China Aquaria

[KY Foong]

Since in our last AGM (June 26, 2004) we have discussed 2 issues, one on our statement of fighting betta and another on China Aquaria. I know this may be quite unrelated but since we are getting involved with the show/competition, we may like to seriously think of a proper name for betta. My limited vocab says "Fighting Fish". For obvious reason, this will stick on and we all know the Chinese can even develop great gambling systems even in cricket fighting and stick counting... numbers, anything. I was thinking if we could avoid giving this name (Fighting fish)

[Myron Tay]

I believe you mean in Mandarin right? This is a toughie as the fish has always been known as fighting fish in Mandarin. How about Thailand Fish (tai guo yu)?

[Daniel Chia]

"Da Jia Yu" (Hanyu Pinyin for Fighting Fish) already exists in the Chinese vocabulary. Perhaps "Guan Shang" (Hanyu Pinyin for Ornamental or Visual Appreciation) could be added.

"Guan Shang Da Jia Yu" (Hanyu Pinyin for Ornamental Fighting Fish) would indicate that the fish is of a different category (i.e. a category for visual appreciation).

[Myron Tay]

Daniel

I think KY and I are aware of the Mandarin name for bettas. However, we are concerned that using "da jia" or "da dou" would conflict with our existing official BCS stance on fighting bettas: http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2448

A typical person might ask why does the fish's name have a "fighting" in it and leads to many conversations with less than desirable results. Not sure how you can convince someone that you should not have fish fights with a fish named "fighting fish". Since this is largely an introduction of bettas into China (or at least a major re-introduction), it might be wise to choose a less suggestive name.

[Alex Lim]

Hi all,

not really appropriate for me to suggest anything because i'm not a BCS member. sorry if anyone is not happy with my participation in this in view of the above. but if you are into Mandarin names, i think i can offer a perspective..

I don't think the name should be too long because it's not really "smooth to the mouth" (shun kou) and moreover, it's a hassle to remember, not to mention being too formal, it takes away the kick too.

the mundane name for "fighting fish" is "da jia yu" in the less refined term and "da dou yu" in more refined terms. i advocate using the "dou" because it's more classical mandarin term.

recommend taking away the "da" because it's more emmmmm... rowdy?? and it really sounds rogue and vulgar, in proper mandarin use.

don't think should take away the "fighting" essence of the name because it's really what bettas are and since bettas originates from S.E Asia, where it was originally used for fighting too. without the fighting stance in the first place, we would not have the appreciating portion which has grown more popular in recent times.

hence, i suggest "shang dou yu" which when, translated into mandarin means "appreciating fighting fish". this would put it in a different category from the bloodsport itself and yet sounds classically refined (in the chinese sense). furthermore, simple to remember.

for your debate please. just my 2 cent's worth.

[KY Foong]

Isn't there a nice direct translation from the word "Betta" into some nice Chines words. I hate it when we get the name wrong. In my previous company someone from Japan registered the name PXXXX Industry Malaysia Parts.... which in short form is PIMP. Result, the guy was demoted for his initiative by not consulting others.

[Alex Lim]

U. Foong,

we cannot simply direct translate English words into Mandarin because it will sound very strange. e.g Beckham when translated directly is "Be1 Ke4 Han4 Mu3" if you write it in chinese words, it makes no sense. Arrowana will = "Ar2 Er3 Wa2 Na4" wouldn't "Long Yu" sounds nicer?

Betta then = "Bei4 Te4" or "Bei3 Te4" or "Bei4 Te4 Ha1" or "Bu4 Te4".. the chinese words configurated will be quite whacky..

in fact, there is a crisis with the Chinese language that direct English words are translated directly into Mandarin. it's also happening in Malaysia as well that the M'sia government has sought to curb the use of direct translated malay on air. this, if not kept in check, will erode the beauty of the language itself.

[Daniel Chia]

Alex's suggestion ("Shang Dou Yu") does sound more refine. Perhaps it's difficult to avoid the "fighting" or "pugnacious" adjective because it is the nature of bettas to be so. Afterall, doesn't Betta Splendens mean Splendid Warrior? [cnf]

[Myron Tay]

I think "Shang Dou Yu" describes more of the hobby / passion that of the fish. Most male fish display some form of display when confronted with fellow males in breeding mode. Anyone who has doubts can come over to my office aquarium of breeding platys and the frequent displays that go on. Previously, I have had white cloud mountain minnows which display the same behaviour. What's the Mandarin word(s) for Splendid?

[Myron Tay]

What about hui1 yi4 yu2 (splendid fins fish)?

[Martin]

The Show betta in Manderin is called " Zhan Shi Ji Dou Yu" or " Zhan Dou " . One of the China Professor has recognised this .

[Alex Lim]

Myron,

splendid is "bang4" in Mandarin. but irregardless of breeding or not, bettas still fight doesn't they?

anyway, all this discussion will lead to naught if there are no endorsements, suggest we come up with a number of possible names and put them on a compulsory poll for BCS members?

the main problem i can see is that not all BCS registered members are Chinese.. so it'll be a small nip on the caudal for the exco.

"zhan dou" is too strong a word and means warfare itself rather than just fighting for fending.

ok after dinner can think slightly better, what about "hua dou yu"? essentially, it means the different variety of show bettas. the more complete term shoud be "hua1 shi4 dou yu"? (flower, style, fighting, fish)... :D when directly written in chinese. would find it more appropriate at current juncture.

i suggest that the mandarin description be kept to a limit of no more than four chinese words, because firstly, it sounds like chinese idioms, refine lah. second, it feels more "rang rang shang kou" - errrr.. more easy to remember and pronounce.

again, for your healthy skeptics please.

[roycheok]

quote:Originally posted by KY Foong

Isn't there a nice direct translation from the word "Betta" into some nice Chines words. I hate it when we get the name wrong. In my previous company someone from Japan registered the name PXXXX Industry Malaysia Parts.... which in short form is PIMP. Result, the guy was demoted for his initiative by not consulting others.


Alamak...demoted. I dun mind working for such a company leh...heheh

[roycheok]

ok. I am no expert in mandarin, infact I cant even write my chinese name in characters.....but how about mandarin translation of 'flaring' fish....whatever it is called.?[bt]

[Alex Lim]

quote:Originally posted by roycheok

ok. I am no expert in mandarin, infact I cant even write my chinese name in characters.....but how about mandarin translation of 'flaring' fish....whatever it is called.?[bt]


Roy,

the closest i can think of for flaring is "xuan4 yao4" - just the "xuan" alone.

[Chee Wei]

quote:Originally posted by Daniel Chia

"Da Jia Yu" (Hanyu Pinyin for Fighting Fish) already exists in the Chinese vocabulary. Perhaps "Guan Shang" (Hanyu Pinyin for Ornamental or Visual Appreciation) could be added.

"Guan Shang Da Jia Yu" (Hanyu Pinyin for Ornamental Fighting Fish) would indicate that the fish is of a different category (i.e. a category for visual appreciation).


Da Jia Yu is commonly used locally. Taiwanese call it 'duo yu' and hongkoners call it 'da yu'

[imported_n/a]

Hi All,

We call it.....http://www.geocities.com/bettaworld407/HomePage.html

Cheers!
Xavier

[Daniel Chia]

Found this Hong Kong website (forum page) about show bettas.

http://www.hkshowbetta.com/g1/

The Chinese characters for "show bettas" are...

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/Daniel%20Chia/200472920528_chinese.GIF

"zhan shi xing dou yu"

The Hongkongers have very nice bettas too.

[Myron Tay]

Thanks, Daniel.

Propose we adopt the Hong Kong version since this is the accepted term in Hong Kong.