Worm problem

[Kelvin Tan]

New Problem,

tiny white worms sticking on betta body.....both parents got it. so now worry for my 2 day old fries....coz parent had it thruout spawning process.....

treatment?

btw the orange male now is fine, full recovery.

[kennho]

not too sure is it hook worm. deworming will require some toxic measure - either Praziquantel (go to vet), formulin (some fish farms), dimilin (from vet) or copper(slowest).

last resort : PP bombing 1% (1g/L)

before u do that, high salt bath sometime helps. 5% NaCl.

[kennho]

not too sure is it hook worm. deworming will require some toxic measure - either Praziquantel (go to vet), formulin (some fish farms), dimilin (from vet) or copper(slowest).

last resort : PP bombing 1% (1g/L)

before u do that, high salt bath sometime helps. 5% NaCl.

[Dr Hsu]

Treatment really depends on what they are. If they are sticking out from the body like thin threads, and if they are truly parasites, then the most likely candidate is Lernae (anchorworms), which aren't actually "worms" (so dewormers won't work)but a crustacean parasite. Way to confirm is to somehow get a sample and look under a microscope/magnifying glass, or maybe even a blow up of a good high res photo (never actually done this but I think it will work great). Treatment would be somekind of OTC med for external parasites. Dimilin works great but, as mentioned in the talk, takes a longer time as it works against the parasite when it changes it's exoskeleton. I would be cautious re it's use in young fry as although generally very safe, all young growing animals play by slightly different rules...Save the parents - you can always get a new spawn if the current one bombs out.

[Dr Hsu]

Treatment really depends on what they are. If they are sticking out from the body like thin threads, and if they are truly parasites, then the most likely candidate is Lernae (anchorworms), which aren't actually "worms" (so dewormers won't work)but a crustacean parasite. Way to confirm is to somehow get a sample and look under a microscope/magnifying glass, or maybe even a blow up of a good high res photo (never actually done this but I think it will work great). Treatment would be somekind of OTC med for external parasites. Dimilin works great but, as mentioned in the talk, takes a longer time as it works against the parasite when it changes it's exoskeleton. I would be cautious re it's use in young fry as although generally very safe, all young growing animals play by slightly different rules...Save the parents - you can always get a new spawn if the current one bombs out.

[Kelvin Tan]

yah time to spend more money....going to get ocean free ext parasite i guess. .....fries now undergo daily 100% water even though they aer only 2 days old....

parent in ocean free ext bact and was in m blue.....only good ext med i have now...guess i'm not exactly well stocked up. heh.
interpet also got but not sure if i wanna get that.... yeah maybe its anchorworm...tiny ones.... maybe get interpet better but i am avoiding treating the day old fries.....

[Kelvin Tan]

yah time to spend more money....going to get ocean free ext parasite i guess. .....fries now undergo daily 100% water even though they aer only 2 days old....

parent in ocean free ext bact and was in m blue.....only good ext med i have now...guess i'm not exactly well stocked up. heh.
interpet also got but not sure if i wanna get that.... yeah maybe its anchorworm...tiny ones.... maybe get interpet better but i am avoiding treating the day old fries.....

[Kelvin Tan]

yeah trying to save the parents they seems not duly affected much. i cant lose that female....she took care of 3 spawns already....defying orders of betta....she does her job well, taking care of fries and eggs and blowing more nest.

[Kelvin Tan]

yeah trying to save the parents they seems not duly affected much. i cant lose that female....she took care of 3 spawns already....defying orders of betta....she does her job well, taking care of fries and eggs and blowing more nest.

[Foo Hong]

worms / parasites dont do well in saline, a strong salt bath or a moderate salt dip overnight shld kill them.

[Foo Hong]

worms / parasites dont do well in saline, a strong salt bath or a moderate salt dip overnight shld kill them.

[Kelvin Tan]

no signs of recovery.
getting new med

fries dying off at very fast rate, worms clinging onto them.

other fish affect by this slime/ fugus, which form a opaque layer which seems to peel off. any help for this disease?

[Kelvin Tan]

no signs of recovery.
getting new med

fries dying off at very fast rate, worms clinging onto them.

other fish affect by this slime/ fugus, which form a opaque layer which seems to peel off. any help for this disease?

[kennho]

kelvin, not too long ago, i got the same thing. practically 1 batch of black plakat wiped out within 36 hours and another batch of blue dt lost 90%. the fries looked pale and lost their swimming abilities. I tried heavy salt solution for both batch and left with 20 odds blue dt. and due to the salt bath, most of the dt cannot swim well for practically a mth. nearly dump them off but my heart tells me to press on. imagine 2 mths liao and still less then an half inch size.

[kennho]

kelvin, not too long ago, i got the same thing. practically 1 batch of black plakat wiped out within 36 hours and another batch of blue dt lost 90%. the fries looked pale and lost their swimming abilities. I tried heavy salt solution for both batch and left with 20 odds blue dt. and due to the salt bath, most of the dt cannot swim well for practically a mth. nearly dump them off but my heart tells me to press on. imagine 2 mths liao and still less then an half inch size.

[Kelvin Tan]

mine should die off..all of them. on verge on culling, if not, they should be dead by now. first time lose whole spawn. terrible sight...worms like microworms clinging on the fries......

[Kelvin Tan]

mine should die off..all of them. on verge on culling, if not, they should be dead by now. first time lose whole spawn. terrible sight...worms like microworms clinging on the fries......

[Dr Hsu]

Kelvin,

If you are that interested in diseases, then you should consider doing proper diagnostics on these fish to see what they are dying of. Unfortunately need to spend some money - even for dead fish.

Options are (1) to bring some to Dr Fred Chua for a consult.
(2) have some histopath done on the fish by AVA fish health section.

(1) will possibly give you more info as ante mortem diagnostics can be performed - I suspect a simple scraping/squash prep will enable identification of the parasite - but will possibly cost more than (2)
Histopath costs about $33-35 after GST and basically slides will be made of the fish and any offending organism identified (generally to type rather than species) With this you can generally get a good idea as to what's killing them, including possibly internal bacterial infections etc.

With histopath, I was able to tell that some of my fish were affected by internal amoebiasis and external parasitism, although these are not observable by the naked eye.

Have always thought of organizing a "disease survey" of sorts thru BCS - owners take samples of dying fish in formalin, history and symptoms, and BCS will help in sample sending etc (cost to be borne by owner). If sufficient info is gathered (ie large numbers of samples with accompanying symptoms, history) then we can get some scientifically useful info on diseases of bettas in Singapore.

If you need formalin containers, let me know.

[Dr Hsu]

Kelvin,

If you are that interested in diseases, then you should consider doing proper diagnostics on these fish to see what they are dying of. Unfortunately need to spend some money - even for dead fish.

Options are (1) to bring some to Dr Fred Chua for a consult.
(2) have some histopath done on the fish by AVA fish health section.

(1) will possibly give you more info as ante mortem diagnostics can be performed - I suspect a simple scraping/squash prep will enable identification of the parasite - but will possibly cost more than (2)
Histopath costs about $33-35 after GST and basically slides will be made of the fish and any offending organism identified (generally to type rather than species) With this you can generally get a good idea as to what's killing them, including possibly internal bacterial infections etc.

With histopath, I was able to tell that some of my fish were affected by internal amoebiasis and external parasitism, although these are not observable by the naked eye.

Have always thought of organizing a "disease survey" of sorts thru BCS - owners take samples of dying fish in formalin, history and symptoms, and BCS will help in sample sending etc (cost to be borne by owner). If sufficient info is gathered (ie large numbers of samples with accompanying symptoms, history) then we can get some scientifically useful info on diseases of bettas in Singapore.

If you need formalin containers, let me know.

[Foo Hong]

Betta census? why not.

The results will be more valauble than gene lucas' findings :D

[Foo Hong]

Betta census? why not.

The results will be more valauble than gene lucas' findings :D

[Kelvin Tan]

Hi,

Well interestingly, I'm taking microbiology degree in NUS. but also interestingly, my interest in treating betta disease isnt related to why i am studying microbiology. its just a part of a hobbyist who hope to prevent fish death.
coz i never really thought of wanting to check any tissue samples under microscope or actually pick up and fish disease book to chek the offending microbes' actual morphology.
well perhaps, when i start on my honour project which i would have free access to microscope.

coz to me now, i treat them based on visible signs. not easy coz facing many new disease which are not treatable yet, such as the worms and now some sort of slime/fungus covering on adults.

hmm perhaps i could learn more about diagnosis thru tissue samples and then charge ppl half price for a diagnosis....heh....just get a good reference book and a microscope that's all. though i cringe on opening up a dead fish.

betta disease survey/ epidemiological studies...unlikely sucessful coz $ involved and ppl would rather buy a new fish rather than throw money away on dying ones. that's my thought though i dun agree.
anyway most of those fish that die at my place are of those hard to diagnose or incurable ones.
most other ppl's fish die of common disease that are easy to diagnose, that's where bcs can work on, preparing a good betta disease guide with treatment using locally available medication. i am sure many ppl has their own ways to treat and it would be so invaluable to everyone if there is a compilation on possible treatment methods, with good illustrations. bcs can even make it a publication and sell it!
i try to apply aseptic techniques while changin water (hehe) so sick cases would be isolated instead of spreading throughout all fishes. thus $ spend on diagnosis would be wasted right since the fish would have been dead (to get internal tissue samples)
and since every fish that fall sick with similar symptons may be suffering from different disease, so would it be wasting $?

just some thoughts Hsu.

[Kelvin Tan]

Hi,

Well interestingly, I'm taking microbiology degree in NUS. but also interestingly, my interest in treating betta disease isnt related to why i am studying microbiology. its just a part of a hobbyist who hope to prevent fish death.
coz i never really thought of wanting to check any tissue samples under microscope or actually pick up and fish disease book to chek the offending microbes' actual morphology.
well perhaps, when i start on my honour project which i would have free access to microscope.

coz to me now, i treat them based on visible signs. not easy coz facing many new disease which are not treatable yet, such as the worms and now some sort of slime/fungus covering on adults.

hmm perhaps i could learn more about diagnosis thru tissue samples and then charge ppl half price for a diagnosis....heh....just get a good reference book and a microscope that's all. though i cringe on opening up a dead fish.

betta disease survey/ epidemiological studies...unlikely sucessful coz $ involved and ppl would rather buy a new fish rather than throw money away on dying ones. that's my thought though i dun agree.
anyway most of those fish that die at my place are of those hard to diagnose or incurable ones.
most other ppl's fish die of common disease that are easy to diagnose, that's where bcs can work on, preparing a good betta disease guide with treatment using locally available medication. i am sure many ppl has their own ways to treat and it would be so invaluable to everyone if there is a compilation on possible treatment methods, with good illustrations. bcs can even make it a publication and sell it!
i try to apply aseptic techniques while changin water (hehe) so sick cases would be isolated instead of spreading throughout all fishes. thus $ spend on diagnosis would be wasted right since the fish would have been dead (to get internal tissue samples)
and since every fish that fall sick with similar symptons may be suffering from different disease, so would it be wasting $?

just some thoughts Hsu.

[Eric Yeo]

Kelvin,
I'm not a fish doctor, but may I suggest that u split your frys into many containers and each contains (label it) different medications to treat your frys. Chances you might succeed in one , more or non of the contaner, and I think it is better than treating them in one contatiner with the same medicine and all die with no chance to try other med. If you succeded it u get less frys and will know what treatment to use in future.

[Eric Yeo]

Kelvin,
I'm not a fish doctor, but may I suggest that u split your frys into many containers and each contains (label it) different medications to treat your frys. Chances you might succeed in one , more or non of the contaner, and I think it is better than treating them in one contatiner with the same medicine and all die with no chance to try other med. If you succeded it u get less frys and will know what treatment to use in future.

[kennho]

Kelvin, sorry to say that I rather save my fish than throwing it away. Maybe a few years ago I perform the "famous chinese traditional - cut off the head" method, but after I took up the goldfish keeping, I learn to save any fish as much as I could. There are people that spend money flying to foreign countries just to learn how others are keeping and there are people that go the extra mile.

anyway, i do agree that the cost would a factor compare to the cost of a betta. Probably BCS and members would work on improve technique on keeping, diease control & treatment and/or even owns a line of medications, food specialised for betta (hahahaha ... $$$).

[kennho]

Kelvin, sorry to say that I rather save my fish than throwing it away. Maybe a few years ago I perform the "famous chinese traditional - cut off the head" method, but after I took up the goldfish keeping, I learn to save any fish as much as I could. There are people that spend money flying to foreign countries just to learn how others are keeping and there are people that go the extra mile.

anyway, i do agree that the cost would a factor compare to the cost of a betta. Probably BCS and members would work on improve technique on keeping, diease control & treatment and/or even owns a line of medications, food specialised for betta (hahahaha ... $$$).

[Dr Hsu]

coz to me now, i treat them based on visible signs. not easy coz facing many new disease which are not treatable yet, such as the worms and now some sort of slime/fungus covering on adults.

There are no new diseases, just undiagnosed ones. Your "worms" are not new, been parasitizing fish for eons and highly treatable, and your slime is likely just excessive body mucous production from a primary irritant, which is most like a protozoan parasite. You should have attended the fis disease talk....

hmm perhaps i could learn more about diagnosis thru tissue samples and then charge ppl half price for a diagnosis....heh....just get a good reference book and a microscope that's all. though i cringe on opening up a dead fish.

Many people spend half their lives looking under a microscope to diagnose fish diseases and still find they are just scratching the surface! My collegues Dr Fred Chua and Dr Susan Kueh spent a year in one of the premier universities for fish disease; I spent a whole summer taking a fulltime undergrad aquatic vet course and did a 3 months externship with a fish vet treating salmon off the BC coast....and yet we find that there is still so much to find out. You will have to do better than a microscope and a good reference book!!

betta disease survey/ epidemiological studies...unlikely sucessful coz $ involved and ppl would rather buy a new fish rather than throw money away on dying ones.

If no one thinks of doing it, that's why it will be unsuccessful!

that's where bcs can work on, preparing a good betta disease guide with treatment using locally available medication.

Without knowing what is happening, you cannot truly say you have a treatment, thus a survey would be invaluable

thus $ spend on diagnosis would be wasted right since the fish would have been dead (to get internal tissue samples)
and since every fish that fall sick with similar symptons may be suffering from different disease, so would it be wasting $?

No. If you have a whole spawn/fish room full of fish with the same symptoms at the same time, chances are they all have the same thing. Variations of the same theme perhaps (secondary infections complicating the primary problem if not diagnosed early) but generally the same primary problem. '

If you just have one fish affected, then of course you get no where sacrificing it, but do you know that diagnostics can be carried out on a live fish that can give you sufficient info for a proper diagnosis?

just some thoughts Hsu.

Just some other thoughts, Kelvin

[Dr Hsu]

coz to me now, i treat them based on visible signs. not easy coz facing many new disease which are not treatable yet, such as the worms and now some sort of slime/fungus covering on adults.

There are no new diseases, just undiagnosed ones. Your "worms" are not new, been parasitizing fish for eons and highly treatable, and your slime is likely just excessive body mucous production from a primary irritant, which is most like a protozoan parasite. You should have attended the fis disease talk....

hmm perhaps i could learn more about diagnosis thru tissue samples and then charge ppl half price for a diagnosis....heh....just get a good reference book and a microscope that's all. though i cringe on opening up a dead fish.

Many people spend half their lives looking under a microscope to diagnose fish diseases and still find they are just scratching the surface! My collegues Dr Fred Chua and Dr Susan Kueh spent a year in one of the premier universities for fish disease; I spent a whole summer taking a fulltime undergrad aquatic vet course and did a 3 months externship with a fish vet treating salmon off the BC coast....and yet we find that there is still so much to find out. You will have to do better than a microscope and a good reference book!!

betta disease survey/ epidemiological studies...unlikely sucessful coz $ involved and ppl would rather buy a new fish rather than throw money away on dying ones.

If no one thinks of doing it, that's why it will be unsuccessful!

that's where bcs can work on, preparing a good betta disease guide with treatment using locally available medication.

Without knowing what is happening, you cannot truly say you have a treatment, thus a survey would be invaluable

thus $ spend on diagnosis would be wasted right since the fish would have been dead (to get internal tissue samples)
and since every fish that fall sick with similar symptons may be suffering from different disease, so would it be wasting $?

No. If you have a whole spawn/fish room full of fish with the same symptoms at the same time, chances are they all have the same thing. Variations of the same theme perhaps (secondary infections complicating the primary problem if not diagnosed early) but generally the same primary problem. '

If you just have one fish affected, then of course you get no where sacrificing it, but do you know that diagnostics can be carried out on a live fish that can give you sufficient info for a proper diagnosis?

just some thoughts Hsu.

Just some other thoughts, Kelvin

[Kelvin Tan]

Eric
yeah thank i did that for my fries once when they got velvet. manage to save half.

ken
those fries some are still alive hope they make it on their own.

Hsu
thanks, so what do you suggest then for the disease survey, especially for ppl with limited $$. coz my principle is, never spend more than $30 on a fish....that has been applied to all my fish till now...except a stupid luohan i got for $60. And i am surviving primarily only on $ i can get from selling betta!! not taking allowanace from parents, not teaching tuition.... and good thing i dun spend much $. so earning betta $ you can imagine how hard it is...
actually from what i know....there are actually only a limited number of ppl who are interested in betta disease, the rest are only interested when their fish falls sick.

[Kelvin Tan]

Eric
yeah thank i did that for my fries once when they got velvet. manage to save half.

ken
those fries some are still alive hope they make it on their own.

Hsu
thanks, so what do you suggest then for the disease survey, especially for ppl with limited $$. coz my principle is, never spend more than $30 on a fish....that has been applied to all my fish till now...except a stupid luohan i got for $60. And i am surviving primarily only on $ i can get from selling betta!! not taking allowanace from parents, not teaching tuition.... and good thing i dun spend much $. so earning betta $ you can imagine how hard it is...
actually from what i know....there are actually only a limited number of ppl who are interested in betta disease, the rest are only interested when their fish falls sick.

[Kelvin Tan]

Eric
yeah thank i did that for my fries once when they got velvet. manage to save half.

ken
those fries some are still alive hope they make it on their own.

Hsu
thanks, so what do you suggest then for the disease survey, especially for ppl with limited $$. coz my principle is, never spend more than $30 on a fish....that has been applied to all my fish till now...except a stupid luohan i got for $60. And i am surviving primarily only on $ i can get from selling betta!! not taking allowanace from parents, not teaching tuition.... and good thing i dun spend much $. so earning betta $ you can imagine how hard it is...
actually from what i know....there are actually only a limited number of ppl who are interested in betta disease, the rest are only interested when their fish falls sick.

[Kelvin Tan]

Eric
yeah thank i did that for my fries once when they got velvet. manage to save half.

ken
those fries some are still alive hope they make it on their own.

Hsu
thanks, so what do you suggest then for the disease survey, especially for ppl with limited $$. coz my principle is, never spend more than $30 on a fish....that has been applied to all my fish till now...except a stupid luohan i got for $60. And i am surviving primarily only on $ i can get from selling betta!! not taking allowanace from parents, not teaching tuition.... and good thing i dun spend much $. so earning betta $ you can imagine how hard it is...
actually from what i know....there are actually only a limited number of ppl who are interested in betta disease, the rest are only interested when their fish falls sick.

[Eric Yeo]

Hi all,
I need help, my Red bettas in community tank have these white things sticking on the face, gill and stomach areas. Kelvin is this what your bettas had? Are they WORM? See my drawing (not HM yet)

Download Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif Sick betta.jpg (http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/eric yeo/2003113235633_Sick betta.jpg)
26.7KB[:

[Eric Yeo]

Hi all,
I need help, my Red bettas in community tank have these white things sticking on the face, gill and stomach areas. Kelvin is this what your bettas had? Are they WORM? See my drawing (not HM yet)

Download Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif Sick betta.jpg (http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/eric yeo/2003113235633_Sick betta.jpg)
26.7KB[:

[Chris Yew]

Kelvin, Dr.Hsu or any other guys - can help Eric with his betta problem. Guess it's URGENT!

quote:Originally posted by Eric Yeo

Hi all,
I need help, my Red bettas in community tank have these white things sticking on the face, gill and stomach areas. Kelvin is this what your bettas had? Are they WORM? See my drawing (not HM yet)

Download Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif Sick betta.jpg (http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/eric yeo/2003113235633_Sick betta.jpg)
26.7?KB[:

[Chris Yew]

Kelvin, Dr.Hsu or any other guys - can help Eric with his betta problem. Guess it's URGENT!

quote:Originally posted by Eric Yeo

Hi all,
I need help, my Red bettas in community tank have these white things sticking on the face, gill and stomach areas. Kelvin is this what your bettas had? Are they WORM? See my drawing (not HM yet)

Download Attachment: icon_paperclip.gif Sick betta.jpg (http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/eric yeo/2003113235633_Sick betta.jpg)
26.7?KB[:

[kennho]

I hope not hook worms.
Never treat worm case with small fish before. Can't guranteed workable.
Can try Coppersafe and salt treatment.

Eric, can use pincer to pluck one one and see if the whatever is moving ?

[kennho]

I hope not hook worms.
Never treat worm case with small fish before. Can't guranteed workable.
Can try Coppersafe and salt treatment.

Eric, can use pincer to pluck one one and see if the whatever is moving ?

[Kelvin Tan]

eric yes those are the damn worms!!

what my mum did

threw in lots of herbal anti ext parasite, and other herbal med, and i think i added some other med such as anti velet by interpet. and salt.....

few hundred fries only 2 survive. nothing much you can really do. i lose the subsequent batch...whole 200-300 fries, after i spawn the parents again when they recovered.

i treated the parent with anti ext bacteria (ocean free- green liquid) and herbal anti parasite. i treat sick betta in my unique ways la, cos i got a lot of med to try. so i would try different combination on fish, and after a day see if better or worse and decide the next combination or to carry on. but parents didnt die, only the few day old fries...

interpet has a med for parasite has well? hasnt tried that you may wanna try.

split up all your fries and treat differently. change water everyday

[Kelvin Tan]

eric yes those are the damn worms!!

what my mum did

threw in lots of herbal anti ext parasite, and other herbal med, and i think i added some other med such as anti velet by interpet. and salt.....

few hundred fries only 2 survive. nothing much you can really do. i lose the subsequent batch...whole 200-300 fries, after i spawn the parents again when they recovered.

i treated the parent with anti ext bacteria (ocean free- green liquid) and herbal anti parasite. i treat sick betta in my unique ways la, cos i got a lot of med to try. so i would try different combination on fish, and after a day see if better or worse and decide the next combination or to carry on. but parents didnt die, only the few day old fries...

interpet has a med for parasite has well? hasnt tried that you may wanna try.

split up all your fries and treat differently. change water everyday

[Eric Yeo]

All fm the tank GONE, I tried many containers with different Med and no one survive. There were the Strait Red 3 - 4 months old. But luckily I still have some in my lotus pot.
I've another batch 2 month old Nicol + Strait Red also going. I'm now worry for the other 3 batches also RED. I suppect that the desease come fm TB. Hey Kelvin thanks for your info.

[Eric Yeo]

All fm the tank GONE, I tried many containers with different Med and no one survive. There were the Strait Red 3 - 4 months old. But luckily I still have some in my lotus pot.
I've another batch 2 month old Nicol + Strait Red also going. I'm now worry for the other 3 batches also RED. I suppect that the desease come fm TB. Hey Kelvin thanks for your info.

[Kelvin Tan]

good luck bro.....make sure the fries water dun cross contaminate or share anything...to prevent water form one tank entering the other...

[Kelvin Tan]

good luck bro.....make sure the fries water dun cross contaminate or share anything...to prevent water form one tank entering the other...

[Foo Hong]

Oh my god, machiam landed on a cactus!

[Foo Hong]

Oh my god, machiam landed on a cactus!