betta fins thinning and with pin holes

[josephyip]

hello,

5 of my bettas are having the above problem recently(at least a month). i have always changed at least 20% water every 2 days for all of them, and siphon out any waste and leftover food.

i use the following in my water;
1) tetra aquasafe n aquasafe nh/cl formula
2) aged water with ketapang leaves.
3) salt

so far i have administer melafix n more water changes for them. but their conditions dont seem to improve.

i have even increase the doseage of the aquasafe nh/cl formula.

i did a water test which indicates that my water is too "soft".

could tat b the problem??

any suggestions are welcome, cause i am not sure wat to do next.

thank you

kum kum

[David Esguerra]

If you could get one of those mineral supplements for water, that would help, specifically calcium for the pin holes. However, I don't know where you could get them in Singapore, I get mine from the local pharmacy. I'd take out the salt if I were you, its unnecessary stress for the fish though it would indeed help your water hardness only a little bit if your using NaCl with impurities (i.e. rock salt)

[David Esguerra]

BTW, its not the softness of the water itself that is the problem but rather the possible abscens (sorry for the spelling) of minerals in the water which the fish need as they absorb some minerals from the water (like calcium and magnesium). Soft water usually means (note, usually, not always) that the water almost has no minerals in it so addition of mineral supplements could indeed help.

[Daniel Chia]

The "pin holes" can be treated with Potassium Permaganate (PP), a very potent disinfectant that should be diluted properly before being used as a bath (i.e. for the fish to swim in it for a short while).

PP comes in the form of purple crystals and can be purchased from pharmacies. It is usually used to treat infected skin conditions (eg. foot rot) in humans. To use it as a bath for your fish, do ensure that it is diluted till the water is very light purple because you just want to kill the organism that's causing the holes in the fins and not to kill the fish.

After treatment, the fish should return to a clean tank of water.

[wanshi]

What actually causes this disease?
Is it something similar to finrot?

[David Esguerra]

That's the problem, pin holes is not always a disease, in another forum, it was the consensus that it was nutritional (note, the consensus, meaning most were in agreement that it was nutritional, not necessarily or at least not yet porven as fact)

PP is a very powerful disinfectant, I would just have to note that it is best to use it with some aeration aside from it being dissolved first. It is also very reactive so if you buy to much of it, store it in a cool, dry, dark place.

Some have said that melafix clears it up, I haven't had pinholes like the ones you get (i.e. spontaneously appearing), my pinholes are usually from breeding injuries (of course, not really pinholes but rather holes and not tears on the fins).

[Daniel Chia]

Melafix is an anti-bacterial remedy. If the condition (i.e. holes-in-fins) doesn't clear up after treatment with Melafix, the cause is likely to be of fungal origin. This is why I'm suggesting Potassium Permaganate (PP). However, as mentioned earlier, PP is very strong stuff. So, do ensure do ensure that it is diluted till the water is very light purple before putting your fish in for a quick dip.

[Myron Tay]

Agree with David. Think it is more a nutritional issue. What are you feeding your bettas, Joseph?

[Daniel Chia]

Certain minerals already exist in the our tap water. So, adding mineral supplements is not really necessary in Singapore.

To reduce the "softness" of the water, try reducing the amount of salt added to the water.

[David Esguerra]

Does Sodium Chloride/NaCl/common salt (would have said table but we know that it would be false) soften water? Didn't know that, is it really true?

[josephyip]

hello,

thanks for all the responds.

as for fish food, i feed the following to my bettas(twice a day);

1) blood worms/tubi very first of the month
2) bbs very end of the month
3) hikari bio-gold on mondays
4) frozen daphnia on tuesday
5) tetra bettamin mixed with tropical spirulina flakes on wednesday
6) betta pellets bought from betta club during the recent fish show at expo on thursday
7) frozen bbs on friday
8) az00 betta pellets on saturday
9) on sundays i feed them nothing, sort of let their system take a rest

hope i am not feeding my bettas with too many varities, am i?? but all my 16 bettas eat the same food, so far only 5 got tis problem.

as for the pp treatment, i may use it as the last resort cause i read tat it is very strong. i am worry tat it may do more harm than good to my bettas.

if there is a possible lack of minerals in my water, can i add shells to my pail of aged water? is there any test kits tat i can test for minerals in the water??

i am doing 100% water change for all my bettas and adding more ketapang leaves to my aged water to study what would be the result.

will need your suggestions again if the condition did not improve.

thank you

joseph yip

[Eugene]

Hi Mr Kum Kum,

Questions...questions and more questions for yer!! heheh...

Are your fish eating well and are they stout or are they thin and inactive
you mentioned that you siphon off any unfinished food and waste...and change 20% of the water...
How large are your containers? Do you do complete or near complete water changes at the end of the week or at any point in time?

Sayonara till later...
Euge

[Daniel Chia]

quote:Originally posted by David Esguerra

Does Sodium Chloride/NaCl/common salt (would have said table but we know that it would be false) soften water? Didn't know that, is it really true?
Sodium and potassium softens water.
Calcium and magnesium hardens water. Cheers. [ber]

[David Esguerra]

I have yet to hear of a betta being fed a "too varied diet", I think your doing fine in the feeding area.

Possibly some minerals in the water (possibly as I am not really sure).

Also, some fish have genetically weak fin webbing, hence much more prone to such problems as physical fin tearing (i.e. not caused by disease), pin holes (which we are not yet sure if it is really a disease of a nutritional or physical condition) and fin blowing (a problem that I think is genetic, though this is non conclusive).

[Daniel Chia]

quote:Originally posted by josephyip
i feed the following to my bettas(twice a day);

1) blood worms/tubi very first of the month
2) bbs very end of the month
3) hikari bio-gold on mondays
4) frozen daphnia on tuesday
5) tetra bettamin mixed with tropical spirulina flakes on wednesday
6) betta pellets bought from betta club during the recent fish show at expo on thursday
7) frozen bbs on friday
8) az00 betta pellets on saturday
9) on sundays i feed them nothing, sort of let their system take a restWow! Joseph, I must say that you really put in extremely good effort to ensure that your bettas are well nourished. However, do be mindful that some of the food (especially live food) can introduce organisms (i.e. bacteria, fungus, virus, etc.) to your fish.

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by josephyip

hello,

thanks for all the responds.

as for fish food, i feed the following to my bettas(twice a day);

1) blood worms/tubi very first of the month
2) bbs very end of the month
3) hikari bio-gold on mondays
4) frozen daphnia on tuesday
5) tetra bettamin mixed with tropical spirulina flakes on wednesday
6) betta pellets bought from betta club during the recent fish show at expo on thursday
7) frozen bbs on friday
8) az00 betta pellets on saturday
9) on sundays i feed them nothing, sort of let their system take a rest

hope i am not feeding my bettas with too many varities, am i?? but all my 16 bettas eat the same food, so far only 5 got tis problem.

as for the pp treatment, i may use it as the last resort cause i read tat it is very strong. i am worry tat it may do more harm than good to my bettas.

if there is a possible lack of minerals in my water, can i add shells to my pail of aged water? is there any test kits tat i can test for minerals in the water??

i am doing 100% water change for all my bettas and adding more ketapang leaves to my aged water to study what would be the result.

will need your suggestions again if the condition did not improve.

thank you

joseph yip
Good varied diet, Joseph, so I am wrong in my original assessment. What size containers do you keep your bettas in?

[josephyip]

hello Euge,

my fish are eating well. i feed them only small portions.eg 4 hikari pellets per meal. if they can finish their food within the few minutes, i would add in a tiny bit more(1-2 pellets). i dare not feed too much least they got swim bladder problem later.

yes my bettas r active, i let them flare abt 1 hr before every meal.

i use a mix of nisso tanks n other glass tanks. their volume is abt 4L. change their water 20%-30% every 2 days for those not on medication, those with med 50% change. i seldom do 100% water(the most 80-90%) cause i try not to take out the fish.

quote:Originally posted by Eugene

Hi Mr Kum Kum,

Questions...questions and more questions for yer!! heheh...

Are your fish eating well and are they stout or are they thin and inactive
you mentioned that you siphon off any unfinished food and waste...and change 20% of the water...
How large are your containers? Do you do complete or near complete water changes at the end of the week or at any point in time?

Sayonara till later...
Euge

[josephyip]

quote:Wow! Joseph, I must say that you really put in extremely good effort to ensure that your bettas are well nourished. However, do be mindful that some of the food (especially live food) can introduce organisms (i.e. bacteria, fungus, virus, etc.) to your fish.


hello,

thx for ur advice. i read from forums tat these worms can cause some nasty illness. but their r also a good source of fat or protein(something like tat).

so i just rinse them with some aged water before i feed them to the fishes. then nxt 2 days i stared hard at them to observe for any sight of infection. touch wood so far nothing much.

thx

joseph yip

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by josephyip

i use a mix of nisso tanks n other glass tanks. their volume is abt 4L. change their water 20%-30% every 2 days for those not on medication, those with med 50% change. i seldom do 100% water(the most 80-90%) cause i try not to take out the fish.
Joseph

I have found that Nisso tanks are not good enough if you do only partial water changes every other day and especially if you use live foods. Need bigger tanks and 100% water change once a while (once a month or so) to get rid of all the debris in the tank (which tend to accumulate after a while as you can't siphon out all the debris). If you choose to use Nissos and live food, another option is to do 100% water changes every day (something that I have not tired out myself I must admit).

[Daniel Chia]

quote:Originally posted by josephyip
i am doing 100% water change for all my bettas and adding more ketapang leaves to my aged water to study what would be the result.
Do update us on the pin holes. May your bettas get well soon.

[josephyip]

quote:I have found that Nisso tanks are not good enough if you do only partial water changes every other day and especially if you use live foods. Need bigger tanks and 100% water change once a while (once a month or so) to get rid of all the debris in the tank (which tend to accumulate after a while as you can't siphon out all the debris). If you choose to use Nissos and live food, another option is to do 100% water changes every day (something that I have not tired out myself I must admit).


hello,

would 100% water change everyday be too stressful for the fish. for one, i know i'll be stress...haha. but i am thinking ur suggestion of 100% water change once a month, in addition of the 20% water every 2 days.

in tis light, should i deduce tat my water chemistry is ok, even though it is "soft". but i need to do more 100% water changes??

i even bought i bottle of oceanfree's multi-vitamins complex solution which i intend to add into the tanks once a week.

should i add shells as well(for calcium)??

thank you

joseph yip

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by josephyip
i even bought i bottle of oceanfree's multi-vitamins complex solution which i intend to add into the tanks once a week.

should i add shells as well(for calcium)??
Joseph

Adding shells would spike the pH upwards. Adding more stuff to the water would increase the osmotic pressures found in your tank to unnatural levels. Am trying out running aged water through peat moss without any water conditioners myself. More on the following thread:

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1775

[josephyip]

quote:Adding shells would spike the pH upwards. Adding more stuff to the water would increase the osmotic pressures found in your tank to unnatural levels. Am trying out running aged water through peat moss without any water conditioners myself. More on the following thread:

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1775


hello,

how abt adding increasing the kh/gh of my water?? read in other forum tat increase gh would harden the scales of the fish. would it harden the fins as well, make it less prone to thining or pinhole??

i have ocean free gh+. never use it though.

thank you

joseph yip

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by josephyip

hello,

how abt adding increasing the kh/gh of my water?? read in other forum tat increase gh would harden the scales of the fish. would it harden the fins as well, make it less prone to thining or pinhole??

i have ocean free gh+. never use it though.

thank you

joseph yip

Joseph

Never tried it myself. Keep us posted?

[Eugene]

Hey Joe,

Am thoroughly impressed with your fish diet....heheheh

I suggest the teh tarik method of straits (fast and quick, perhaps it helps not to prolong the agony and stress by chasing the fish around with a net) just pour out all water, catch the fish, rinse container fast and refill with aged water....and do complete water change every few days if you want to continue with your nisso tanks....

Maybe a little more food....just slightly....and observe if they finish.
Good luck !!

[Lynn Tan]

quote:Originally posted by Daniel Chia

Melafix is an anti-bacterial remedy. If the condition (i.e. holes-in-fins) doesn't clear up after treatment with Melafix, the cause is likely to be of fungal origin. This is why I'm suggesting Potassium Permaganate (PP). However, as mentioned earlier, PP is very strong stuff. So, do ensure do ensure that it is diluted till the water is very light purple before putting your fish in for a quick dip.
Daniel,
I had a look at the Melafix packaging and it mentioned that it's effective against mouth fungus. So, isn't Melafix also anti-fungal? [cnf]

[Daniel Chia]

quote:Originally posted by Lynn Tan
I had a look at the Melafix packaging and it mentioned that it's effective against mouth fungus. So, isn't Melafix also anti-fungal? [cnf]Hi Lynn,

Melafix can indeed be used to treat Mouth "Fungus" or Mouth Rot. However, it should be noted that Mouth "Fungus" is actually a fungus-like bacteria known as Flexibacter Columnaris. So, Melafix is very much an anti-bacterial remedy.

The literature inside the box also states that Melafix is for the treatment of bacterial infections to prevent secondary infections like fungal infections.

[Lynn Tan]

I see. So PP is an anti-fungal?

[Daniel Chia]

quote:Originally posted by Lynn Tan

I see. So PP is an anti-fungal?
Not exactly. It's more like a disinfectant that's used as a bath.

[Daniel Chia]

Hi folks,

For those who wish to find out more about Potassium Permanganate (PP), here's an article about its use in the control of external infections in ornamental fish.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA027

[David Esguerra]

Aside from the link posted by Daniel, let me just note that such meds such as tetracycline, methylene blue, formalin, hydrogen peroxide, malachite green and the above mentioned Potassium permanganate and even common salt are not limited to "anti-____" only but are pretty much anti everything. At the proper dosage, these meds could even be anti fish

[josephyip]

hello,
what are the sign to observe when we might have used too much salt? in such instances would it help if we alternate the use of salt when changing water?

thx
joseph

[Daniel Chia]

Hello, Joseph,

So much for advice given. How are your fish? Pin holes still there?

[Daniel Chia]

quote:Originally posted by josephyip
so i just rinse them with some aged water before i feed them to the fishes. then nxt 2 days i stared hard at them to observe for any sight of infection. touch wood so far nothing much.
Hello again, Joseph,

The following thread is on the cleaning of live stuff before they are fed to the fish.

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=475

[Myron Tay]

Good to link this thread with the other one:

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=351

Won't you agree Daniel?

[Daniel Chia]

I agree with you 100 percent, Myron.

I'm sure Foo Hong's interesting response would have a positive effect.quote:Originally posted by Foo Hong
The holes have kekeke:D:D:D...recovered..:D:D:Dkekeke

So happy I just cant :D:Dkekeke...stop laughing kekeke:Dke:D:D

[Silas Khor]

Interesting thread, and coincidentally, my betta is suffering from the same "pin-hole" symptoms on his caudal. Well, now it's spread to his dorsal to. There weren't any pinholes on his dorsal on inspection two days ago. I've tried melafix to no avail, I've resorted to Interpet No.8 AntiFungus & Finrot. I'll be dosing tonight, bettas jarred individually in a heated tank, regular water changes. I'll post the results, as soon as there is a noted improvement to his condition.
So far, it's gotten to the point where some of the holes may be merging to create larger cavities. Furthermore, a few rays seem snapped like a twig. A very alarming condition.
In the meantime, more suggestions are very welcome...

[Daniel Chia]

quote:Originally posted by Silas Khor

So far, it's gotten to the point where some of the holes may be merging to create larger cavities. Furthermore, a few rays seem snapped like a twig. A very alarming condition.
Silas,

Your betta's condition does sound very alarming (and scary). Hope the anti-fungus will work. Do update us on it's response to the medication. Good luck!

[josephyip]

quote:Originally posted by Daniel Chia

Hello, Joseph,

So much for advice given. How are your fish? Pin holes still there?


hello,

have increase the dosage of the water conditioners n put more ketapang leaves, salt.

not very obvious improvement at the moment. setup another pail of aged water just for those five bettas for their daily water.

now i change 50% water daily for those affected, n a dose of melafix.those not affected got their tanks clean n scrub.

will update u people on the outcome,ealiest next week.

thx

joseph

[Lynn Tan]

quote:Originally posted by josephyip

now i change 50% water daily for those affected, n a dose of melafix.those not affected got their tanks clean n scrub.
Personally, I believe that if the fish is infected, there is no point to just keep changing the water, scrubbing the tanks, etc. because the germs will still be there and the cleaning and scrubbing won't kill them. It will only result in cleaned and well-scrubbed germs.

Why Melafix? Is it because you still think the holes are caused by bacteria? Better to use the correct medication to kill the germs before their eat up the fins to create larger holes or cavities - like in Silas' case.

[josephyip]

hello,

the purpose of changing water is to keep the water clean at least, while attempting to maintain water parameters constant. It is also to prevent other infections from setting in. i would complete the dosage of melafix for seven days before changing med.

dont think it is advisable to keep adding med without changing water. the accumulated dosage of the med may be too much for the betta to bear. there will also be a very strong med smell in your water.

thx
joseph

[Daniel Chia]

Lynn,

You've brought up some interesting pointers about combating germs. This is indeed Germ Warfare and I would like to quote Sun Tze who once taught:

"If you know your enemy as well as you know yourself, you will win a hundred battles."

[Daniel Chia]

Joseph,

Melafix can effectively repair fin damage if the cause is bacterial. I have had some positive experience with its use (see following thread).

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2250

However, if you suspect that Melafix is not working (i.e. no obvious signs of improvement after 2 or 3 days), it would be advisable to change medication. Afterall, Melafix is not an antibiotic and the fish does not need to finish a complete course of the medication.

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by Silas Khor

Interesting thread, and coincidentally, my betta is suffering from the same "pin-hole" symptoms on his caudal. Well, now it's spread to his dorsal to. There weren't any pinholes on his dorsal on inspection two days ago. I've tried melafix to no avail, I've resorted to Interpet No.8 AntiFungus & Finrot. I'll be dosing tonight, bettas jarred individually in a heated tank, regular water changes. I'll post the results, as soon as there is a noted improvement to his condition.
So far, it's gotten to the point where some of the holes may be merging to create larger cavities. Furthermore, a few rays seem snapped like a twig. A very alarming condition.
In the meantime, more suggestions are very welcome...
Silas

Keep the water in the tank clean, put in blackwater and feed the fish well. Keep us posted.

[Lynn Tan]

From the "kekeke :D:D:D" response of a happy user of PP and the various input, I'll be getting a bottle of PP from the pharmacy this weekend.

Will be able to use it on my husband in case he gets foot rot and on my fish if they get pin holes.

[Daniel Chia]

quote:Originally posted by Lynn Tan

From the "kekeke :D:D:D" response of a happy user of PP and the various input, I'll be getting a bottle of PP from the pharmacy this weekend.

Will be able to use it on my husband in case he gets foot rot and on my fish if they get pin holes.
Killing 2 birds with 1 stone? Do be careful about storing the stuff.

[Silas Khor]

Found another of my bettas with the beginnings of pinholes!
This is very upsetting. Furthermore the ray branches have the same broken/'snapped' look...
I've been treating the first victim with Interpet 8 Fungus & Finrot for the required time... What I observe is whilst the pinholes haven't healed, it has at least halted the spread.
I have at last resorted to using PP. Bought a vial at the pharmacy in crystal form. The last thing I need is an outbreak of pinholes.
Can I leave the bettas in the pp solution? Light pink, right?

[David Esguerra]

Isn't it light purple for PP?

I suggest that you never use PP without any form of aeration, the chemical reaction required for it to work involves oxygen. As for them being left there, I think that it is fine for a day. Then just tone down the treatment through your regular dose of water changes. However this is how I use PP, I don't know if this would also be the same if your treating for pinholes as I have so far not encountered the problem in my fish.

On that note, it could be possible that pinholes are in some way genetic... just a theory though.

[Daniel Chia]

quote:Originally posted by Silas Khor

Found another of my bettas with the beginnings of pinholes!
This is very upsetting. Furthermore the ray branches have the same broken/'snapped' look...
I've been treating the first victim with Interpet 8 Fungus & Finrot for the required time... What I observe is whilst the pinholes haven't healed, it has at least halted the spread.
I have at last resorted to using PP. Bought a vial at the pharmacy in crystal form. The last thing I need is an outbreak of pinholes.
Can I leave the bettas in the pp solution? Light pink, right? Hi Silas,

Dilute till the water is very light purple before putting your fish in for a quick dip (i.e. a short swim). After that, return the fish to a clean tank of water.

To prevent disease spread, disinfect all shared articles (e.g. Betta Scoop, Pipette, Droppers, Siphon Tubings, etc.). If possible, have 2 sets (1 for sick bettas and 1 for healthy bettas).

[Silas Khor]

I dipped my fish in for about 15 mins in diluted pp, during which I disinfected all their containers and tanks, changed 100% of the water and after replacing them used a pipette to drop in light pink/purple drops in their water. So far the situation is much improved, however I don't think PP can cure the snapped branching. No flaring for awhile.
This really burns me up! [bh]

[Silas Khor]

Thanks for all the advice and steps given...[gd]

[Daniel Chia]

quote:Originally posted by Silas Khor

Thanks for all the advice and steps given...[gd]
No worries, Silas. Take care and may your bettas get well soon.

[Silas Khor]

Found an interesting link about broken rays, it's for koi, but I think it applies.
http://www.koivet.com/html/glossary/faq_details.php?faqId=2559
Maybe this calls for a separate thread exclusively for brokens rays.

[josephyip]

hello,

just an update of my bettas pin holes.

the pin holes are gone for now, but some of the fishes end up with "jagged" fins, triangular-shaped like nips on the fins, esp the caudal. not sure what cause it..2 of my fishes got "snapped-rays"(or whatever you ppl calls it).

and one of my hm bite his own tail. a beautiful hm becomes a plakat.

anyway, i would like to thank those who have offered their invaluable advice.

thx

joseph

[Daniel Chia]

quote:Originally posted by Silas Khor

Found an interesting link about broken rays, it's for koi, but I think it applies.
http://www.koivet.com/html/glossary/faq_details.php?faqId=2559
Maybe this calls for a separate thread exclusively for brokens rays.
I agree, Silas. You could join the following thread on the topic of Caudal Rays Snapping / Broken Rays.

http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=352

[Daniel Chia]

quote:Originally posted by josephyip

i would like to thank those who have offered their invaluable advice.Thank you for starting this thread, Joseph. Thanks also to those who participated in the discussion. You have all shown keen interest in this topic by asking very interesting questions and trying your best to come up with the answers. It is this form of interaction that makes this forum a great place for betta lovers to share their concerns and passion for this interesting fish.

[Myron Tay]

Joseph

Could you repeat to us what you have changed to get rid of this problem? Have you had similar problems since?

[Myron Tay]

Joseph

Could you repeat to us what you have changed to get rid of this problem? Have you had similar problems since?

[sylwester]

I remember having pin-holes with mye early bettas. These naturally went away with regular water changes but I haven't had any similar cases in some time.

My water is very soft (KH~0,GH~0) and so I add a little natron and calc to increase these. All these are salts but not NaCl (normal table/sea salt). I use NaCl only to treat diseases and then very low consentration (as 1 tea spoon/10l in the breeding tank) and never under normal circumstances. The bettas are not salt water fish and they do not have the nescessary cell membrane to 'keep intact' when they have too much salt. They do however get nutrition though water too and strangly I haven't had any problems with holes after the fish got calc and natron. Before adding stuff one should know what kind of water one has and be very careful with plain table salt.

[sylwester]

I remember having pin-holes with mye early bettas. These naturally went away with regular water changes but I haven't had any similar cases in some time.

My water is very soft (KH~0,GH~0) and so I add a little natron and calc to increase these. All these are salts but not NaCl (normal table/sea salt). I use NaCl only to treat diseases and then very low consentration (as 1 tea spoon/10l in the breeding tank) and never under normal circumstances. The bettas are not salt water fish and they do not have the nescessary cell membrane to 'keep intact' when they have too much salt. They do however get nutrition though water too and strangly I haven't had any problems with holes after the fish got calc and natron. Before adding stuff one should know what kind of water one has and be very careful with plain table salt.

[Ramon]

Hello,

recognized that some of my beloved jevenile betta show pinholes as well. Tried to take a picture, but my skills are [cr]


http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/uploaded/ramon/2005426153142_pinhole.jpg

I do not think that this is caused by bacteria/fungus or whatsoever.

Taking a magnifying glass it really looks lioke the holes have been apllied with a needle.

On a recent spawn I had the same problems about 4 weeks after seperating them. Now, they are adult and you can not see that there was a hole, but it is annoying anyway.

Will try what Sylwester suggested, Natron and Calc. Gotta find out what the tropic marin salt I use for my chichlids contains, since we do have very soft water here as well.

Never heard of these problems from people with hard water...

Cheers
Ramon