we didnt end up in the faculty we like; "if u cannot marry the woman u love, love the woman u marry". so if i cannot breed the fish i like, then i should like the fish i can breed. i believe this is a common frustration, that the pair u really like to spawn, cannot. but another pair which could, is not really the pair of choice.

Chris Yew
23rd February 2003, 08:36 PM
Haha, same here. So what I learnt is that love all woman! hehe.

quote:Originally posted by ben fox wong

a lecturer once told us at the 1st day of orientation, if we didnt end up in the faculty we like; "if u cannot marry the woman u love, love the woman u marry". so if i cannot breed the fish i like, then i should like the fish i can breed. i believe this is a common frustration, that the pair u really like to spawn, cannot. but another pair which could, is not really the pair of choice.

Steven Cheng
24th February 2003, 08:30 AM
Hi Benjamin,

Don't give up on your multis yet. Do a F2 and you might get 25% MGs.

ben fox wong
24th February 2003, 09:05 PM
Thanks for your encouragement Steven. just last night i went thru Chris's website, an article called Purple Gas by George. the breeder had a similar experiment of MG X Blue. he had majority 50% of blue with red wash, 25% blue with yellow wash & 25% purple with yellow wash. so there might be some chances.

Chris, i have no problem to love them all, difficult part is to get them to love back. haha.[8D]

Foo Hong
25th February 2003, 12:55 AM
when u say blue its is what blue ah?

quote:Originally posted by ben fox wong

Thanks for your encouragement Steven. just last night i went thru Chris's website, an article called Purple Gas by George. the breeder had a similar experiment of MG X Blue. he had majority 50% of blue with red wash, 25% blue with yellow wash & 25% purple with yellow wash. so there might be some chances.

Chris, i have no problem to love them all, difficult part is to get them to love back. haha.[8D]

ben fox wong
25th February 2003, 10:25 PM
http://www.mybetta.info/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=16&mode=thread&order=0

Acknowledgement : Bettas Onli Articles Page.

Scroll down to the bottom. George/Bobbi didnt post any pictures of this outcross - which they call "Purple Haze". but the blue is Royal Blue. They initially started with UJ's original Purple MG. But couldnt get purple in subsequent spawns. hence they outcrossed to a steel blue out of frustration.

i have seen MG CTs & MG plakats. since MG came from UJ, perhaps one can deduce that yellow CTs & yellow plakats were paired off with UJ MG. UJ MG's blue overlaid the yellow bodies. (MG X yellow = MG blue body). But in the case of MG X blue, the red genes were "woken up" in the tails (blue X MG = red tails).

unclejunkin
13th March 2003, 06:40 PM
quote:Originally posted by Foo Hong

I share what I did with Uncle's line.

1. Line breed - some nice s/deltas. but for some reasons, never a HM. There is some very dominant genes that keep producing over-long finnage. Most the people who got the line thru me had same results. Gave up teh clean line.

2. Outcross to turq Hm line carrying marble n opaque genes n melano genes. F1 = rojak...lots of multis, a few non red turq which were nice as they picked up the mustard gene, a few melanos, and some silvery coloured. F2 I did a few combos liek what gilbert didto his orange/black line. The result, I got irids/white BF, some mustard gas reappear, some melanos, the rest multis.

3. back crossing 2. to 1. This is the one that upset me. best female from 2. [ 175 delta turq...clean n 8 rays ] breed to multi/mg geno 150 delta STM. Thot it would be a marriage made in heaven. Even some visiting Indonesians who saw the breeding pair wanted a call when the fries are grown up. Guess what, the entire spawn s finnage sucks. Only a few runts were raised and didnt spawn. I last posted some pics of males/females on bettahan, now deleted.

So.... after 1 years work I end up with nothing good to carry on. My conclusion, the mg line has some genetics that makes it quite diff to work on the form. I am re-starting the process next month, thanks to Maran for offering 2 mg females as my base to work on......have to get a HM mustard before Uncle does.


Hi All,and Foo Hong

I just joined your Betta Forum. Sorry there is all ready a HM MG line{in 1999}.One day i will post pictures.
Thank You
Unclejunkin

Foo Hong
13th March 2003, 06:45 PM
Hi Jude,
welcome to our forum. We can't wait to see the HM mustard gas pic.....as only yours can be claimed to be Mustard Gas. I have not seen another line with comparable colour intensity as yours.

unclejunkin
13th March 2003, 06:55 PM
Hi Foo Hong,Thank You .I am trying figure out how to post on this board with out makeing a mess.Give a while to learn, how to work the board... I am a slow learner.
Unclejunkin

Chee Koon
14th March 2003, 09:18 AM
Uncle Junkin is here?? Omigosh!! As Foo Hong said, only yours can be claimed as true MG. Hope you can provide us some guidance concerning MG coloring which we can use as a benchmark.

Chris Yew
14th March 2003, 04:24 PM
Hi Jude,

Welcome on board! It shouldn't be too difficult to learn how to post here. Need to attach a pic, just click the paper clip below when you reply.

BTW, your new website pictures seem a bit too small and getting lesser. Juz my 2 cents...

quote:Originally posted by unclejunkin

Hi Foo Hong,Thank You .I am trying figure out how to post on this board with out makeing a mess.Give a while to learn, how to work the board... I am a slow learner.
Unclejunkin

Samuel Phan
14th March 2003, 04:55 PM
Welcome Uncle Junkin,

It is nice to have the MG creator on board.

Welcome again ...

With Best Regards,
Samuel Phan

Sebas
14th March 2003, 10:39 PM
Welcome Mr Jude, its an honour to have you here on the forum.

Phil
15th March 2003, 09:47 AM
Dear Jude,

A warm welcome to the BCS forum. My partner and I, from Exotic Bettas, owe our creation of the MGCT/PGCT to you. Without Foo Hong providing us with your MG line we would not have been able to create the Crowntail version of the MGs and PGs. Many Thanks.

cheers,
Phil

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Phil
15th March 2003, 09:55 AM
Sorry that was just our purple. Here's our MG CT


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Kelvin Tan
15th March 2003, 11:26 AM
a nicer mg ct
http://www.arofanatics.com/members/bettagrand/others/?return=/members/bettagrand/

ben fox wong
15th March 2003, 04:08 PM
saw some good MG CTs from Edwin at Derrick's house at CNY. maybe we can see at tomorrow's road show. Phil, are you bringing some?

ben fox wong
15th March 2003, 04:13 PM
if couldnt get a "paper clip" in "reply", can try "edit reply". the paper clip should show. that's how i attach a pic or smileys [33]

quote:Originally posted by Chris Yew

Hi Jude,

Welcome on board! It shouldn't be too difficult to learn how to post here. Need to attach a pic, just click the paper clip below when you reply.

BTW, your new website pictures seem a bit too small and getting lesser. Juz my 2 cents...

quote:Originally posted by unclejunkin

Hi Foo Hong,Thank You .I am trying figure out how to post on this board with out makeing a mess.Give a while to learn, how to work the board... I am a slow learner.
Unclejunkin

Phil
15th March 2003, 09:31 PM
I am bringing the ones that I have photographed

unclejunkin
16th March 2003, 04:38 AM
Hi All. Thank you all. I came to you forum to see if their is improvement in the betta world. As I can see OMG, I have to take my hat off to you, very GOOD!! Now I want to know, are your pairs breeding true??? Oh, I love the CT.
Thank You
Unclejunkin


quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

Dear Jude,

A warm welcome to the BCS forum. My partner and I, from Exotic Bettas, owe our creation of the MGCT/PGCT to you. Without Foo Hong providing us with your MG line we would not have been able to create the Crowntail version of the MGs and PGs. Many Thanks.

cheers,
Phil

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unclejunkin
16th March 2003, 04:52 AM
Hi .What color is this ???Is this a line??
Thank You
Unclejunkin

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

Take a good look at Edwin's MG line: [:P]
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/photoalbum/Edwin/MGM6_L.jpg

Myron Tay
16th March 2003, 10:13 PM
Hi. It is a line, though not sure whether one would call this Mustard Gas as it is not my speciality (I am only into reds), but this is Edwin Lim's line of fish. His line is actually quite famous in Singapore.

Edwin is a BCS committee member, though I don't think he visits this forum regularly.

quote:Originally posted by unclejunkin

Hi .What color is this ???Is this a line??
Thank You
Unclejunkin

Phil
17th March 2003, 07:27 AM
Dear Jude,

Thanks for the compliments. Yes our MGCT is breeding true 100%. But our PGCT (Purple Gas CT) still comes out a mixed batch. You can view more of the MGCTs in my BCS photo album under Phil Ngo or under http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aclassbetta/ In the latter you will have to join as a member first before gaining access to the group photo but membership is free to all.

cheers,
Phil
exoticbettas

Foo Hong
17th March 2003, 09:52 AM
Hi Uncle Junkin,
if I can add, since I am the 'culprit' who brought yr MG line into Singapore after we met in Oregon. If you could recall, its was a MG STM and a Red-multi STF[MG geno], which spawned to give MG, Red Multis and blacks.

Re Edwin Lim's pic of the DTM[purple body and orange fins]. They were descendants of your line of MG. I can confirm that as I traced the ancestry from breeder to breeder and found that they mapped back eventually to the pair I spawned.

Godfrey Chen
17th March 2003, 11:34 AM
Alot of MGs I see out there have dull brownish yellow or greenish yellow. Is there a way to cross it with another colour to enhance the yellow, and how many generations it roughly takes to stabilise the colours?

Phil
17th March 2003, 12:01 PM
I believe that you will have to devote a lot of hard work to get the clean yellow as well as the perfect MG. I have up till now still not been able to achieve my perfect MGCT or PGCT.

Foo Hong
17th March 2003, 12:05 PM
This is one area where we have to get Uncle Junkin 's comment/expertise.

quote:Originally posted by Godfrey Chen

Alot of MGs I see out there have dull brownish yellow or greenish yellow. Is there a way to cross it with another colour to enhance the yellow, and how many generations it roughly takes to stabilise the colours?

Chris Yew
17th March 2003, 12:54 PM
We can only guess unless Jude reveal what are the genes in his Mustard Gas.

Jude, care to reveal?

quote:Originally posted by Foo Hong

This is one area where we have to get Uncle Junkin 's comment/expertise.

quote:Originally posted by Godfrey Chen

Alot of MGs I see out there have dull brownish yellow or greenish yellow. Is there a way to cross it with another colour to enhance the yellow, and how many generations it roughly takes to stabilise the colours?

Kelvin Tan
19th March 2003, 09:58 AM
So Phil what did you use to outcross into MG to get MG CT? Share yr experimental results. F hong did mention that bcs has lots of members who does experiments and I am sure you are one of them and I belive that you would love to share with fellow members including UJ here.

Phil
19th March 2003, 04:13 PM
No problem. Choose those that develop rays both male and female. Are you aware that Jakarta water is so suited for crowntails that even HM sprout rays ? Well after years of hard work and several generations of choosing those with rays to breed with those with rays you get a CT. Not only for MG but for any breed. I have already made the job easier for Singapore by already introducing strains with 100% CT genes. I have also released a few females to selected people and they have been sucessful in breeding MGCTs.

Kelvin Tan
19th March 2003, 04:32 PM
So what color ct did you use to outcross?

Phil
19th March 2003, 04:33 PM
No out-crossing. Use MGs that develop rays.

Myron Tay
19th March 2003, 05:09 PM
Wow! Must be a long process right? How many generations over how long a period did it take for you to develop the MGCT?

quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

No out-crossing. Use MGs that develop rays.

Phil
19th March 2003, 05:28 PM
Its a really tedious process Myron, but rays do get longer when you do selective breeding. I think the key to the whole issue is to set your goals and work towards it. There is no short cuts. I really don't know how many generations but it was plentyful if you think that you keep breeding 5 similar pairs from your overall batch and cull the rest. Must say that my Louhans really grew fat.

Myron Tay
19th March 2003, 05:38 PM
People are you listening? You heard it from the shifu. It is perserverence, guys! The long haul. Determination. Hard Work. There is no other way.

quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

Its a really tedious process Myron, but rays do get longer when you do selective breeding. I think the key to the whole issue is to set your goals and work towards it. There is no short cuts. I really don't know how many generations but it was plentyful if you think that you keep breeding 5 similar pairs from your overall batch and cull the rest. Must say that my Louhans really grew fat.

Phil
19th March 2003, 05:49 PM
Myron thanks for the compliment, but the credit really should go to my partner at Exotic Bettas -Indrata. He was the really dedicated guy. Quite like our own FH when it comes to betta breeding. I only provided most of the morale support and Kay Poeism.

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

People are you listening? You heard it from the shifu. It is perserverence, guys! The long haul. Determination. Hard Work. There is no other way.

quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

Its a really tedious process Myron, but rays do get longer when you do selective breeding. I think the key to the whole issue is to set your goals and work towards it. There is no short cuts. I really don't know how many generations but it was plentyful if you think that you keep breeding 5 similar pairs from your overall batch and cull the rest. Must say that my Louhans really grew fat.

Foo Hong
19th March 2003, 06:29 PM
Wow ! From ray-less till rays! Hats off to you guys.

I am sure it took Uncle Junkin an equally awful lot of work to arrive at his MG line. UJ, still awaiting for your pic of the MG HM
and the story of the MG :)

Phil
20th March 2003, 08:22 AM
FH, I believe that this is one reason why we have been able to achieve the 100% MGCT results. We kept the line as pure as possible. Thanks to Uncle Jude. Our problem, however, is that we have been working on finnage but not the color of the fish. It's a Hobson's choice.

unclejunkin
27th March 2003, 04:56 AM
Hi All ,A lot of you answers are in these chat rooms.What is a MG and the line of Oranges.The bettasplendens group has a lot of info.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bettageneticallyspeaking
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bettasplendens/

unclejunkin
27th March 2003, 04:56 AM
Hi All ,A lot of you answers are in these chat rooms.What is a MG and the line of Oranges.The bettasplendens group has a lot of info.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bettageneticallyspeaking
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bettasplendens/

Kelvin Tan
27th March 2003, 10:59 AM
quote:Originally posted by unclejunkin

Hi All ,A lot of you answers are in these chat rooms.What is a MG and the line of Oranges.The bettasplendens group has a lot of info.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bettageneticallyspeaking
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bettasplendens/
[eb]

Kelvin Tan
27th March 2003, 10:59 AM
quote:Originally posted by unclejunkin

Hi All ,A lot of you answers are in these chat rooms.What is a MG and the line of Oranges.The bettasplendens group has a lot of info.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bettageneticallyspeaking
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bettasplendens/
[eb]

Phil
27th March 2003, 04:08 PM
This is the latest MGCT that I had brought back to Singapore, its about 5 mths old now. I took the picture of the fish only today, since the new owner has left it in my care for this week. It was sold earlier in the month. Hope you guys like it. Colour still not perfect but closing in.


quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

FH, I believe that this is one reason why we have been able to achieve the 100% MGCT results. We kept the line as pure as possible. Thanks to Uncle Jude. Our problem, however, is that we have been working on finnage but not the color of the fish. It's a Hobson's choice.


Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif P3270108.jpg (http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/phil ngo/200332716721_P3270108.jpg)
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Phil
27th March 2003, 04:08 PM
This is the latest MGCT that I had brought back to Singapore, its about 5 mths old now. I took the picture of the fish only today, since the new owner has left it in my care for this week. It was sold earlier in the month. Hope you guys like it. Colour still not perfect but closing in.


quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

FH, I believe that this is one reason why we have been able to achieve the 100% MGCT results. We kept the line as pure as possible. Thanks to Uncle Jude. Our problem, however, is that we have been working on finnage but not the color of the fish. It's a Hobson's choice.


Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif P3270108.jpg (http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/phil ngo/200332716721_P3270108.jpg)
13.66KB

Kelvin Tan
27th March 2003, 06:24 PM
actually i am curious cos you mentioned its the water in indonesia that led to them having longer rays and you worked on from there. but the thing is, how can external factors such as water, affect the genes in such a way that the rays become longer.

i mean if i use the same pairs as you have chosen that develped rays in indo water, and spawn them in singapore, i will be unable to spot the rays growing right?

so theoretically speaking, if i chose the exact fishes and future generations that you chose, but spawned them in singapore, I would be unable to get ct mg right?

Kelvin Tan
27th March 2003, 06:24 PM
actually i am curious cos you mentioned its the water in indonesia that led to them having longer rays and you worked on from there. but the thing is, how can external factors such as water, affect the genes in such a way that the rays become longer.

i mean if i use the same pairs as you have chosen that develped rays in indo water, and spawn them in singapore, i will be unable to spot the rays growing right?

so theoretically speaking, if i chose the exact fishes and future generations that you chose, but spawned them in singapore, I would be unable to get ct mg right?

Phil
27th March 2003, 06:42 PM
Not all bettas will develop rays, but I did noticed that those like Leng Lim's red develop rays much more easily. I did work on those as well previously but only for the DTCT. I would say that Indon water encourages rays development, but You will still have to pick out those with the right triats and work on it.

Phil
27th March 2003, 06:42 PM
Not all bettas will develop rays, but I did noticed that those like Leng Lim's red develop rays much more easily. I did work on those as well previously but only for the DTCT. I would say that Indon water encourages rays development, but You will still have to pick out those with the right triats and work on it.

Dr Hsu
27th March 2003, 07:16 PM
I think I read that Dr Gene Lucas believes that CT is not a point mutation but the extreme expression of combtail traits. As we all know, combtail has been around for a long time - long enough to be put in as a fault in IBC standards.... - and thus it would seem that the Indonesians have just done very well in selective breeding - perhaps helped by their water which would "exaggerate" the trait so that it is more easily selected for.

Of course, this is all just my conjecture. To hear what "God" has to say about the genetics of crowntail, we can all attend his coming scientific presentation at Aquarama. Full registration for the scientific conference is $$$$$$ but I am working with them to see if we (BCS) can get tickets for one session - the one with the Crowntail genetics presentation. Will keep you informed.

Dr Hsu
27th March 2003, 07:16 PM
I think I read that Dr Gene Lucas believes that CT is not a point mutation but the extreme expression of combtail traits. As we all know, combtail has been around for a long time - long enough to be put in as a fault in IBC standards.... - and thus it would seem that the Indonesians have just done very well in selective breeding - perhaps helped by their water which would "exaggerate" the trait so that it is more easily selected for.

Of course, this is all just my conjecture. To hear what "God" has to say about the genetics of crowntail, we can all attend his coming scientific presentation at Aquarama. Full registration for the scientific conference is $$$$$$ but I am working with them to see if we (BCS) can get tickets for one session - the one with the Crowntail genetics presentation. Will keep you informed.

Kelvin Tan
27th March 2003, 07:58 PM
what are the other presentations? maybe poll for the best one which we think we can learn from....

limited ppl interested in ct but i guess able to meet someone researching full time in betta is cool too.

Kelvin Tan
27th March 2003, 07:58 PM
what are the other presentations? maybe poll for the best one which we think we can learn from....

limited ppl interested in ct but i guess able to meet someone researching full time in betta is cool too.

Dr Hsu
27th March 2003, 09:50 PM
I haven't found out what the other presentation in the same session are but I will post info when everything is finalized.

Dr Hsu
27th March 2003, 09:50 PM
I haven't found out what the other presentation in the same session are but I will post info when everything is finalized.

Kelvin Tan
28th March 2003, 09:14 AM
quote:Originally posted by Dr Hsu

I haven't found out what the other presentation in the same session are but I will post info when everything is finalized.
[tx]

Kelvin Tan
28th March 2003, 09:14 AM
quote:Originally posted by Dr Hsu

I haven't found out what the other presentation in the same session are but I will post info when everything is finalized.
[tx]

Phil
29th March 2003, 02:29 PM
Hi Guys, Thought I should let you know that the owner of the MGCT betta, (Picture I posted on this thread on 27 Mar) has reported that the betta came in 1st at Betta Kingdom's Competition today. He won a $100/-. He purchased the fish from me at $80/- and hence is $20/- richer and now has a free fish.

Phil
29th March 2003, 02:29 PM
Hi Guys, Thought I should let you know that the owner of the MGCT betta, (Picture I posted on this thread on 27 Mar) has reported that the betta came in 1st at Betta Kingdom's Competition today. He won a $100/-. He purchased the fish from me at $80/- and hence is $20/- richer and now has a free fish.

Phil
31st March 2003, 09:37 AM
Oops!... Malcom just told me that he won $200/- prize money and trophy with the MGCT hence he is $120/- richer....[col]
Oop! Malcom called me again to tell that his total prize money was $400/-. It was the best in the CT section.

quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

Hi Guys, Thought I should let you know that the owner of the MGCT betta, (Picture I posted on this thread on 27 Mar) has reported that the betta came in 1st at Betta Kingdom's Competition today. He won a $100/-. He purchased the fish from me at $80/- and hence is $20/- richer and now has a free fish.

Phil
31st March 2003, 09:37 AM
Oops!... Malcom just told me that he won $200/- prize money and trophy with the MGCT hence he is $120/- richer....[col]
Oop! Malcom called me again to tell that his total prize money was $400/-. It was the best in the CT section.

quote:Originally posted by Phil Ngo

Hi Guys, Thought I should let you know that the owner of the MGCT betta, (Picture I posted on this thread on 27 Mar) has reported that the betta came in 1st at Betta Kingdom's Competition today. He won a $100/-. He purchased the fish from me at $80/- and hence is $20/- richer and now has a free fish.

Kelvin Tan
31st March 2003, 09:52 AM
WOW...well done Phil!! also must congratulate F hong and Uncle Junkin and also yr helpers in Indonesia for the job well done!! You make BCS proud cos you must be the only winner from the bcs committee. Too bad you didnt let this fish take part in bcs competition (or did you? not sure) otherwise it would fare very well. Nearly won grand champion! wow....

Kelvin Tan
31st March 2003, 09:52 AM
WOW...well done Phil!! also must congratulate F hong and Uncle Junkin and also yr helpers in Indonesia for the job well done!! You make BCS proud cos you must be the only winner from the bcs committee. Too bad you didnt let this fish take part in bcs competition (or did you? not sure) otherwise it would fare very well. Nearly won grand champion! wow....

Toh Chen Han
31st March 2003, 12:46 PM
phil, that was a very beautiful fish I must say...no surprise that your customer would have been pleased regardless of the competition result.

are you working on any other variations of MG? mg x imbellis?

Toh Chen Han
31st March 2003, 12:46 PM
phil, that was a very beautiful fish I must say...no surprise that your customer would have been pleased regardless of the competition result.

are you working on any other variations of MG? mg x imbellis?

Phil
31st March 2003, 03:45 PM
Thanks, I am trying to work on another variations within the MG, like the MG yellow. but will need to strengthen the finnage first as the yellow finnage tends to be fairly thin vis-a-vis the MG. Have not gone into imbellis yet.

quote:Originally posted by tohchenhan

phil, that was a very beautiful fish I must say...no surprise that your customer would have been pleased regardless of the competition result.

are you working on any other variations of MG? mg x imbellis?

Phil
31st March 2003, 03:45 PM
Thanks, I am trying to work on another variations within the MG, like the MG yellow. but will need to strengthen the finnage first as the yellow finnage tends to be fairly thin vis-a-vis the MG. Have not gone into imbellis yet.

quote:Originally posted by tohchenhan

phil, that was a very beautiful fish I must say...no surprise that your customer would have been pleased regardless of the competition result.

are you working on any other variations of MG? mg x imbellis?

Chia Kah Kheng
31st March 2003, 08:12 PM
I had tried MG female X Copper male. Crappy multi colour with irid. Got a few Cambodian with pretty nice finage, tried to spawn them but unsuccessful, should try again to see wht the F2 will be like.

Chia Kah Kheng
31st March 2003, 08:12 PM
I had tried MG female X Copper male. Crappy multi colour with irid. Got a few Cambodian with pretty nice finage, tried to spawn them but unsuccessful, should try again to see wht the F2 will be like.

Toh Chen Han
1st April 2003, 01:56 AM
I once thought of doing a cross between a greenblue imbellis with MG plakat. Didn't in the end but wondering what would have happened.

Toh Chen Han
1st April 2003, 01:56 AM
I once thought of doing a cross between a greenblue imbellis with MG plakat. Didn't in the end but wondering what would have happened.

Chee Koon
3rd April 2003, 11:59 AM
wah..u guys really adventurous! good luck to all! :)

for me, think the current ultimate goal is to produce a higher % of MGHMs with better color resembling their original forefathers.

Chee Koon
3rd April 2003, 11:59 AM
wah..u guys really adventurous! good luck to all! :)

for me, think the current ultimate goal is to produce a higher % of MGHMs with better color resembling their original forefathers.

heemeng
4th April 2003, 12:10 AM
Hi

**** Koon, trying to achieve similar goal here. I currently have a RB HM x MG spawn growing. Today just spawn a turquoise HM x same MG female. Can't wait to do F2 to see how they turn out. Wat abt you? What have u tried so far and how're the results?

Rgds

heemeng
4th April 2003, 12:10 AM
Hi

**** Koon, trying to achieve similar goal here. I currently have a RB HM x MG spawn growing. Today just spawn a turquoise HM x same MG female. Can't wait to do F2 to see how they turn out. Wat abt you? What have u tried so far and how're the results?

Rgds

derrick kuah
4th April 2003, 12:45 AM
hi ,
heemeng,unless you are looking for salamander,why irees x mg?i have that before . the f2 ,i cross to a yellow , i got back 20% yellow,20%mg ,some sala and rest cambodia.I was desperate to get back my yellow cos my male is infertile.

derrick kuah
4th April 2003, 12:45 AM
hi ,
heemeng,unless you are looking for salamander,why irees x mg?i have that before . the f2 ,i cross to a yellow , i got back 20% yellow,20%mg ,some sala and rest cambodia.I was desperate to get back my yellow cos my male is infertile.

Chee Koon
4th April 2003, 11:33 AM
heemeng, have to salute you! for me, still dun have the courage to do outcrossing to the irids. tempted to do so but no plan yet. got one totoro female waiting but guess the plan gotta postpone as for now. another option is to outcross with Thai's MG. their finnage are strong but lack the brilliance yellow of a true MG. to outcross or not to outcross...LOL

Chee Koon
4th April 2003, 11:33 AM
heemeng, have to salute you! for me, still dun have the courage to do outcrossing to the irids. tempted to do so but no plan yet. got one totoro female waiting but guess the plan gotta postpone as for now. another option is to outcross with Thai's MG. their finnage are strong but lack the brilliance yellow of a true MG. to outcross or not to outcross...LOL

Chee Koon
4th April 2003, 11:35 AM
derrick, thanks for the info. will not attemp crossing wif yellow. btw, u used which yellow line?

Chee Koon
4th April 2003, 11:35 AM
derrick, thanks for the info. will not attemp crossing wif yellow. btw, u used which yellow line?

derrick kuah
4th April 2003, 01:58 PM
I used tk lee aoc champion line. the male ,not fertile, no chioce ,have to work the long way. thanks

derrick kuah
4th April 2003, 01:58 PM
I used tk lee aoc champion line. the male ,not fertile, no chioce ,have to work the long way. thanks

heemeng
4th April 2003, 04:33 PM
hi

Derrick, by salamander, u mean F1? I was actually hoping to get HM MG back via F2s, with my limited knowledge in viable outcrosses for MGs. MGs with gd finnage are difficult to find also.

Rgds

heemeng
4th April 2003, 04:33 PM
hi

Derrick, by salamander, u mean F1? I was actually hoping to get HM MG back via F2s, with my limited knowledge in viable outcrosses for MGs. MGs with gd finnage are difficult to find also.

Rgds

Chris Yew
4th April 2003, 04:39 PM
I've tried outcrossing MG with other color but in the spawn, I still get back certain percentage with MG color.

Chris Yew
4th April 2003, 04:39 PM
I've tried outcrossing MG with other color but in the spawn, I still get back certain percentage with MG color.

WilliamTan
4th April 2003, 06:02 PM
quote:Originally posted by Chris Yew

I've tried outcrossing MG with other color but in the spawn, I still get back certain percentage with MG color.


Hi Chris,

May I know whether u used an MG male or a female for the crossing. I am also thinking of crossing a Royal Blue male to a MG female but heard so much that it will give multi colour that i dare not spawn them.

WilliamTan
4th April 2003, 06:02 PM
quote:Originally posted by Chris Yew

I've tried outcrossing MG with other color but in the spawn, I still get back certain percentage with MG color.


Hi Chris,

May I know whether u used an MG male or a female for the crossing. I am also thinking of crossing a Royal Blue male to a MG female but heard so much that it will give multi colour that i dare not spawn them.

heemeng
4th April 2003, 06:17 PM
Hi William,

Yes, most of them would be multicolors. In fact, the current RBMale x MGFemale fries I have are all multicolors with curved tail traits [eb]. You will get some MGs back in F2 when crossing them back.

Rgds

heemeng
4th April 2003, 06:17 PM
Hi William,

Yes, most of them would be multicolors. In fact, the current RBMale x MGFemale fries I have are all multicolors with curved tail traits [eb]. You will get some MGs back in F2 when crossing them back.

Rgds

derrick kuah
4th April 2003, 06:59 PM
Heemeng ,yes ,the f1 , and you can get them back by crossing f1 xf1.
ck , you posted ,you have a totoroi female ,may i know from whom you get them.
thanks derrick++

derrick kuah
4th April 2003, 06:59 PM
Heemeng ,yes ,the f1 , and you can get them back by crossing f1 xf1.
ck , you posted ,you have a totoroi female ,may i know from whom you get them.
thanks derrick++

Chris Yew
4th April 2003, 08:39 PM
Hi William,
I usually use the MG Male.

quote:Originally posted by WilliamTan

quote:Originally posted by Chris Yew

I've tried outcrossing MG with other color but in the spawn, I still get back certain percentage with MG color.


Hi Chris,

May I know whether u used an MG male or a female for the crossing. I am also thinking of crossing a Royal Blue male to a MG female but heard so much that it will give multi colour that i dare not spawn them.

Chris Yew
4th April 2003, 08:39 PM
Hi William,
I usually use the MG Male.

quote:Originally posted by WilliamTan

quote:Originally posted by Chris Yew

I've tried outcrossing MG with other color but in the spawn, I still get back certain percentage with MG color.


Hi Chris,

May I know whether u used an MG male or a female for the crossing. I am also thinking of crossing a Royal Blue male to a MG female but heard so much that it will give multi colour that i dare not spawn them.

Chee Koon
5th April 2003, 12:20 PM
derrick...acquired from a fren who got it from malaysia. which state or breeder?? i really dunno.

Chee Koon
5th April 2003, 12:20 PM
derrick...acquired from a fren who got it from malaysia. which state or breeder?? i really dunno.

Chee Koon
5th April 2003, 12:21 PM
quote:Originally posted by heemeng

Hi William,

Yes, most of them would be multicolors. In fact, the current RBMale x MGFemale fries I have are all multicolors with curved tail traits [eb]. You will get some MGs back in F2 when crossing them back.

Rgds


good luck to you! nice offspring, let me know, i am interested [ag]

Chee Koon
5th April 2003, 12:21 PM
quote:Originally posted by heemeng

Hi William,

Yes, most of them would be multicolors. In fact, the current RBMale x MGFemale fries I have are all multicolors with curved tail traits [eb]. You will get some MGs back in F2 when crossing them back.

Rgds


good luck to you! nice offspring, let me know, i am interested [ag]

Foo Hong
5th April 2003, 08:41 PM
Whether u use a MG male or MG female u will get red multicolours in the F1 if your crossing to steel, blue, turq, grizzles. U cant get yellow multis[MG] in the F1 unless the outcrossed colour contain yellow genes same as the MG. I ve done it 2 times n thats what I got just to confirm.

The fustrating part is at the F2 in both cases, the nicer fishes went back to the irids or red multis. which means u need to continue working along for a while until u get yr ideal fish. Its just as diff as working a 16 ray black HM by crossing an poor finnage black male to a steel female initially to start yr line.

Have considered crossing to thai MGs, but not confident on the colour which I suspect could very well be diluted big time. Also an initial cross of UJ MG to Thai MG may give 50/50 red multis/yellow multis. just like yellow x yellow may not give u 100% yellow if they are diff lines
quote:Originally posted by WilliamTan

quote:Originally posted by Chris Yew

I've tried outcrossing MG with other color but in the spawn, I still get back certain percentage with MG color.


Hi Chris,

May I know whether u used an MG male or a female for the crossing. I am also thinking of crossing a Royal Blue male to a MG female but heard so much that it will give multi colour that i dare not spawn them.

Foo Hong
5th April 2003, 08:41 PM
Whether u use a MG male or MG female u will get red multicolours in the F1 if your crossing to steel, blue, turq, grizzles. U cant get yellow multis[MG] in the F1 unless the outcrossed colour contain yellow genes same as the MG. I ve done it 2 times n thats what I got just to confirm.

The fustrating part is at the F2 in both cases, the nicer fishes went back to the irids or red multis. which means u need to continue working along for a while until u get yr ideal fish. Its just as diff as working a 16 ray black HM by crossing an poor finnage black male to a steel female initially to start yr line.

Have considered crossing to thai MGs, but not confident on the colour which I suspect could very well be diluted big time. Also an initial cross of UJ MG to Thai MG may give 50/50 red multis/yellow multis. just like yellow x yellow may not give u 100% yellow if they are diff lines
quote:Originally posted by WilliamTan

quote:Originally posted by Chris Yew

I've tried outcrossing MG with other color but in the spawn, I still get back certain percentage with MG color.


Hi Chris,

May I know whether u used an MG male or a female for the crossing. I am also thinking of crossing a Royal Blue male to a MG female but heard so much that it will give multi colour that i dare not spawn them.

derrick kuah
6th April 2003, 12:46 AM
yes foo hong is right , for f1 , i get most multi, but a few salamandwer, irres body with red finnages. i used the good finnages fish ,to cross to my yellow.thanks

derrick kuah
6th April 2003, 12:46 AM
yes foo hong is right , for f1 , i get most multi, but a few salamandwer, irres body with red finnages. i used the good finnages fish ,to cross to my yellow.thanks

WilliamTan
7th April 2003, 12:16 PM
Hi all,

Many thanks for the advice. Will try to do the spawn as i have a good finnage RBmale and then try the sibling pairing and find out the results. hopefully can improve on the finnage of the MGs I have.

Chee Koon
8th April 2003, 05:30 PM
derrick,

pls correct me if i am wrong but i believe we should have a correct understanding on the term - salamander. this name was used by marianne to refer to her outcross of UJ's MG to a marble female. the F1 throwed a few multis, green MG as well as some purple MG. she referred all these fishes as "salamander" regardless of the color combination.

but the thais misunderstood this term and used it to refer ONLY to multis from a MG (or MG geno) spawn. some even referred sala as multis from any kind of spawn.

i have encountered some problem with this term. everytime i want to sell my sala, some ppl would give a funny impression that I am selling him Multis instead MG color bettas. That's why I call my Sala as Sala MG. i believe maran and edwin are doing the same. so can we have a common understanding on the correct usage of "salamander" as well as "MG"?

someone mentioned before that term MG can ONLY be use EXCLUSIVELY for fishes bought directly from UJ. so my question is....how about the rest? how about the subsequent spawns from the initial pair? how about the outcrosses thereafter?

derrick kuah
8th April 2003, 06:29 PM
Ck , thanks your highlight. I also don,t know what is what.getting verg very blur...r
mine ,is the same as your , and i think should call them as mg sala....in case ,get"sue" by marianne.ha .ha .thanks one again..
thanks and regards Derrick++

Chris Yew
8th April 2003, 08:46 PM
HI **** Koon,
That question on the term MG is best left for Jude to answer. But from what I understand (correct me if I'm wrong Jude)is that the term Mustard Gas was first used by other breeders even though the fish was not from Jude. So later they start using the initial MG instead of Mustard Gas. But I think recently I've also seen the initial MG in Jude's website.

quote:Originally posted by **** Koon

derrick,

pls correct me if i am wrong but i believe we should have a correct understanding on the term - salamander. this name was used by marianne to refer to her outcross of UJ's MG to a marble female. the F1 throwed a few multis, green MG as well as some purple MG. she referred all these fishes as "salamander" regardless of the color combination.

but the thais misunderstood this term and used it to refer ONLY to multis from a MG (or MG geno) spawn. some even referred sala as multis from any kind of spawn.

i have encountered some problem with this term. everytime i want to sell my sala, some ppl would give a funny impression that I am selling him Multis instead MG color bettas. That's why I call my Sala as Sala MG. i believe maran and edwin are doing the same. so can we have a common understanding on the correct usage of "salamander" as well as "MG"?

someone mentioned before that term MG can ONLY be use EXCLUSIVELY for fishes bought directly from UJ. so my question is....how about the rest? how about the subsequent spawns from the initial pair? how about the outcrosses thereafter?

Chee Koon
10th April 2003, 06:23 PM
derrick,

ha..ha.. me at first also blur-blur. saw a lot of aquabid postings using this term - salamander and i tot it's Sala from Bcbetta. unfortunately, found that it's USUALLY referred to MULTIs. Maybe by adding this term, the fishes will sell well[ag]

hope you can feed us more information regarding yr exp on MG venture. want to learn a lot from u too!

cheers!

quote:Originally posted by Chris Yew

HI **** Koon,
That question on the term MG is best left for Jude to answer. But from what I understand (correct me if I'm wrong Jude)is that the term Mustard Gas was first used by other breeders even though the fish was not from Jude. So later they start using the initial MG instead of Mustard Gas. But I think recently I've also seen the initial MG in Jude's website.

quote:Originally posted by **** Koon

derrick,

pls correct me if i am wrong but i believe we should have a correct understanding on the term - salamander. this name was used by marianne to refer to her outcross of UJ's MG to a marble female. the F1 throwed a few multis, green MG as well as some purple MG. she referred all these fishes as "salamander" regardless of the color combination.

but the thais misunderstood this term and used it to refer ONLY to multis from a MG (or MG geno) spawn. some even referred sala as multis from any kind of spawn.

i have encountered some problem with this term. everytime i want to sell my sala, some ppl would give a funny impression that I am selling him Multis instead MG color bettas. That's why I call my Sala as Sala MG. i believe maran and edwin are doing the same. so can we have a common understanding on the correct usage of "salamander" as well as "MG"?

someone mentioned before that term MG can ONLY be use EXCLUSIVELY for fishes bought directly from UJ. so my question is....how about the rest? how about the subsequent spawns from the initial pair? how about the outcrosses thereafter?

Chee Koon
10th April 2003, 06:25 PM
chris,

yealoh...unlce should be able to provide a good answer but didn't see him lately in this forum. maybe busy breeding his MGs!~:D

-- edited (too many quotes) ----

Lim Aik Seng
13th April 2003, 06:32 PM
hihi
a newbie here
gt a ques to ask
how many % of MG can i gt if both male and female is MG

Chee Koon
14th April 2003, 10:42 AM
lim,

if 100% MG x 100MG ...sure 100% MG fry lah! unless the seller lied to u.

Chris Yew
14th April 2003, 10:43 AM
And of course what **** Koon means by 100%MG means no outcrossed before right?

Chee Koon
14th April 2003, 11:51 AM
chris!! LOL...that's why i am concerned about the term MG. when ppl mentioned MG...we need to further verify whether it's 100% MG or not. have to tell the whole story, from F1 until F10 spawn just to sell a current spawn. if outcrosses, what do we call that? ha..ha..still knocking my head to find a term for it. "Sala MG" should be the correct term?

so, chris, any advice on this issue??

Chris Yew
14th April 2003, 01:08 PM
Ha **** Koon, you set me thinking during lunch. Saw the drink stall and give me something to wonder. Maybe if it's not outcrossed and 100%pure, we can call it 100% Pure MG (no outcrossed) lol! Juz like the 100% Pure Sugar Cane Juice (no sugar and water added)!

But I think unless we are getting direct from Jude, there's really no telling whether it has been outcrossed before unless every breeder will to tell you it's family tree.

quote:Originally posted by **** Koon

chris!! LOL...that's why i am concerned about the term MG. when ppl mentioned MG...we need to further verify whether it's 100% MG or not. have to tell the whole story, from F1 until F10 spawn just to sell a current spawn. if outcrosses, what do we call that? ha..ha..still knocking my head to find a term for it. "Sala MG" should be the correct term?

so, chris, any advice on this issue??

Chee Koon
15th April 2003, 04:54 PM
LOL..chris ah...that term very looooong leh. (Hun-dred-per-cent-m-g-no-out-cross-ed). actually very hard to define which fish is pure MG or not because imho, i believe UJ also do outcrosses to sustain his line of MG. if not, then his fish will be too inbred by now, rite Uncle?

Lim Aik Seng
15th April 2003, 09:07 PM
is ( chris tew ) the uncle u all are talking abt???????

Foo Hong
16th April 2003, 01:22 AM
Think ur rite. salas were used to distinguish MG from BCbetta n those from UJ, eventhough the bcbetta n UJ bettas I believe from same ancestry. UJ can correct this if wrong.[be]

Basically the idea was probably to distingish fishes raised/worked on by diff breeders. As I always relate breeding to cooking....same ingredients but diff cook give you diff food quality. so all the chicken rice dont really taste the same.:D

quote:Originally posted by **** Koon

derrick,

ha..ha.. me at first also blur-blur. saw a lot of aquabid postings using this term - salamander and i tot it's Sala from Bcbetta. unfortunately, found that it's USUALLY referred to MULTIs. Maybe by adding this term, the fishes will sell well[ag]

hope you can feed us more information regarding yr exp on MG venture. want to learn a lot from u too!

cheers!

quote:Originally posted by Chris Yew

HI **** Koon,
That question on the term MG is best left for Jude to answer. But from what I understand (correct me if I'm wrong Jude)is that the term Mustard Gas was first used by other breeders even though the fish was not from Jude. So later they start using the initial MG instead of Mustard Gas. But I think recently I've also seen the initial MG in Jude's website.

quote:Originally posted by **** Koon

derrick,

pls correct me if i am wrong but i believe we should have a correct understanding on the term - salamander. this name was used by marianne to refer to her outcross of UJ's MG to a marble female. the F1 throwed a few multis, green MG as well as some purple MG. she referred all these fishes as "salamander" regardless of the color combination.

but the thais misunderstood this term and used it to refer ONLY to multis from a MG (or MG geno) spawn. some even referred sala as multis from any kind of spawn.

i have encountered some problem with this term. everytime i want to sell my sala, some ppl would give a funny impression that I am selling him Multis instead MG color bettas. That's why I call my Sala as Sala MG. i believe maran and edwin are doing the same. so can we have a common understanding on the correct usage of "salamander" as well as "MG"?

someone mentioned before that term MG can ONLY be use EXCLUSIVELY for fishes bought directly from UJ. so my question is....how about the rest? how about the subsequent spawns from the initial pair? how about the outcrosses thereafter?

Chee Koon
16th April 2003, 10:33 AM
soli...chris not that old lah..LOL..."Uncle" was referred to UNCLE JUNKIN.

Chee Koon
16th April 2003, 10:35 AM
foo hong, guess the term salamander seemed so "powerful". even the thais has been using that to sell their fishes but I really wonder if they really bought it from bcbetta or not. anyway tis is just a general remark. maybe they really bought the first parents from bcbetta.

derrick kuah
16th April 2003, 07:59 PM
Foo hong , i think you are right ,sala and mg .almost the same. Just got one from bc last week.colour very strong like uj. passed to edwin ,to improve his line.

Foo Hong
17th April 2003, 12:07 AM
hahaha.....the thais are a little messy in their terms, they r still wrongly calling some HMs fullmoon[those HM carrying DT].

Alamak Derrick why u didnt pass to me? kekekeke
I cull all the MG Edwin passed me[MG or PG], leaving me with only ONE MALE to use, on gud friday...into the breeding tank he will go along with an outcross red-multi female carrying the MG gene[UJ's MG gene]. This girl is the only 1 fish I am using from the outcross line of about 100 fishes to back-cross to the UJ MG line. I hope she doesnt dissapoint me. Oh and she is a HM phenol.....yeah phenol with a D tail....I havent seen a nicer MG geno female so far in my stocks so far....but she will only have 2 more days to look this way before her mate wacks her....kekeke. unfortunately the male is only 120 SD but has reasonable potential n fantastic colour..... This is my dont-know how many attempts on MG outcrosses already.

time to visit kuan yin mah and pray!

Lim Aik Seng
17th April 2003, 09:09 AM
quote:Originally posted by Foo Hong

hahaha.....the thais are a little messy in their terms, they r still wrongly calling some HMs fullmoon[those HM carrying DT].

Alamak Derrick why u didnt pass to me? kekekeke
I cull all the MG Edwin passed me[MG or PG], leaving me with only ONE MALE to use, on gud friday...into the breeding tank he will go along with an outcross red-multi female carrying the MG gene[UJ's MG gene]. This girl is the only 1 fish I am using from the outcross line of about 100 fishes to back-cross to the UJ MG line. I hope she doesnt dissapoint me. Oh and she is a HM phenol.....yeah phenol with a D tail....I havent seen a nicer MG geno female so far in my stocks so far....but she will only have 2 more days to look this way before her mate wacks her....kekeke. unfortunately the male is only 120 SD but has reasonable potential n fantastic colour..... This is my dont-know how many attempts on MG outcrosses already.

time to visit kuan yin mah and pray!


oh no u cull them
u shd have gave me
hahaha [bh][bh][bh][bh]

unclejunkin
26th April 2003, 10:29 AM
Hi All, I am not breeding at the moment.MG(Mustard Gas)(TM)PG(Purple Gas).MG+MG=100% any thing else is a multi. BC Betta has been using MG and PG to sell her fish, although I told her 4 years ago to stop using my name to sell her fish. She continued despite the warnings. Now the gene has been diluted so much that only a few people are breeding the true MG. If your MG breeds 100%, then it's an MG. Otherwise, you have been duped. There is no red in MG, none at all. MG is a formula of 13 years worth of work. Sorry to see what has become of it. I've left a lot of information on the yahoo betta chat room and the genetic archives. I would suggest to all breeders, name your strains and keep a good genetic log. Most of what I'm saying right now and most of what I've said before is written in these chat rooms. I will come back to check on this chat room to see how everyone's doing.

Thank You
Uncle Junkin

unclejunkin
26th April 2003, 10:29 AM
Hi All, I am not breeding at the moment.MG(Mustard Gas)(TM)PG(Purple Gas).MG+MG=100% any thing else is a multi. BC Betta has been using MG and PG to sell her fish, although I told her 4 years ago to stop using my name to sell her fish. She continued despite the warnings. Now the gene has been diluted so much that only a few people are breeding the true MG. If your MG breeds 100%, then it's an MG. Otherwise, you have been duped. There is no red in MG, none at all. MG is a formula of 13 years worth of work. Sorry to see what has become of it. I've left a lot of information on the yahoo betta chat room and the genetic archives. I would suggest to all breeders, name your strains and keep a good genetic log. Most of what I'm saying right now and most of what I've said before is written in these chat rooms. I will come back to check on this chat room to see how everyone's doing.

Thank You
Uncle Junkin

Chris Yew
7th May 2003, 04:54 PM
OK, gone thru the Yahoo Betta Genetically Speaking Archive and found the following regarding Mustard Gas;
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bettageneticsarchives/message/278

In summary from the postings there;

- Mustard Gas: Si+/SiSi, BlBl, nrnr**,(Vf+/VfVf)
There could be as little as 4 genes responsible for it.

- The Mustard Gas appear to only have the yellow*, red turned yellow by the "nr"** gene on the fins and not any on the body , assume they do not possess the "Er" gene.

- Statements made by a few people out there crossing to yellow and obtaining red fry leads to believe it is possibly orange based.

** If orange based the gene would be "nr2" which has officially not been described.

That's all I could gather at the moment from there, hope to find out more.

Moses Wong
17th June 2003, 02:27 PM
Hi all could you tellme wheter the Mg inside my photoalbum is good?
this is my photoalbum http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/photo_album_cat.asp?sqldtl=223

Phil
17th June 2003, 03:22 PM
Hi Moses, Color is acceptable, but you will have to do a lot of work to improve the caudal finnage.

Toh Ming Wei
4th July 2003, 04:33 AM
Is there anyway to make unpure MGs into pure mgs.
can we improve the % of fries carrying MG genes and over the time increasing it to over 90 % MGs by crossing it back to its parents ?
possible?, cannot be judge? or simply impossible?

Toh Ming Wei
4th July 2003, 04:33 AM
Is there anyway to make unpure MGs into pure mgs.
can we improve the % of fries carrying MG genes and over the time increasing it to over 90 % MGs by crossing it back to its parents ?
possible?, cannot be judge? or simply impossible?

Phil
4th July 2003, 08:42 AM
yes it's possible, but be prepared for a long and winding road because it will take a lot from you. Both perseverence and discipline.

quote:Originally posted by Toh Ming Wei

Is there anyway to make unpure MGs into pure mgs.
can we improve the % of fries carrying MG genes and over the time increasing it to over 90 % MGs by crossing it back to its parents ?
possible?, cannot be judge? or simply impossible?

Phil
4th July 2003, 08:42 AM
yes it's possible, but be prepared for a long and winding road because it will take a lot from you. Both perseverence and discipline.

quote:Originally posted by Toh Ming Wei

Is there anyway to make unpure MGs into pure mgs.
can we improve the % of fries carrying MG genes and over the time increasing it to over 90 % MGs by crossing it back to its parents ?
possible?, cannot be judge? or simply impossible?

Chee Koon
4th July 2003, 01:25 PM
quote:Originally posted by Toh Ming Wei

Is there anyway to make unpure MGs into pure mgs.
can we improve the % of fries carrying MG genes and over the time increasing it to over 90 % MGs by crossing it back to its parents ?
possible?, cannot be judge? or simply impossible?



My opinion - to avoid that hassle, dun acquire unpure MG parent loh. Then you will save a lot of time. But again, ppl (like me) sometime hand very itchy, wanted to "experiment" outcrossing, then crossing back to the MG parent (father or mother) would be a good idea to get higher % of MG gene. Make sure it's a young one as it need to last a few spawns...[33]

Chee Koon
4th July 2003, 01:25 PM
quote:Originally posted by Toh Ming Wei

Is there anyway to make unpure MGs into pure mgs.
can we improve the % of fries carrying MG genes and over the time increasing it to over 90 % MGs by crossing it back to its parents ?
possible?, cannot be judge? or simply impossible?



My opinion - to avoid that hassle, dun acquire unpure MG parent loh. Then you will save a lot of time. But again, ppl (like me) sometime hand very itchy, wanted to "experiment" outcrossing, then crossing back to the MG parent (father or mother) would be a good idea to get higher % of MG gene. Make sure it's a young one as it need to last a few spawns...[33]

Myron Tay
19th January 2004, 06:46 PM
Definition of mustard gas:

(i) Pure irridescent-coloured body; and
(ii) 50% Yellow / 50% Irridescent (same colour as the body) clearly banded fins; and
(iii) The two irridescent colours on the body and the fins must be separated by the yellow band on the fins.

Am I correct?

Alex Lim
19th January 2004, 11:07 PM
Both bettas belongs to GeminiLow's. I believe this fulfills the criteria of MGs. However, they've inherited marble genes as well. so unsure if these will later "change colour" but i doubt so since marble is recessive to MG. permissible?

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vincent mah
20th January 2004, 12:05 AM
Half correct,
Mustard Gas is a name use by uncle Junkin for his green,yellow
Variegated fin Betta.
In Singapore the direct import from him is by Foo Hong
i think maybe no one has the direct descendant from them
by now.
Or any one who bought from Uncle Junkin can call
his Betta Mustard Gas.
So i would not call it Mustard Gas unless its from him (Uncle
Junkin).
Other cross is not a Mustard Gas.
It seem to me everybody has Mustard Gas.They are not,
but out cross only or the are pseudo Mustard Gas.
So i would call them other name but not Mustard Gas.

Chris Yew
20th January 2004, 10:05 AM
This is what Jude said in a forum (Genetically Speaking) on Dec 2001;

Mustard Gas do not carry a clear butterfly marking. The butterfly that
comes out of the Mustard Gas is either a blue, green, or white. Not
clear. The white was just recently (around 1999) introduced about two years ago. That clearing indicates to me ita

Malcom Tan
20th January 2004, 06:58 PM
do you have the link ?

Chris Yew
20th January 2004, 08:13 PM
Malcom, here is the link to the forum but can't remember which thread number as I usually saved it on my hd.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bettageneticallyspeaking/?yguid=86367131

quote:Originally posted by Malcom Tan

do you have the link ?

Malcom Tan
23rd January 2004, 03:12 AM
Hi
Just wondering, who still holds the original MG line in Singapore?
regards
Malcom

Alex Lim
4th February 2004, 05:14 PM
Hi Malcom,

U. Phil and Dr Hsu derived their MG CT from Uncle Junkin's lines if memory serves me correctly. perhaps, you can enquire them about it?

Alex Lim
4th February 2004, 05:18 PM
quote:Originally posted by Alex Lim

Hi Malcom,

U. Phil and Dr Hsu derived their MG CT from Uncle Junkin's lines if memory serves me correctly. perhaps, you can enquire them about it?


sorry, i think you've already got it since you are selling MG CT on arro. [bt]

Myron Tay
23rd June 2004, 07:24 AM
quote:Originally posted by chue xiong

ME and my cousin had a agrument i told him that MG dont breed true and he told me that the line has been fix that you can get 70% or more of MG. is that true? has anyone breed a MG x MG and got 70& or more of MG?
Some answers here.

Jodi Lea
23rd June 2004, 08:02 PM
[quote]quote:Originally posted by Chris Yew

This is what Jude said in a forum (Genetically Speaking) on Dec 2001;

Mustard Gas do not carry a clear butterfly marking. The butterfly that
comes out of the Mustard Gas is either a blue, green, or white. Not
clear. The white was just recently (around 1999) introduced about two years ago. That clearing indicates to me ita

David Esguerra
24th June 2004, 01:39 AM
Hehehe, for one thing, this thread taught or reemphasized the confusion of the time and why I found it logical though it was presented in a rather haphazard way, that the name should not be used too freely.

Just follow all the links that Chris Yew posted pointing to a pic of an MG (he usually pointed to links of fish that were bred by Jude Als himself) and pick any picture of a fish carrying the MG name nowadays and play "spot the difference". I'd bet you'd have one interesting game of spot the difference.

Myron Tay
17th June 2005, 06:52 PM
quote:Originally posted by mervin_kei

Third, What other colors (aside from MG of course)can I cross with a MG to improve yellow or blue color for my MG?As can be seen from this thread, MG is the result of a complex mix of genes. Good to understand all colour factors before attempting to improve the colour of this type of fish. My advice would be to go with the yellow, since most of the fault in most MGs is really the lack of yellow colour.

mervin_kei
19th June 2005, 06:19 PM
quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

quote:Originally posted by mervin_kei

Third, What other colors (aside from MG of course)can I cross with a MG to improve yellow or blue color for my MG?As can be seen from this thread, MG is the result of a complex mix of genes. Good to understand all colour factors before attempting to improve the colour of this type of fish. My advice would be to go with the yellow, since most of the fault in most MGs is really the lack of yellow colour.


Ah i see, so MG x YELLOW = MG?

Myron Tay
21st June 2005, 09:54 AM
quote:Originally posted by mervin_kei

quote:Originally posted by Myron Tay

quote:Originally posted by mervin_kei

Third, What other colors (aside from MG of course)can I cross with a MG to improve yellow or blue color for my MG?As can be seen from this thread, MG is the result of a complex mix of genes. Good to understand all colour factors before attempting to improve the colour of this type of fish. My advice would be to go with the yellow, since most of the fault in most MGs is really the lack of yellow colour.


Ah i see, so MG x YELLOW = MG?
It depends on what is the genetic make-up of both the MG and yellow you are using.

Carl Archie
10th December 2005, 03:33 AM
HI,
I have written an article about Mustard Gas from what i was able to find out about it. I wrote it for a contest at www.bettysplendens.com but i didn't win. Then i posted the link for someone else to see and the Moderator of the forum asked me if he could post in the Article section so i let him and here it is.


http://www.bettas4all.nl/viewtopic.php?t=2682


Hopefully it will help some. There is still some info that i intentionally left out for the purposes of length.

Robin ChenCZ
10th December 2005, 02:04 PM
what would i get
MG Plakat (M) x Cambo Red (F)?????

Carl Archie
11th December 2005, 06:57 AM
Hi,
What a coincidence?
I just heard of someone that did a spawn similar to yours.

Thye did a MGHM male with a Cambo female.
They got a variety of colours including MG, Yellow BF, Multies, and blues.
here is a link.
http://p105.ezboard.com/fchampionbettas30805frm13.showMessage?topicID=11.t opic

i am not sure if you will get the same results as there are many diffferent factors that can affect the outcome of any one spawn. The cambo female in this particular spawn carried Orange(nr2) which made it possible for the person in the link to get the different NR colours he got. If yours does not carry any NR genes then you may just get some nice Blue/Red BF's.


Carl Archie

Robin ChenCZ
11th December 2005, 02:32 PM
wow.... i am just trying out the colour.... hopefully i got what i wanted.
the spawn is 1-2 weeks old now