Identification needed on maturing wild fish

[Abbey Wilkins]

I bought these fish after narrowly missing out on 4 B. imbellis that i was eyeing off. As these 2 were obviously a pair, i decided i would go for them and see how they turned out.

They were sold as B. smaragdina (Emerald Betta, but same deal here) and i do think that is what they are, but the body shape seems a little heavy-set for a pure strain.

They move like smaragdinas, very snake-like :)

As far as i can figure, they are about 6-8 months old. They were at the aquarium shop for 4 months and the supplier wouldnt sell them too small, so i cant be too far off. Do they look kind of like they are coming into adult colouration?

Exactly what are the females supposed to look like in adult colours?
I can only find male photographs.

I have them both in a 10L tank, filtered, heated (cold here!) and i have provided a pot for them to nest under if the desire takes them. The male is territorial, but the female holds her own ground. I am trying desperately to find more females and i am planning on a harem-type arrangement (not necessarily for breeding). How do you house yours?

I tried housing them in jars, but they moped and spent the whole time trying to get to one another. They seem much more content now.

Anyway, as this is a new species for me, i would appreciate any personal experience :)

thanks, Abbey.[33]

[Abbey Wilkins]

What i believe to be the male (he acts very 'male')

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/Abbey Wilkins/2004510195522_Betta M Smarag 2.jpg

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/Abbey Wilkins/2004510195854_Betta M - Smarag 1.jpg

And what i believe to be a female (she is certainly submissive enough)

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/Abbey Wilkins/200451020015_Betta F - Smarag 1.jpg

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/Abbey Wilkins/200451020044_Betta F - Smarag 2.jpg

[Daniel Chia]

quote:Originally posted by Abbey Wilkins

Exactly what are the females supposed to look like in adult colours?Hi Abbey,

Welcome to the forum.

I was flipping through my copy of Horst Linke's [u]Labyrinth Fish: Their identification, care and breeding</u> and found these pictures of a pair of Betta Smaragdinas.

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/Daniel%20Chia/2004510214834_Smaragdina.jpg

According to Dr Goldstein, author of [u]Bettas: A Complete Pet Owner's Manual</u>, the Betta Smaragdina possesses "... rows of green or blue iridescent scales on the flank, brilliant iridescence on the gill covers, and beautiful green and red finnage."

[Daniel Chia]

quote:Originally posted by Abbey Wilkins

What i believe to be the male (he acts very 'male')

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/Abbey Wilkins/2004510195522_Betta M Smarag 2.jpg Abbey,

The white spot under the belly looks like an ovipositor (egg-spot).

[David Esguerra]

I think that the white spot in the "male's" pic could be a lighting effect but then again, due to the coloration, I am also inclined to think that it is female as it is quite "dull" even for a wild smaragdina male. But then again I might be mistaken.

The females pic is definitely female though, ovipositor is quite apparent and she's actually a good female in my opinion.

But then again I have never kept smaragdina myself so what I have just said comes from what I have just read rather from personal experience.

[Lynn Tan]

Hello Abby,

Nice to have more ladies on board. Except for Betta Splendens, I've not had the opportunity to care for other bettas types.

I wonder if the dark stripes on your fish will stay. With those stripes, they don't look like the Betta Smaragdinas in Daniel's pictures. I might be wrong, but something tells that they belong to another betta type.

[Myron Tay]

Abbey

It looks more like betta edithae to me:

http://www.ibc-smp.org/species/edithae.html

Here's a breeding account:

http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=103424

[Abbey Wilkins]

Wow! lots of replies!

i did notice the ovipositor-looking thing on the aggressive one, but i'm not 100% convinced. there is such a marked difference in colouration and appearence. it seems to have most other male traits, territorialism, seeking nest spots, long ventrals, more impressive colour (i guess *lol*).

the only other wild pair i have kept was imbellis, and the male in that pairing displayed very very similar behaviour and i think has a slight white bump near his anus. Fortunately he is definately a "he" :)

It really only serves to confuse me more.


Does anyone have any pictures of juveniles? Or females?


I looked at the B. ethidae pic, the mouth seems quite different and the dorsal and tail are also not quite right. body shape is slightly off too, but i cant see exactly where. I'll have a good look at both soon, and see if i can find any other picture sources.

The fish are next to me now, and sitting here watching, the flashier one is quite green. the photo doesnt show the irridescence on the operculum and it has managed to bleach the body colouring a bit. Its a darker brown, still dusky, and has between 8-11 rows of green 'spots' on each side.
The fish has coloured up quite a bit since i got them, so i'm playing a bit of a waiting game to see how they turn out.

This is what the more colourful of the 2 looked like when it arrived.
http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/Abbey Wilkins/2004511105730_Smaragdina1.jpg

looks very 'girl' doesnt it? but see, if i dont know what juvies look like, i cant be sure that isnt normal juvie colouring. :(

not enough info on these wild fish :(

[Daniel Chia]

quote:Originally posted by Abbey Wilkins

I looked at the B. ethidae pic, the mouth seems quite different and the dorsal and tail are also not quite right. body shape is slightly off too, but i cant see exactly where. I'll have a good look at both soon, and see if i can find any other picture sources.Here's a few pictures for your reference

Top (Left): Betta renata from Sumatra
Top (Right): Betta waseri from Peninsular Malaysia
Bottom (Left): Betta edithae from Sumatra
Bottom (Right): Betta pica from Java

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/Daniel%20Chia/2004511113423_mouthbrooders.jpg

[Abbey Wilkins]

Hmmm, well after a few more weeks of colouring up, things are looking different.

Both are definately female, but VERY different, both in behaviour and colouration, there is even a size difference.

Could i be dealing with 2 separate species?

Of the pictures above, they could be edithae or wasari, but both look not quite right still...the striping is wrong, or the fin rays are wrong, or the body shape is wrong :( This is very irritating, I'd really love to know what i have ended up with.

[Abbey Wilkins]

Hmmm, well after a few more weeks of colouring up, things are looking different.

Both are definately female, but VERY different, both in behaviour and colouration, there is even a size difference.

Could i be dealing with 2 separate species?

Of the pictures above, they could be edithae or wasari, but both look not quite right still...the striping is wrong, or the fin rays are wrong, or the body shape is wrong :( This is very irritating, I'd really love to know what i have ended up with.

[Daniel Chia]

Hi Abbey,

The Betta edithae is decribed by Gene Wolfsheimer, author of [u]The Guide to Owning Bettas</u> as a "little wild betta". It is similarly described by Horst Linke, author of [u]Labyrinth Fish</u>, as a "small species". However, Dr Robert Goldstein, author of [u]Betta: A Complete Pet Owner's Manual</u>, highlighted that the Betta edithae "...probably consists of more than one species". This is because of "...its wide distribution in Borneo and Sumatra".

As for the Betta waseri, Dr Robert Goldstein reported that the species is divided into sub-groups (e.g. Betta renata, Betta pi, Betta chloropharynx, etc.), characterised by different colour zonation of the eyes, throat and lower jaw patterns.

I understand your frustration. Perhaps you could post pictures of your bettas from the front (i.e. at their 1 o'clock or 11 o'clock). This would enable the features around the eyes, throat and lower jaw to be seen more clearly. With more pictures, maybe those people of this forum who are more experience with wild bettas can assist you with the identification your fish.

It would also be good if the title of the thread be changed to e.g. "Identification of Wild Bettas".

[Daniel Chia]

Hi Abbey,

The Betta edithae is decribed by Gene Wolfsheimer, author of [u]The Guide to Owning Bettas</u> as a "little wild betta". It is similarly described by Horst Linke, author of [u]Labyrinth Fish</u>, as a "small species". However, Dr Robert Goldstein, author of [u]Betta: A Complete Pet Owner's Manual</u>, highlighted that the Betta edithae "...probably consists of more than one species". This is because of "...its wide distribution in Borneo and Sumatra".

As for the Betta waseri, Dr Robert Goldstein reported that the species is divided into sub-groups (e.g. Betta renata, Betta pi, Betta chloropharynx, etc.), characterised by different colour zonation of the eyes, throat and lower jaw patterns.

I understand your frustration. Perhaps you could post pictures of your bettas from the front (i.e. at their 1 o'clock or 11 o'clock). This would enable the features around the eyes, throat and lower jaw to be seen more clearly. With more pictures, maybe those people of this forum who are more experience with wild bettas can assist you with the identification your fish.

It would also be good if the title of the thread be changed to e.g. "Identification of Wild Bettas".

[SimonLiew]

Abbey,

I would think Myron is correct.

Simon

[SimonLiew]

Abbey,

I would think Myron is correct.

Simon

[Daniel Chia]

Hi Simon,

The fish with shorter ventrals does look like a Betta edithae. I'm not sure about the other one.

Have you been going into the wilderness in your 4x4 to find wild bettas? Any recent finds?

[Daniel Chia]

Hi Simon,

The fish with shorter ventrals does look like a Betta edithae. I'm not sure about the other one.

Have you been going into the wilderness in your 4x4 to find wild bettas? Any recent finds?

[Abbey Wilkins]

I have just moved house and in the process my photo tank crashed, so i will endeavour to get a new one so i can get accurate pictures of the jaw markings.

This is driving me nuts. Now i have possibly 3 separate species which i can't do anything with! *tantrum*
How hard is it to get a pair of the same species!? *pulls hair out*

Thankyou all for bearing with me through this. I would be much less sceptical if the species were well, more widely documented and photographed. Its hard to make a positive ID of a paragraph of into and 4 photos, especially if there are regional variations involved.

[Myron Tay]

More pictures of wild fish from the betta family here:

http://www.arofanatics.com/members/destwk76/wildbetta/