Microworms cause ventralless bettas?

[Foo Hong]

Kept hearing that MWs causes ventraless bettas. Personally, I had no experience of ventraless bettas though I used MWs very very moderately.

Those who had such experience care to share and why do you think MWs is/is not the cause.

[Samuel Phan]

Seems like I am the best person to share the "experience" here. =P

Yes ... when I first started with betta keeping ... my initial few spawns almost always ended up without the ventrals.

It is really very discouraging but luckily I was awarded with subsequent spawns that are okie after getting advices from pple that actively contributed to the forums.

Ok ... My guess on the causes of ventral-less fishes:
- Microworms
- Black-water Extracts (Not Ketapang)
- Poor Water Condition

Initially microworms seems to be the main culprit for causing such abnormalities but later experiments proves that with frequent water change, the fries do not suffer from such problems. Thus the trick is to refrain from excessively feeding using only microworms as uneaten worms do not survive long in water and thus foul the water when dead.

Also, if there are too many worms at the bottom of the tank, chances that they might just chew on the budding ventrals at the base of the fries when the fries rest at the tank bottom. So another trick is to feed free-swimming fry food like BBS and daphnias which will encourage the fries to swim to the top rather than resting at the bottom.

Next is the Black-water extract ... not too sure on this but there are pple with bad experience when using it. But I supposed it all boils down to the cleaniness of the tank.

Finally, water condition ... try to maintain good water condition for the grow-out tank ... it is crucial for the ventral growth and the general health of the fish.

If the water condition is lousy ... sometimes you will still get the ventrals on the fishes ... but they tend to look shorter and kinda stumpy.

Now that I stick to some of the guidelines that I discovered ... the "missing ventrals" syndrome no longer occurs.

With Best Regards,
Samuel Phan

[Foo Hong]

Ha! had a 3 week old irids spawn[almost 200]....size bit smaller than usual due to a 1st week being entirely on microworms diet. Just scooped a few out and checked under a strong torchlight......................Sam...they got ventrals!

[Foo Hong]

Ha! had a 3 week old irids spawn[almost 200]....size bit smaller than usual due to a 1st week being entirely on microworms diet. Just scooped a few out and checked under a strong torchlight......................Sam...they got ventrals!

[Samuel Phan]

Lucky you ... anyway ... if you try using MW about 1 month since the hatching ... and dun change water ... and overfeed with MW ... I am sure the fries will have zero ventrals ... =(

But please dun try lah ... not worth it ...

quote:
Ha! had a 3 week old irids spawn[almost 200]....size bit smaller than usual due to a 1st week being entirely on microworms diet. Just scooped a few out and checked under a strong torchlight......................Sam...they got ventrals!

[Samuel Phan]

Lucky you ... anyway ... if you try using MW about 1 month since the hatching ... and dun change water ... and overfeed with MW ... I am sure the fries will have zero ventrals ... =(

But please dun try lah ... not worth it ...

quote:
Ha! had a 3 week old irids spawn[almost 200]....size bit smaller than usual due to a 1st week being entirely on microworms diet. Just scooped a few out and checked under a strong torchlight......................Sam...they got ventrals!

[Myron Tay]

A good discussion in the following thread:

http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1768373

[Eve Tan]

hmm.. i heard about that too.. fed my fries with MW for abt 4 to 5 weeks, not as a stable food, but fed quite many too them.. until now, dun reali see any problem arise so not sure if its true.

[Alex Lim]

i've inspected Eve's fries and so far, ruled out any of ventral-less cases. i do not think MWs are the culprit based on her experience. i would like to think it is due to a combination of factors such as the amount of chemical dosage present in the water prior to hatching or after hatching. can't think of food been the cause of such deformaties.

[Myron Tay]

quote:Originally posted by Alex Lim

Hi all,

i would like to reiterate my stand that MWs does not cause ventral-less problems. it makes no sense that this nematode can cause physical problems like this. A discussion with Uncle Foong yesterday further strengthens my belief in this. He reveals that the missing ventrals is probably caused by bacteria that accumulates due to rotting of dead MWs. Other situations that accumulates excess bacteria should pose similar problems. so the key is still good clean water to prevent this problem. i have not encounter this problem on using MWs. Just my own limited opinion. anyone has empirical research / ample experience, please share?

interesting discussion on arro regarding MWs. hope this dispels the myth of MWs causing VT-less problems. but i have to admit they are somehow linked through bacteria bloom reason. pardon me for mentioning that MWs does not affect at all. [bt][bt][bt]

http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/showthread.php?s=f2862510bf760b38c217882093d42358&threadid=96109&perpage=10&pagenumber=1quote:Originally posted by Silas Khor

Alvin,

The claims are that microworms cause fry to stay at the bottom at the tank, supposedly resulting in stunted growth of ventrals. The logic of this claim is questionable, however these are based on experience, if I recall correctly.quote:Originally posted by Alex Lim

Silas,

MWs normally are active at the bottom of the tank. with abundance, fries will stay at the bottom of the tank. reason is easy to get food. note that if you feed daphnia, the fellas will stay at the surface of the water because that's where the boons hang about, assuming light source is at top of tank. i'm not sure about stunted growth of ventrals.. actually i'm confused? or do you actually mean ventral-less?

if the bottom of your tank is dirty, the bacteria and all the crap will "corrode" off the ventrals. also, i'm beginning to realise that the built up of nitrite and nitrate which is highest at the botton of the tank due to waste buildup may also be a reason for ventral-less cases. can't confirm. just pure speculation. just had a couple of ventral-less cases. but i'm sticking to my guns that feeding of MWs is not the direct cause, till further evidence/experiment prove otherwise [be]quote:Originally posted by Silas Khor

Alex, thanks for the clarification.
The fact that you've had actual cases draws more attention to the speculation that nitrites and nitrates may actually be corroding the ventrals.quote:Originally posted by Alex Lim

Silas,

no problem~ just sharing my limited knowledge. hope more people can contribute to this to give a more all-rounded discussion.

cheers

[Myron Tay]

Related thread: http://www.bettaclub.org.sg/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1515